In Alabama, MLK Day and Robert E. Lee's Bday are celebrated today
- Thread starter apostle83
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Many people who celebrate Lee's birthday are treasonous and should be stripped of their citizenship and deported at the very least.
Most of them also probably should not be allowed to operate motor vehicles, purchase firearms or any of a number of other adult activities that presume an adult sense of responsibility and a basic functional intelligence.
The major mistake of the government of the United States in ending that war was in not sending every Confederate officer to the gallows - just for starts.
BTW, anyone see the news article yesterday where the Virginia police finally tracked down the idiot Civil War enactor who shot another guy with live ammo during one of their events some months ago? This 73-year-old reenactor took a 44-caliber ball to the shoulder; it nearly severed an artery. Turns out that the culprit was a 29-year old moron who "didn't realize" that live ammunition was a no-no at these things. The idiot shooter was a Confederate reenactor, of course.
Most of them also probably should not be allowed to operate motor vehicles, purchase firearms or any of a number of other adult activities that presume an adult sense of responsibility and a basic functional intelligence.
The major mistake of the government of the United States in ending that war was in not sending every Confederate officer to the gallows - just for starts.
BTW, anyone see the news article yesterday where the Virginia police finally tracked down the idiot Civil War enactor who shot another guy with live ammo during one of their events some months ago? This 73-year-old reenactor took a 44-caliber ball to the shoulder; it nearly severed an artery. Turns out that the culprit was a 29-year old moron who "didn't realize" that live ammunition was a no-no at these things. The idiot shooter was a Confederate reenactor, of course.
It gets even crazier in Arkansas. There, it's King-Lee-Jackson day...as in, Stonewall Jackson.
I have to disagree with Starship Polaris on several points.
For one thing, I find it on the same level with ethnic and racial discrimination to stereotype an entire region of the country the way it seems to be acceptable in liberal circles to bash the South. If you spoke that way of the black community or of another country that way, you'd be rightly decried for it--but people seem to think that if it's the South, it's OK. If you think the South has a monopoly on ignorance and racism, think again. I've lived in both places and I can tell you there is only one difference between the two: the North just doesn't openly acknowledge that it has a problem. But it's the same problem in both places.
I also think we run a very serious risk any time we start trying to revise history. We need to fully understand what was going on on both sides during the Civil War or we run the risk of repeating our mistakes. I think TheBrew hits the nail on the head when it comes to Lee in particular.
I don't think vengeance on the part of the Union would have been the right solution--the South got enough punishment as it was in the final parts of the war. And some will argue that Reconstruction has also had permanent and damaging effects on the region that is only now starting to right itself. But had there been even more vengeance, I think it is entirely possible that would've just touched off another conflict the way the Treaty of Versailles sowed the seeds for World War II. Just imagine the havoc devotees of Nathan Bedford Forrest could've wreaked in that kind of environment.
In the end, we have a unified country that, while it does have its problems, will (hopefully) never again go down the road that led to the Civil War. Enforcing ignorance about those days will not help in preserving that fundamental unity that we so need especially in times when dissent is high.
I have to disagree with Starship Polaris on several points.
For one thing, I find it on the same level with ethnic and racial discrimination to stereotype an entire region of the country the way it seems to be acceptable in liberal circles to bash the South. If you spoke that way of the black community or of another country that way, you'd be rightly decried for it--but people seem to think that if it's the South, it's OK. If you think the South has a monopoly on ignorance and racism, think again. I've lived in both places and I can tell you there is only one difference between the two: the North just doesn't openly acknowledge that it has a problem. But it's the same problem in both places.
I also think we run a very serious risk any time we start trying to revise history. We need to fully understand what was going on on both sides during the Civil War or we run the risk of repeating our mistakes. I think TheBrew hits the nail on the head when it comes to Lee in particular.
I don't think vengeance on the part of the Union would have been the right solution--the South got enough punishment as it was in the final parts of the war. And some will argue that Reconstruction has also had permanent and damaging effects on the region that is only now starting to right itself. But had there been even more vengeance, I think it is entirely possible that would've just touched off another conflict the way the Treaty of Versailles sowed the seeds for World War II. Just imagine the havoc devotees of Nathan Bedford Forrest could've wreaked in that kind of environment.
In the end, we have a unified country that, while it does have its problems, will (hopefully) never again go down the road that led to the Civil War. Enforcing ignorance about those days will not help in preserving that fundamental unity that we so need especially in times when dissent is high.
Yeah, I've always found Lee to be an interesting historical figure for many of those reasons.
I USED to think these things as well, but I now realize I was just fooled by revisionist southern history.
Brilliant general, to be sure.
Here is a Lee quote that people often use in his support:
That's true, he did say that. But guess what? The Lee supporting quotes stop right there. Read the rest:
MmmHmmm.
Oh, And uh, yeah, read this:
If you believe what you're told, you'll be as I was.
If you research on your own, you'll discover the truth.
ThankQ, I'm not denying any such things. I think in that, Lee presents a very apt lesson in how a person, even one who may believe they have good motivations, can become inured to cruelty that goes on around them every day simply because it is commonplace, and how a person is capable of tricking themselves and rationalizing what they're doing.
There is a tragedy in that, in that better choices could have resulted in that talent being applied in a much better direction, and those lessons having been learned in a much easier way had the right choices been made.
That second bit in particular sounds an awful lot like Gul Dukat!
(And not coincidentally, the tragedy I outlined above is the same one I see in the character of Dukat. There was so much potential, but by choices he made, he took the wrong path.)
There is a tragedy in that, in that better choices could have resulted in that talent being applied in a much better direction, and those lessons having been learned in a much easier way had the right choices been made.
That second bit in particular sounds an awful lot like Gul Dukat!
(And not coincidentally, the tragedy I outlined above is the same one I see in the character of Dukat. There was so much potential, but by choices he made, he took the wrong path.)
Which would have almost entirely defeated the point behind winning the Civil War to begin with. In order to prevent the possability of a second civil war breaking out in the near future, the two sides had to start playing nice and they needed to make efforts to reconcile. Part of that was to take steps to honor both sides and not to start arbitrarily executing thousands of people- an act which would have undoubtably fueled further descent and resentment against the Union.
Why? Because they won?
Can we just allow the South to secede again? I wouldn't lose any sleep.
Though it goes against my better judgement to even ask- why did you deem it a good idea to tell a black person, on MLK day, that it was REL day instead? Did you really expect it NOT to be taken as an affront?
So you were baiting him?
Oh, I'm not arguing with any of this, I know he was no saint. Nerys Ghemor outlined fairly eloquently why I find him interesting, as well.
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