In Modern Trek, Why Is the Enterprise Always Weak?

[Dayton3]

This applies to the Enterprise-D, the NX-01 Enterprise, and given that it is a feature ship, Defiant on DS9.

The Enterprise-D was the strongest ship in StarFleet.

The Defiant was one of the "heaviest armed ships in the quadrant"

and NX-01 was the most advanced Earth ship.

So why have these three ships always been pounded nearly to scrap in their respective series?

Some have said that "it would not be dramatic if your starship was near invincible"

I disagree.

Look at the original series.

Enterprise

1) Withstood attacks from the monstrous planet killer in "The Doomsday Machine"

2) Defeated a Romulan warship that featured two brand new weapons & tactical systems in "Balance of Terror".

3) Withstood more than 30 direct hits from TEN Romulan warships with little damage "The Deadly Years".

4) Endured internal sabotage and repeated direct hits from a Klingon cruiser with little damage "Elaan of Troyius"

5) Withstood attacks by a very tough Gorn ship while suffering little damage "Arena"

6) Withstood attacks by a specially equipped Orion suicide ship said to be "more powerful than any ship possibly could be" by Spock and subsequently destroyed the Orion in "Journey to Babel".

7) Shrugges off multiple direct hits fired by a Klingon warship. Subsequently destroyed the Klingon ship while suffering litte damage "Errand of Mercy".

Absorbed FOUR energy bolt hits equivalent to NINETY photon torpedos and survived "The Changeling".

9) Withstood substantial ground fire from surface installations "Return of the Archons" & "A Taste of Armageddon"

If writers in the original series were able to handle having a starship dang near indestructible.........then why have later writers had to make the Enterpris and other laad ships be weak and vulnerable?

Enterprise-D gets taken down by old Klingon Birds of Prey.

Voyager gets seized by the primitive Kazon.

Defiant in one episode mows down half a dozen Jem'hadar ships. Next time they get captured by just one.


It does not make sense.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Ships DO have to be fairly weak in places, otherwise there's no drama if they are invincible. I do agree with that. NX-01 may have been a strong Earth ship, but compared to alien vessels that may count for nothing. Defiant was beaten by a previously unknown technology. Ent-D was undone by a covert operation.

 

[Dayton3]

What about my examples from the original series?

The original Enterprise was vulnerable on occasion.

But the writers always made it a "special circumstance" where they were going up an entirely unexpected and/or overwhelming threat.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Given the choice I prefer the "vunerable" ship.

Rather than the one rarely endangered.

 

[Kegek]

Voyager? Vulnerable?

Are you kidding? That ship had a complement of around thirty photon torpedoes but fired over a hundred, had an endless supply of shuttlecraft, could repair even extensive damage in short periods of time, and could go toe to toe with the Borg on several occasions.

If anything, it was overpowered.

 

[James Bond]

The Enterprise E also has it's ass handed to it in INS and NEM, for that matter.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Voyager was a damn joke. Always perfect in appearance, inside and out, never ran out of torpedoes or shuttles, they were even able to build their own starship.

It was a pleasure cruise through the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Dayton3]

Kegek Kringle said:
Voyager? Vulnerable?

Are you kidding? That ship had a complement of around thirty photon torpedoes but fired over a hundred, had an endless supply of shuttlecraft, could repair even extensive damage in short periods of time, and could go toe to toe with the Borg on several occasions.

If anything, it was overpowered.

No.

If anything it was poorly written

 

[Kegek]

Dayton3 said:
No.

If anything it was poorly written

That's kind of my point. It's poorly written, and one of the flaws is how invulnerable Voyager is.

 

[CoveTom]

The answer is simple. The writers chose to make the ships as strong or as weak as they felt that week's story dictated, with little or no concern for what was established previously. The writers, I'm sure, would argue that this was necessary to the drama and that they were serving the plot rather than technical continuity. But I would argue that it's just lazy writing. And it got lazier as time went on.

I agree that a ship, even our beloved Enterprise, cannot be invincible if there is to be drama. I don't dispute that at all. The problem I have is that they were constantly changing the capabilities of the ships in question. If they had established that the Enterprise was more powerful than Ship A but less powerful than Ship B and stuck with that, it would be fine. But, instead, they continually redefined what a ship could do based on the story of the week.

As Joe Jennings said on the TWOKE DVD features, you have to establish your framework -- the rules of the show -- and then you have to be honest within those rules. Otherwise, it's not particularly believable. And I think that's very obvious the more they chose not to stick with the rules, ala Voyager's magical ability to never be damaged.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

One of the most embarassing moments in Trek must be the instance where a couple of Ferengi conquered the Enterprise-D with a couple of old Birds of Prey... there wasn't even the shield modulation thingy to provide (minimal)consolation.

 

[HRHTheKING]

"Rascals" is just an awful episode.

The Ferengi who outmatched the crew of the Federation flagshp are beaten by Alexander and his R/C tank.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Enterprise D was almost always stronger than opponents. When it wasn't, it was rare, like with the Borg

Stronger than Galor class, etc. Romulan Warbird we don't know. I don't know if it was stronger than a Bird of Prey in the original series, it just happened to win.

The Bird of Prey vs. Ent D was a fluke because they had the shield codes. They would have beaten it otherwise.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

In "Generations" the fault of the destruction of the Enterprise-D lies just as much with lousy tactics. Riker should have just ordered Worf to hit that crappy Bird of Prey with everything they had. The Enterprise-D had a capacity for instant mass destruction with a volley of simultaneous phaser blasts and torpedoes, yet we hardly saw it used. I understand the need to bend the rules here and there to get the story to a certain point, but in instances like these the writers totally blew credibility.

I felt the Defiant was more 'constant' in its power and ability to take a beating than the Enterprise-D and Voyager.

 

[HRHTheKING]

In GEN, it also seemed odd that they kept the crucial shield frequency in open view with no visible means of security,

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Yes, especially if you take into account the fact that the Enterprise-D frequently had non-Starfleet people aboard, such as civilians and delegations from alien races with their own agendas. It should have had the ultimate security. Ugh... once you get started on nitpicking "Generations"...

At least Malcolm McDowell was cool.

 

[Dayton3]

One of the problems with Generations was simply that it was cheaply made.

They wasted money on things they wanted to see like the saucer crash and the stellar cartography set (it was something that Zimmerman had always wanted to build so he built a hugely expensive set for 2 minutes of near worthless dialogue).

As storyboarded, the Enterprise was supposed to torpedo the Klingon ship, and debris from its destruction slammed into the engineering hull and exploded.

But the budget wasn't there. Everyone though the explosion from Star Trek VI was just as good so they stock footaged it.

I think they should've made the Klingon ship not a Bird of Prey but something larger and more powerful.

An aging battlecruiser perhaps. Old, but obviously still tough and powerful.

You can have drama and have a extremely powerful ship.

Was there less drama at the end of "The Deadly Years" just because Enterprise was able to take such a pummeling?

Of course not. Because it was clearly not going to last forever and the thing we wanted to see was Kirk recovering in time to save his ship.

 

[Nebusj]

HRHTheKING said:
In GEN, it also seemed odd that they kept the crucial shield frequency in open view with no visible means of security,

... in the center of Main Engineering, where it was shown to the Chief Engineer, in the middle of battle-ready conditions. Yes, you need security, but you also need to let the people who are authorized to see this information see it under circumstances when they need to see it.

Now, the signals intelligence of all Our Heroes has been ... less than spectacular.

 

[number6]

It must be pointed out that the original 1701 was nearly always in danger of blowing up or losing power..Number 4 shield was always toast in battle. The 1701 took as much of a pounding and was placed in as much jeopardy as the ships in modern Trek, something the TOS/Anti-Bermanistas seem to forget on a regular basis.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Nebusj said:

HRHTheKING said:
In GEN, it also seemed odd that they kept the crucial shield frequency in open view with no visible means of security,

... in the center of Main Engineering, where it was shown to the Chief Engineer, in the middle of battle-ready conditions. Yes, you need security, but you also need to let the people who are authorized to see this information see it under circumstances when they need to see it.

Now, the signals intelligence of all Our Heroes has been ... less than spectacular.

It needs to be displayed on a screen? There's no other way for the Chief Engineer and perhaps his essential staff to be given that information then keep it secret?