Brighten up the colors a little and edit down some of the "beauty shots" (though I do love the long intro of the new 1701). Otherwise I think its perfect as is.
Improve Star Trek: The Motion Picture
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Fo'sho. Moreover, the Scotty and Kirk conversation uses Doyle's favorite trick to making exposition not seem boring, by placing the characters in a moving vehicle.
The best suggestion I've seen for this topic came from Warped9...
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This is exactly the sort of thing that TMP was missing, and it would have worked marvelously with the existing storyline.
SOURCE (Thank you, search function
)This is exactly the sort of thing that TMP was missing, and it would have worked marvelously with the existing storyline.
One fairly good idea I have is this, the transporter accident involved Commander Sonak and Admiral Lori Ciana. From Roddenberry's novelization Kirk and Ciana were basically married, so the accident scene goes like this ...
Kirk and Scott rush into the transporter room, Kirk can see that it's Ciana on the pad - cut to -
Kirk meeting Ciana, at SF headquarter, they're in uniform - cut to - Kirk at the control panel
Kirk and Ciana on their first date, sidewalk cafe in San Fransisco - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana on a dance floor, music, slow dancing and kissing - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana walking down a hallway, heated happy argument - cut to - Kirk at the control panel
Kirk and Ciana in a briefing, can't take their eyes off each other - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana making love for the first time, grassy hilltop, ocean view - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad ... screaming
Kirk and Ciana having a marriage ceremony of some sort - cut to - Ciana and Sonak fade from the pads, it's over
"What we got back didn't live very long, fortunately."
I'm suggesting a a series of short scenes, Kirk and Ciana together would be twelve to fifteen second each and Ciana on the pad maybe five seconds each. It would certainly add understanding to Kirk getting lost in the corridor, having to ask where the turbolift shaft was, then being found by Decker. My additional scene would have added two minutes to the film, time could have been removed from the V'ger cloud fly through scene.
What do you think?
Kirk and Scott rush into the transporter room, Kirk can see that it's Ciana on the pad - cut to -
Kirk meeting Ciana, at SF headquarter, they're in uniform - cut to - Kirk at the control panel
Kirk and Ciana on their first date, sidewalk cafe in San Fransisco - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana on a dance floor, music, slow dancing and kissing - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana walking down a hallway, heated happy argument - cut to - Kirk at the control panel
Kirk and Ciana in a briefing, can't take their eyes off each other - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad
Kirk and Ciana making love for the first time, grassy hilltop, ocean view - cut to - Ciana dying on the pad ... screaming
Kirk and Ciana having a marriage ceremony of some sort - cut to - Ciana and Sonak fade from the pads, it's over
"What we got back didn't live very long, fortunately."
I'm suggesting a a series of short scenes, Kirk and Ciana together would be twelve to fifteen second each and Ciana on the pad maybe five seconds each. It would certainly add understanding to Kirk getting lost in the corridor, having to ask where the turbolift shaft was, then being found by Decker. My additional scene would have added two minutes to the film, time could have been removed from the V'ger cloud fly through scene.
What do you think?
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The best suggestion I've seen for this topic came from Warped9...
SOURCE (Thank you, search function
This is exactly the sort of thing that TMP was missing, and it would have worked marvelously with the existing storyline.
The problem with that idea is that instead of having two unknown characters who start off as "equals", you'd have an unknown character being pitted against Kirk. Who do you think the audience is going to support?
But if Kirk loses the love of his life at the beginning, it would probably affect his psychology all through the movie, or at least audiences would expect to see the effect it has on him. So the rest of the movie would have to be changed substantially to reflect that, imo.
Re: Kirk and Ciana:
Again, it doesn't add anything. The rest of the movie, Kirk shows no feelings of loss as he likely would. Hell, Sonak is basically forgotten the minute Kirk steps out of the transporter room.
If they did add the loss factor into the movie, it would greatly change the flow, direction, and emotional element of the story. Plus, the audience would go "huh?" This character was not mentioned at all before in the movie. It would just add confusion.
Again, it doesn't add anything. The rest of the movie, Kirk shows no feelings of loss as he likely would. Hell, Sonak is basically forgotten the minute Kirk steps out of the transporter room.
If they did add the loss factor into the movie, it would greatly change the flow, direction, and emotional element of the story. Plus, the audience would go "huh?" This character was not mentioned at all before in the movie. It would just add confusion.
I actually am fond of Nemesis!
I had a phone call with Fred Phillips in January 1984 and he said, when originally designing the new alien makeups, he'd been told there'd be a big banquet scene, like the one in "Journey to Babel", but where the ambassadors are informed of the mysterious unknown cloud heading for Earth, and that Enterprise would attempt to intercept. A much better chance to see the new UFP members (and their costumes) up close than what we got: meandering like tiny ants around the air tram station.
And a helluv a lot more interesting to see their reactions to the threat.
I would have made Decker female and eliminated the Ilia role. Kirk and Decker would share the past that Decker and Ilia did. Kirk would have both professional and romantic tension with the newly demoted Captain, and would take the lead in "awakening" her after she's kidnapped.
As far as the ending goes, either Kirk merges with V'ger, or perhaps a more TOS-like resolution where Kirk convinces V'Ger (through Decker) that it doesn't need humanity to reach the next level. Or maybe a super-dangerous mind meld involving Spock where Kirk gives V'ger the ability to "leap beyond logic."
At any rate, I think this would address one of my biggest complaints with TMP - the passive role Kirk plays through much of the film.
As far as the ending goes, either Kirk merges with V'ger, or perhaps a more TOS-like resolution where Kirk convinces V'Ger (through Decker) that it doesn't need humanity to reach the next level. Or maybe a super-dangerous mind meld involving Spock where Kirk gives V'ger the ability to "leap beyond logic."
At any rate, I think this would address one of my biggest complaints with TMP - the passive role Kirk plays through much of the film.
I would've made Decker a female and kept Ilia in there. That would have made for an improved film.
Ah, that's good then. I misinterpreted.I actually am fond of Nemesis!
I would've made Decker a female and kept Ilia in there. That would have made for an improved film.
Nah keep Decker a male, ditch Ilia, and use DaleC76's idea about romantic and professional tension with Kirk.
True confessions. I wrote that K/D fanfic in the early 80s. It was called "Ambition is a Curse, but Loneliness is Worse" and appeared in an Australian slash SF Media zine called "Magnetism".
TMP's dramatic flatulence comes mostly from a lot of set-up but very little pay off.
Take, for instance, that we're mostly told Kirk is obsessed, but we don't see much of it. We don't see the scene where he confronts Nogura, for instance, and his brushes with Decker are just that. Bones lecturing him is hardly a substitute for an actual scene where we can see this -- and more importantly, experience it emotionally and cathartically -- ourselves.
Ditto on Spock. We don't actually see anything of the Kolinahr ritual, Spock's trials and tribulations, or the sacrifices he's made. Instead, he basically gets stage fright at the final ceremony. Later, he stalks around the ship looking slightly more severe than the last time we saw him. Then he cries, sort of.
Decker and Ilia are given a shorthand love relationship, McCoy complains about the sickbay, but we never see his reaction to it, etc. For such an expensive and long movie, it is full of scenes that don't really do or show anything of dramatic import, instead giving a flimsy framework to the special effects and the aesthetics. The second half is basically people sitting in a room and watching TV.
There are always compromises between the limitations of screen time and the depth a story can provide, but TMP mostly settled for the compromises. To improve it but to keep the essence of its vision would require tighter and more imaginative writing and more focus on the showing of story than the telling of it.
So, start with Spock in the Kolinahr -- use a montage of scenes, with flashback and fades. Heck, TV's Kung Fu did this in a few minutes practically every week. Then, when he is about to pass the final test, let Spock be interrupted by the vision of the Klingon attack on V'Ger, but let us see it as through Spock's eyes. Kill two birds with one stone in the first few minutes of the film.
Though I found "obsessed Kirk" tedious (it would have been far more interesting if he had to be pressed back by Nogura into service), let him take Nogura on the tour of the drydocked Enterprise -- and let the flight also be the confrontation between the two as Kirk angles to get the ship back. We get to have the beauty shots, etc., but now Kirk is fighting for something he wants rather than just getting a woody looking at it for 10 minutes. Scotty can still be there, but let him be a silent -- and disapproving -- witness to Kirk's actions.
Kirk being at the transporter controls did nothing except let Shatner deliver a line poorly. It would work better as an object lesson for obsessed Kirk if he'd barked orders to get the systems on line faster and he arrives just in time -- Decker shortly after -- to see the horrible outcome. Let him grieve a little, if in private, but also let him feel the result of his "pushing," as Bones puts it.
Give Decker a spine. After being demoted by Kirk, he should be pissed, and Ilia should be trying in some way to console him, not in a mousy way but in the way that people who are no longer lovers but still care for each other do. Let Decker be as hard-headed as Kirk, and as hard-hearted as an ex-lover might be. Let her warn him the way McCoy warns Kirk. Let that be the set-up for some rash action he takes later (rather than Kirk) that gets Ilia digitized and sets up his need for redemption when he meets the Ilia probe.
Let the Epsilon 9 confrontation happen after the Enterprise is already underway and after the wormhole nearly destroys the ship. The crew assembly can still take place, perhaps while Kirk makes the point that the mission may be in jeopardy, but in the darkest moment after they see the station (and perhaps some other ships) digitized, let Spock make his entrance.
There are more points, but it's mostly about the execution than the conception. Personally, I'd have changed quite a bit in the script to focus less on the sci-fi and more on the human drama. But rethinking the scenes might be enough to improve the film with a meaningful approach.
Take, for instance, that we're mostly told Kirk is obsessed, but we don't see much of it. We don't see the scene where he confronts Nogura, for instance, and his brushes with Decker are just that. Bones lecturing him is hardly a substitute for an actual scene where we can see this -- and more importantly, experience it emotionally and cathartically -- ourselves.
Ditto on Spock. We don't actually see anything of the Kolinahr ritual, Spock's trials and tribulations, or the sacrifices he's made. Instead, he basically gets stage fright at the final ceremony. Later, he stalks around the ship looking slightly more severe than the last time we saw him. Then he cries, sort of.
Decker and Ilia are given a shorthand love relationship, McCoy complains about the sickbay, but we never see his reaction to it, etc. For such an expensive and long movie, it is full of scenes that don't really do or show anything of dramatic import, instead giving a flimsy framework to the special effects and the aesthetics. The second half is basically people sitting in a room and watching TV.
There are always compromises between the limitations of screen time and the depth a story can provide, but TMP mostly settled for the compromises. To improve it but to keep the essence of its vision would require tighter and more imaginative writing and more focus on the showing of story than the telling of it.
So, start with Spock in the Kolinahr -- use a montage of scenes, with flashback and fades. Heck, TV's Kung Fu did this in a few minutes practically every week. Then, when he is about to pass the final test, let Spock be interrupted by the vision of the Klingon attack on V'Ger, but let us see it as through Spock's eyes. Kill two birds with one stone in the first few minutes of the film.
Though I found "obsessed Kirk" tedious (it would have been far more interesting if he had to be pressed back by Nogura into service), let him take Nogura on the tour of the drydocked Enterprise -- and let the flight also be the confrontation between the two as Kirk angles to get the ship back. We get to have the beauty shots, etc., but now Kirk is fighting for something he wants rather than just getting a woody looking at it for 10 minutes. Scotty can still be there, but let him be a silent -- and disapproving -- witness to Kirk's actions.
Kirk being at the transporter controls did nothing except let Shatner deliver a line poorly. It would work better as an object lesson for obsessed Kirk if he'd barked orders to get the systems on line faster and he arrives just in time -- Decker shortly after -- to see the horrible outcome. Let him grieve a little, if in private, but also let him feel the result of his "pushing," as Bones puts it.
Give Decker a spine. After being demoted by Kirk, he should be pissed, and Ilia should be trying in some way to console him, not in a mousy way but in the way that people who are no longer lovers but still care for each other do. Let Decker be as hard-headed as Kirk, and as hard-hearted as an ex-lover might be. Let her warn him the way McCoy warns Kirk. Let that be the set-up for some rash action he takes later (rather than Kirk) that gets Ilia digitized and sets up his need for redemption when he meets the Ilia probe.
Let the Epsilon 9 confrontation happen after the Enterprise is already underway and after the wormhole nearly destroys the ship. The crew assembly can still take place, perhaps while Kirk makes the point that the mission may be in jeopardy, but in the darkest moment after they see the station (and perhaps some other ships) digitized, let Spock make his entrance.
There are more points, but it's mostly about the execution than the conception. Personally, I'd have changed quite a bit in the script to focus less on the sci-fi and more on the human drama. But rethinking the scenes might be enough to improve the film with a meaningful approach.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Why the hell they pay movie directors millions to make films, when they could just come here and get some advice for free, baffles me.
A more reasonable question would revolve around why scripts in which problems are already solved get discarded to get 'fresh input' that requires reinventing the wheel so that it is now octagonal and consequently unable to negotiate the already-plotted road.
I mean, even stuff like THE BLACK HOLE had actual content in earlier drafts. But no, dumb it down somemore.
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