Makes sense . . . the awful thing for me is that I can see and respect what they wanted to do in elevating the film past generic space opera . . . but they got so caught up in the idea of the film carrying the movie, they lost sight of the other things that make a movie engaging.
Improve Star Trek: The Motion Picture
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V'Ger is a plot device. Throw out the TMP script and build an entirely different, interesting script around it.
There you go. I'd just turned 21, and had just graduated from my teaching course, and had been told to expect a four-year wait for employment. Many loose ends. So TMP came along for me at exactly the right time for me. The full-time teaching job ended up being only two years away - but by then I was also thoroughly immersed in Star Trek fandom.
It did for many people, and I can see why they're fond of the film because of it. I'm fond of it, despite its problems. I guess that's why I keep wishing there were ways to make it even better, beyond fixing special effects.
I disagree. I thought the editing was a moderate improvement. Everything that was cut I won't miss, and the little additions added something. The only real downside to the Director's Edition is the fact that the transfer was horrible. There was no restoration effort on it at all.
And come on. That redundant electronic male computer voice will NOT BE MISSED.
How is a "moderate" improvement so different from a "half-assed attempt at it"? Neither is a a marked improvement, is it?
If anything was done deliberately as half-assed, then it would fall on Paramount's shoulders, not the makers behind the Director's Edition. Paramount supplies the budget, time frame and everything else. The team behind it worked with Mr. Wise himself, went through the models, studied the original source material and did some pretty darn good work with what they had.
What's moderate here is that the Director's Edition isn't too dissimilar from the theatrical edition, and if you listen to the team who worked on it, they didn't want to make it look too dissimilar. They just wanted to finish the film. And with better visuals, emphasis on key moments, trimmings here and there, I think I can classify this as an improvement with what they had to work with. And I am very happy with it because it's more than what was there originally.
My understanding is that different groups tender to create the various DVD sets, and if a company's tender is successful, then it's up to them to keep within the original budget they proposed.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
When there is more than usual studio politics, costs can go up while the budget remains the same. The better-part-of-a-year delay on tmp's dvd had to do in part with recutting the supplemental material extensively to take out all the 'too frank' stuff about production that apparently made paramount look even more dumb about how prod was handled. Why that should matter after so many shifts in management, I don't know, but they seem awfully protective about ancient history.
Ross, the writer I helped on a Phase II/TMP article for FILMFAX several years back, has another piece that is in or going to be in the STAR TREK magazine, and AGAIN -- just like it was on the Phase II one -- the Jon Povill memo to Katz about the nature of vger got eliminated during editing, apparently because Paramount wouldn't authorize it. Why Paramount would care whether Katzenberg came off like a really moronic fundamentalist -- or just a big dummy -- decades after the fact really doesn't track for me.
(Povill's reaction to the new movie apparently didn't make the finished article either, but that was probably due to some other person's cuts, not Paramount's.)
I once got a good peek at that memo. From what I recall Jon Povill states something like V'ger's purpose is to merge and that Decker has an increasing need to understand this powerful, machine mind and satisfy its desires. Thus, become part of V'ger is his reward in the end. In arguing his point, Povill states that all of this has been building in the first two acts of the film.
Ah, whut?!
The first two acts do nothing to establish Decker's desire to join with V'ger. Illa (and Illa-probe) maybe, but certainly not with this awesome machine intelligence. This is why the ending doesn't feel like a proper climax. It's a good and visually spectacular ending but, unfortunately, it's not properly driven by the characters as Povill seems to emphasize in the memo.
But Povill's point further illustrates some of the structural flaws that hamper the film--and it's at the writing level. Not one moment in the first two acts do I believe that Decker has any motivation in terms of V'ger. He's overly cautious, and doesn't have a sense of urgency about this particular mission. He even hesitates when Kirk suggests that he "get to know" the Illa-probe. He is more of a cockblock than anything else in the film, and really whiney most of the way through.
There's not even one throwaway line to explain Decker's supposed motivation to comprehend this supreme machine intelligence. Well, maybe the "we all create god in our own image" line that's been cut and added and cut again from the three major cuts of the film.
In his review of TMP, Harlan Ellison was right to point out that the better ending was for Kirk to meld with V'ger. In my estimation, Kirk should at least try to merge with V'ger, only to be shoved aside by Illa in favor of Decker.
Kirk seems more anxious than Decker to get to the "heart of the cloud". Once again, with a little tweaking, this "satisfy its desires" could've been given to Kirk, the supposed hero of the film, then at the last minute V'ger choosing Decker over Kirk for whatever reason, known or unknown to the audience.
In the memo, Povill compares Decker's involvement in V'ger's transfiguration to Close Encounters, stating something like one of our "principal characters" is directly involved just as Richard Drefuss was in the climax of Speilberg's film. Yet, Decker wasn't really one of the principles. He was the guest star in a Star Trek, a leftover from the original Phase II two-hour teleplay. Ellison was right--Kirk's the hero, let him do something heroic, not the guest player!
It's like how in Superman Returns, it's Richard White who comes across as more heroic than Clark Kent/Superman.
The merging of Decker-Illa-V'ger is one of the more spectacular events in a Trek film. Certainly, it is the most epic. However, it seems as if Povill, Gene Roddenberry, Harold Livingston, and, perhaps, Ray Wise overwrought the ending without putting the connective tissues to that conclusion into the first two acts. At least that's what I can only conclude from Povill's memo.
Ah, whut?!
The first two acts do nothing to establish Decker's desire to join with V'ger. Illa (and Illa-probe) maybe, but certainly not with this awesome machine intelligence. This is why the ending doesn't feel like a proper climax. It's a good and visually spectacular ending but, unfortunately, it's not properly driven by the characters as Povill seems to emphasize in the memo.
But Povill's point further illustrates some of the structural flaws that hamper the film--and it's at the writing level. Not one moment in the first two acts do I believe that Decker has any motivation in terms of V'ger. He's overly cautious, and doesn't have a sense of urgency about this particular mission. He even hesitates when Kirk suggests that he "get to know" the Illa-probe. He is more of a cockblock than anything else in the film, and really whiney most of the way through.
There's not even one throwaway line to explain Decker's supposed motivation to comprehend this supreme machine intelligence. Well, maybe the "we all create god in our own image" line that's been cut and added and cut again from the three major cuts of the film.
In his review of TMP, Harlan Ellison was right to point out that the better ending was for Kirk to meld with V'ger. In my estimation, Kirk should at least try to merge with V'ger, only to be shoved aside by Illa in favor of Decker.
Kirk seems more anxious than Decker to get to the "heart of the cloud". Once again, with a little tweaking, this "satisfy its desires" could've been given to Kirk, the supposed hero of the film, then at the last minute V'ger choosing Decker over Kirk for whatever reason, known or unknown to the audience.
In the memo, Povill compares Decker's involvement in V'ger's transfiguration to Close Encounters, stating something like one of our "principal characters" is directly involved just as Richard Drefuss was in the climax of Speilberg's film. Yet, Decker wasn't really one of the principles. He was the guest star in a Star Trek, a leftover from the original Phase II two-hour teleplay. Ellison was right--Kirk's the hero, let him do something heroic, not the guest player!
It's like how in Superman Returns, it's Richard White who comes across as more heroic than Clark Kent/Superman.
The merging of Decker-Illa-V'ger is one of the more spectacular events in a Trek film. Certainly, it is the most epic. However, it seems as if Povill, Gene Roddenberry, Harold Livingston, and, perhaps, Ray Wise overwrought the ending without putting the connective tissues to that conclusion into the first two acts. At least that's what I can only conclude from Povill's memo.
I miss that voice and that klaxon. And why does every damn button have to have a high pitched campy chirp? Poeple complain that there is no real character story arcs here. This is a very BIG and important one in at least one of the characters.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Maybe I got to dig it out, because I don't remember most of that stuff, mainly just the trying to get Katz to realize his judeo-christian stuff was inappropriate.
However, the Decker problem is always there, and I think upthread it is addressed that even the TV version had this problem in spades, which the Arthur guy of Par tv went on and on about (as well as McCoy's scenes not having any meat.)
Also upthread somebody mentioned that you need a couple Decker scenes that really establish him as NOT-Kirk in a big way to set up the ending, unless his decision is only a be-with-Ilia decision and not a where-no-man evolution that he wants.
Man, just typing that got my head hurting again. Lots of wrong turns on this picture.
However, the Decker problem is always there, and I think upthread it is addressed that even the TV version had this problem in spades, which the Arthur guy of Par tv went on and on about (as well as McCoy's scenes not having any meat.)
Also upthread somebody mentioned that you need a couple Decker scenes that really establish him as NOT-Kirk in a big way to set up the ending, unless his decision is only a be-with-Ilia decision and not a where-no-man evolution that he wants.
Man, just typing that got my head hurting again. Lots of wrong turns on this picture.
As it is in the film, Decker's decision to merge with V'ger comes across as this:
"Whelp, Kirk's got my ship and my girl's a robot so might as well do this merging thang with V'ger since I ain't got much else going on."
I would want it to be even more like a (wannabe) arthouse flick:
- leave everything as it is(except FX) until they pass Jupiter.
- Cut out the crew's faces closups from theVejur flyover scene to make it more like the end of 2001. Maybe leave in "shocked" Uhura. That was awesome.
Replace special effects 1:1 with state of the art new FX.
- Remove Wormhole scene, also Decker/Kirk confrontation, Decker/Illiabot scenes.
Instead, insert one scene right after Spock's arrival with Decker/Spock talking in length about the human condition and logic and stuff with loads of subtext and metaphors.
- Alternatively, have the Wormhole sequence last for 20 minutes, and turn it into some trippy light show.
-Put in another scene after Robot Ilia shows up. Kirk, Bones, Decker talking about V'Ger and the quality of life.
- 45 minute spacewalk scene with new effects and Kirk/Spock discussing V'ger and logic and feeling etc.
- everything from V'Ger reaching Earth to V'Ger linking with Decker can stay the same.
- "Serious" ending.
- leave everything as it is(except FX) until they pass Jupiter.
- Cut out the crew's faces closups from theVejur flyover scene to make it more like the end of 2001. Maybe leave in "shocked" Uhura. That was awesome.
Replace special effects 1:1 with state of the art new FX.
- Remove Wormhole scene, also Decker/Kirk confrontation, Decker/Illiabot scenes.
Instead, insert one scene right after Spock's arrival with Decker/Spock talking in length about the human condition and logic and stuff with loads of subtext and metaphors.
- Alternatively, have the Wormhole sequence last for 20 minutes, and turn it into some trippy light show.
-Put in another scene after Robot Ilia shows up. Kirk, Bones, Decker talking about V'Ger and the quality of life.
- 45 minute spacewalk scene with new effects and Kirk/Spock discussing V'ger and logic and feeling etc.
- everything from V'Ger reaching Earth to V'Ger linking with Decker can stay the same.
- "Serious" ending.
^ Yea that would make it a better film
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