In universe... Why would Romulans need Klingon ship designs?

[Commishsleer]

Exactly. It's sort of hard to believe that she's a DCF female character. She fixates on Spock from the moment she first sees him on a viewscreen, and from that point forward, almost everything she does revolves around her immediate romantic/sexual fascination with him. That includes willingly committing suicide (she thinks) by grabbing him as he beams out!

And then we have this: What were Kirk and Spock going to do if the commander had been a straight male, or a gay female, or someone not willing to be instantly seduced by an enemy officer? Oof. I'll sort all this out while my turbolift car takes about two minutes to get from the bridge to Deck Two.

It doesn't make any sense for this episode to rely on Spock seducing the Commander. Maybe they made this up on the fly.

For me to make this episode make any sense Starfleet Intelligence would have had to spread the rumour to the Romulan Empire that Spock was unhappy, that he was upset by not being offered a captaincy, that he was sick of being second banana to the often irrational Kirk.
Maybe Romulan Intelligence set the female Romulan Commander out to keep any eye on the Enterprise as it skirted their borders hoping she maybe had a better chance with the seemingly 'disaffected' Spock.
I actually think she was more interested in the Enterprise than Spock and was using him like Bond used the ladies. She probably got a little overinvested personally not being as good in the spy business as our heroes who admittedly weren't that heroic in this episode.

 

[Phaser Two]

What if Kirk headed to that sector on intelligence that she was the commander and that she had a crush on Spock?

That's some intelligence!

Some dialogue to establish such an unlikely premise was almost certainly needed.

 

[Samuel]

In Diane Duane's "Sword Hunt" novels which began basically IIRC with "My Enemy, My Ally", Ael, the Romulan character in the story (and the aunt of the Enterprise Incident's Romulan Commander) characterized the "Klingon/Romulan Alliance" as "the Klingons agree not to go to war (with the Romulans) if the Romulans purchase a specified number of ships each year".

In short, the Klingons basically blackmailed the Romulans.

I know. Not canon. Still interesting.

 

[Dukhat]

Exactly. It's sort of hard to believe that she's a DCF female character. She fixates on Spock from the moment she first sees him on a viewscreen, and from that point forward, almost everything she does revolves around her immediate romantic/sexual fascination with him. That includes willingly committing suicide (she thinks) by grabbing him as he beams out!

Well, it's just par for the course with the absolutely abysmal treatment of women in TOS.

 

[Christopher]

Well, it's just par for the course with the absolutely abysmal treatment of women in TOS.

That just shows how far we've come, since at the time, it was seen as very progressive in its treatment of women. The first generation of Trek fans -- especially fanfiction writers, convention organizers, and the like -- was overwhelmingly female, because they saw it as so empowering.

Although I've realized that in a lot of early fan and pro Trek fiction, the writers were trying to improve on what little TOS did in that respect. People make fun of "Mary Sue" stories with author-insertion heroines, but we forget that the term originally referred only to the bad examples of a larger practice. After all, lots of TOS episodes did center on guest-star characters, like many TV dramas in those days that aspired to an anthology-like flavor, so it was natural that a lot of the tie-in and fan fiction would too. And many of those works focused on female guest characters to try to redress the gender imbalance in the TOS main cast. Also, particularly in stories about the "Enterprise Incident" commander, there was a tendency to write her as far more impressive and powerful than she actually was in the episode. The writers may have recognized the potential she represented -- just showing a female character as a fleet commander was a really big deal -- but still seen room for improvement in the execution.

So it's like they appreciated TOS for the door it cracked open for female representation in science fiction, but still were determined to push the door further open through their own efforts.

 

[Commishsleer]

t. Also, particularly in stories about the "Enterprise Incident" commander, there was a tendency to write her as far more impressive and powerful than she actually was in the episode. The writers may have recognized the potential she represented -- just showing a female character as a fleet commander was a really big deal -- but still seen room for improvement in the execution.

She was in charge of three ships - more than any male we saw in TOS. I suppose Admirals were more powerful but she was the most 'powerful' Captain we saw. Kirk only had one ship.
I know she lost to Kirk and Spock but we don't say that the Klingons who fell for the Corbomite trick in 'Deadly Years' or Loksene in 'Tholian Web' were defeated because they were men.
Kirk often uses seduction to gain some advantage. I see the Romulan Commander as interested in Spock as Kirk was in Lenore. The difference is Kirk was generally successful in his seductions (sometimes of young innocents) while the Romulan Commander failed. Perhaps because Spock wasn't some typical non-lying Vulcan.

 

[J.T.B.]

She was in charge of three ships - more than any male we saw in TOS.

Commodore Wesley was in charge of four.

 

[Christopher]

She was in charge of three ships - more than any male we saw in TOS. I suppose Admirals were more powerful but she was the most 'powerful' Captain we saw.

But even you need to put "powerful" in quotes, which is basically the point -- that whatever her superficial power, she was still written in a very sexist way as an irrational female who was a slave to her passions and thus easily tricked and led astray by a smooth-talking dude. What I'm saying is that the fanfic and tie-in writers who used the character -- who, again, were overwhelmingly female -- tried to portray her in a more genuinely empowered way, to have her actually come out on top. Although in some cases, this was taken to somewhat ludicrous excesses, like in the Marshak-Culbreath Phoenix novels with their BDSM elements, or Killing Time where she was somehow the Romulan Praetor while pretending to be a man. But it's also been done in more nuanced ways; both Margaret Wander Bonanno's Dwellers in the Crucible and Sherman & Shwartz's Vulcan's Heart and Vulcan's Soul show her having eventually rehabilitated herself from her disgrace and risen to a prominent position in the empire.

 

[Phaser Two]

Well, it's just par for the course with the absolutely abysmal treatment of women in TOS.

By modern-day standards, sure. But DCF in particular wrote some female characters who were a heck of a lot more impressive to me than the Romulan commander (and I liked Joanne Linville's performance). Eleen of Capella IV, for example.

 

[MAGolding]

She was in charge of three ships - more than any male we saw in TOS. I suppose Admirals were more powerful but she was the most 'powerful' Captain we saw. Kirk only had one ship.
I know she lost to Kirk and Spock but we don't say that the Klingons who fell for the Corbomite trick in 'Deadly Years' or Loksene in 'Tholian Web' were defeated because they were men.
Kirk often uses seduction to gain some advantage. I see the Romulan Commander as interested in Spock as Kirk was in Lenore. The difference is Kirk was generally successful in his seductions (sometimes of young innocents) while the Romulan Commander failed. Perhaps because Spock wasn't some typical non-lying Vulcan.

The Romulan (female) commander was not a captain. The Romulan (male) commander in "Balance of Terror" seemed to command only one ship, but that doesn't make his rank equal to a captain, the rank who normally command large warships. There have been admirals and flag officers in command of only a single ship, and his ship was described as "the Praetor's finest and proudest flagship."

For example, on 22 May 1941, at the Battle of the Denmark Strait, there were only four warships engaged under the command of two admirals. Vice Admiral Lancelot Holland commanded the British force from the battle cruiser Hood, with the battleship Prince of Wales, with two cruisers and six destroyers unable to reach the battle in time. Admiral Gunther Lutjens commanded the battleship Bismark and the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen. After the battle Admiral Lutjens sent Prinz Eugen to continue the commerce-raiding mission while Bismark headed for port for repairs. Thus Admiral Lutjens was in command of only one ship when the British fleet caught and sank Bismark.

Admiral Lutjens was a full admiral, in command of only one ship in the Bismark's final battle. The original plan for Operation Rheinubung was for Admiral Lutjens to command the battleships Bismark, and Tirpitz and the battle cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, but various problems kept delaying the availability of the various ships.

So we can imagine that the Romulan commander in "Balance of Terror" was some type of flag officer. It is possible that he was originally supposed to command a fleet of several ships with the invisibility cloak and the plasma weapon but there were delays in getting them ready and he was finally ordered to go with only one of the new super ships. And perhaps fuel ships accompanied his ship to the edge of sensor detection range by the Federation outposts, transferred fuel to his ship, and then returned.

And the female Romulan commander had at least three ships under her command. Possibly she was in command of a large section of the border and had many more ships in various locations in that section, beside the three that surrounded the Enterprise. In any case she should have been the Romulan equivalent of a flag officer of some kind, so calling her a captain is probably inaccurate.

 

[J.T.B.]

In any case she should have been the Romulan equivalent of a flag officer of some kind, so calling her a captain is probably inaccurate.

It did say in TMoST that "sub-commander" was the Romulan equivalent of a starship captain and "commander" was in charge of a fleet.

 

[Commishsleer]

Commodore Wesley was in charge of four.

But he only ended up with two ships...

But even you need to put "powerful" in quotes, which is basically the point -- that whatever her superficial power, she was still written in a very sexist way as an irrational female who was a slave to her passions and thus easily tricked and led astray by a smooth-talking dude. What I'm saying is that the fanfic and tie-in writers who used the character -- who, again, were overwhelmingly female -- tried to portray her in a more genuinely empowered way, to have her actually come out on top. Although in some cases, this was taken to somewhat ludicrous excesses, like in the Marshak-Culbreath Phoenix novels with their BDSM elements, or Killing Time where she was somehow the Romulan Praetor while pretending to be a man. But it's also been done in more nuanced ways; both Margaret Wander Bonanno's Dwellers in the Crucible and Sherman & Shwartz's Vulcan's Heart and Vulcan's Soul show her having eventually rehabilitated herself from her disgrace and risen to a prominent position in the empire.

I understand that you can take it that poor innocent Romulan Commander was tricked by our smooth talking hero but I also see it also as a political move to increase her status by capturing the Enterprise - a vastly superior ship (in both reputation and power) to the Klingon ones they were using, Even I agree that the writing was slanted towards her being too obsessed with Spock and taking her eye off the ball(the capture of the Enterprise) but its not too much different to Kirk's infatuation with Lenore in 'Conscience of the King'. Kirk basically let Lenore get away with about three murder attempts and might have actually been killed by her if her father hadn't intervened. I don't see much talk about how men like Kirk shouldn't have captaincies because women will manipulate them.
Yes and Kirk has shown in other episodes that he will use women as much as they use him.

I also factor in that Kirk and Spock were particularly unscrupulous in "The Enterprise Incident"..

Do I think "The Enterprise Incident" was a particularly great episode for women today? Maybe not but it was OK and especially good for TOS. And the second episode in a row with female commanders - maybe it was only allowed because Roddenberry had abandoned ship at that stage.

Assuming the Romulan Empire was not as sexist as the Federation, then I can see the Romulan Commander retaining power. I bet Wesley or any of the other Admirals that agreed to the "War Games" didn't lose theitr position after the disastrous M5 incident.

 

[Christopher]

its not too much different to Kirk's infatuation with Lenore in 'Conscience of the King'. Kirk basically let Lenore get away with about three murder attempts and might have actually been killed by her if her father hadn't intervened.

Huh? Kirk was hardly "infatuated" with Lenore. He was using her, pretending to pursue her romantically in order to investigate her father. If he didn't look at her as a suspect, it's because he'd already been pointed toward her father as the prime suspect. Keep in mind that Kirk witnessed Kodos's massacre firsthand when he was a teenager, that he and his family could just as easily have been among the victims. Imagine this had been a story about a Holocaust survivor being told that an acclaimed German actor was actually a concentration camp commandant. He wouldn't have to be infatuated with the man's daughter to see the father as a more likely murder suspect. He'd already be predisposed to assume that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, Kirk was anything but infatuated with Lenore. He got his buddy to cancel the Players' ride and strung Lenore along to keep her father close, so Kirk could investigate him as a suspect. I really thought that was obvious.

 

[BillJ]

Why would they need Klingon ships? They lost another conflict badly and had to scramble to bring their ships levels back to an acceptable fighting force.

 

[Commishsleer]

Yeah, Kirk was anything but infatuated with Lenore. He got his buddy to cancel the Players' ride and strung Lenore along to keep her father close, so Kirk could investigate him as a suspect. I really thought that was obvious.

Huh? Kirk was hardly "infatuated" with Lenore. He was using her, pretending to pursue her romantically in order to investigate her father. If he didn't look at her as a suspect, it's because he'd already been pointed toward her father as the prime suspect. Keep in mind that Kirk witnessed Kodos's massacre firsthand when he was a teenager, that he and his family could just as easily have been among the victims. Imagine this had been a story about a Holocaust survivor being told that an acclaimed German actor was actually a concentration camp commandant. He wouldn't have to be infatuated with the man's daughter to see the father as a more likely murder suspect. He'd already be predisposed to assume that.

LENORE: (to Karidian) You'd better rest now. There's a stain of cruelty on your shining armour, Captain. You could have spared him, and me. You talked of using tools. I was a tool, wasn't l? A tool to use against my father.
KIRK: In the beginning perhaps. But later, I wanted it to be more than that.

So Kirk allowed himself to be distracted by Lenore just like the Romulan Commander allowed herself to be distracted by Spock.
Kirk allowed two murder attempts to go uninvestigated, he endangered his ship, Riley and himself, he ignored Spock's warnings. Even Riley knew Karidian was Kodos. Even if he thought the culprit was Karidian, Kirk didn't even attempt to arrest/investigate him.
The Romulan Commander was also equally incompetent allowing herself to be tricked by the smooth-talking lotharios from the Enterprise.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No. I don't see anything like infatuation there, much less any such thing that distracted Kirk from catching the killer.

 

[Christopher]

So Kirk allowed himself to be distracted by Lenore just like the Romulan Commander allowed herself to be distracted by Spock.
The Romulan Commander was also equally incompetent allowing herself to be tricked by the smooth-talking lotharios from the Enterprise.

You're ignoring the obvious and critical difference, though -- Kirk ended up keeping his captaincy and taking Lenore into custody, while the Commander ended up losing her fleet and being taken into custody by Spock. Kirk regained control of the situation despite his lapse, while the Commander was totally stripped of all control because of her lapse. That's the difference between how men and women were written even in parallel situations.

 

[Timo]

Unfortunately, Kirk being a hero and the Commander being a villain trumps all that and makes the considerations academic at best... We could only argue about the gender roles in such scenarios were Kirk female. And the one time he was, he didn't try and seduce anybody!

Yet whatever the current vs. 1960s appeal of the episode or its assorted portrayals of assorted things, it's basically a Mission: Impossible story told in the Trek format. And those always rely heavily on the heroes knowing a lot more than the audience does.

A key element to a M:I con, or any con, is that the mark feels on top of the situation. So naturally the Commander would be confident in playing her own game, one that no doubt involves extensive intel on Spock, Kirk and the Enterprise. And naturally the heroes would be counting on that, just as in every M:I episode.

The way the Commander plays has been discussed often enough. A soft touch is obviously called for, as the threat of losing the prize ship to a heroic scuttling is very real. How soft the Commander dare try before this works in her disfavor is difficult for even an expert to judge, and here our M:I team provides ample disinformation to make her misjudge. Nothing of this would be significantly altered were the gender roles reversed, but this would then no longer be Star Trek where the leads are heterosexual males.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shawnster]

Why would they need Klingon ships? They lost another conflict badly and had to scramble to bring their ships levels back to an acceptable fighting force.

With whom? Not the Klingons. Not the Federation.

I also can dig the Klingon blackmail "must buy x amount of ships" idea. Gives the Klingons tactical advantage since they sold the ships.