Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast
- Thread starter Photon
- Start date
I love these two. IMO, the best two-parter in all of Trek. And I agree - this story has it all. Great script, great characterizations, a way cool big space battle, lots of intrigue, a few nifty surprise plot twists...and all the Garak you can handle.
What's not to love?
What's not to love?
Its even more impressive when you read in the Companion that it was to be only a single episode. And it was changed at the last minute.
^ Thank goodness. I really needed the time. A two-parter, and still not a wasted scene!
I never quite gotthe how and why the Romulans showed up at the station, Robert Hewett Wolfe couldn't explain when I asked him about it either.
http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=14822&st=600&p=376550&#entry376550
And that's the second Romulan fleet to show up at DS9 the neutral zone was something of a joke on DS9.
http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=14822&st=600&p=376550&#entry376550
And that's the second Romulan fleet to show up at DS9 the neutral zone was something of a joke on DS9.
^Bajor isn't in Federation territory, they may have no reason not to welcome Romulan ships in to their space as long as they behave peacefully. It might take a while but space is space - it's perfectly possible to go around the neutral zone.
Having read what you said on that other forum you linked to, the question is not "how" it's "why" - and the thread appears to be referring to the mid-season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light". The Romulans had a vested interest in keeping the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant. Their usual isolationist ways weren't going to get them anywhere that time.
Having read what you said on that other forum you linked to, the question is not "how" it's "why" - and the thread appears to be referring to the mid-season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light". The Romulans had a vested interest in keeping the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant. Their usual isolationist ways weren't going to get them anywhere that time.
The Romulans were and still are stuck on their side of the neutral zone crossing it means war with the Federation nothing's really changed that. And there's no story for the Romulans to show up let alone out of the blue. And seeing as how they signed a noninterfence tready with the Dominion they simply allowed them access into Romulan space so I can't see where you're coming from with that.
Still though you are right I got the two parters mixed up last night.
^All we know from canon dialogue is that it is possible to get from Cardassian space to Romulan space without crossing through Federation space.
In "In the Pale Moonlight", Jadzia mentions that Dominion ships were entering Romulan space crossing the Romulan Neutral Zone and attacking Federation ships and outposts. She also says that the Romulans were turning a blind eye to it. Bajor seems to be very, very close to Cardassian territory (see "Explorers").
In "In the Pale Moonlight", Jadzia mentions that Dominion ships were entering Romulan space crossing the Romulan Neutral Zone and attacking Federation ships and outposts. She also says that the Romulans were turning a blind eye to it. Bajor seems to be very, very close to Cardassian territory (see "Explorers").
Note also that, whenever Romulan ships in early TNG are encountered even half a lightyear out of their reservate behind the Zone, the galaxy teeters on the brink of war. Yet by the time of DS9 "Paradise", no eyebrows are raised when a Romulan vessel helpfully reports the presence of a runaway Federation runabout in what appears to be either neutral space or possibly even UFP territory. Nor are the Romulan ships of TNG "The Next Phase" or TNG "Timescape" considered casus belli...
Perhaps something changed big time after the first two seasons of TNG? Perhaps Romulan shipping is allowed to proceed through and past the Neutral Zone in the late 2360s and the 2370s, as long as military vessels do not trespass, at least not unannounced?
Or then the Star Charts interpretation holds true, and the Neutral Zone only guards the Federation side of the Romulan Star Empire, allowing the Romulans to explore the galaxy by going around UFP-held volumes of space.
Whichever the explanation, TNG "Tin Man" is perhaps the first time our Starfleet heroes are more or less at ease with having Romulans fly around outside their little Star Empire. After that, we no longer get those "brinkmanship" episodes where crossing the Zone under the excuse of the week is a big thing. Yet the Zone is still there, and fully enforced, as late as TNG "Face of the Enemy"... So I rather favor the "they always could go around" explanation.
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps something changed big time after the first two seasons of TNG? Perhaps Romulan shipping is allowed to proceed through and past the Neutral Zone in the late 2360s and the 2370s, as long as military vessels do not trespass, at least not unannounced?
Or then the Star Charts interpretation holds true, and the Neutral Zone only guards the Federation side of the Romulan Star Empire, allowing the Romulans to explore the galaxy by going around UFP-held volumes of space.
Whichever the explanation, TNG "Tin Man" is perhaps the first time our Starfleet heroes are more or less at ease with having Romulans fly around outside their little Star Empire. After that, we no longer get those "brinkmanship" episodes where crossing the Zone under the excuse of the week is a big thing. Yet the Zone is still there, and fully enforced, as late as TNG "Face of the Enemy"... So I rather favor the "they always could go around" explanation.
Timo Saloniemi
It's not as if the Klingons would ever have enforced their spatial sanctity in practice, either. All sorts of intruders come and go. Ditto for Cardassian space... It would thus save major face if these star empires did not try and declare complete sovereignty over vast volumes of space.
The border squabble between the Feds and the Romulans seems pretty exceptional overall, at least in the Alpha quadrant.
Timo Saloniemi
The border squabble between the Feds and the Romulans seems pretty exceptional overall, at least in the Alpha quadrant.
Timo Saloniemi
Didn't the Romulans sign that treaty after this happened?DWF said:
The Romulans were and still are stuck on their side of the neutral zone crossing it means war with the Federation nothing's really changed that. And there's no story for the Romulans to show up let alone out of the blue. And seeing as how they signed a noninterfence tready with the Dominion they simply allowed them access into Romulan space so I can't see where you're coming from with that.
Still though you are right I got the two parters mixed up last night.
Besides, Hermoid is correct. Bajor isn't a Federation planet and DS9 is a Bajorian owned station. Starfleet may run it but they can't claim it. Unless in agreement with the Bajorian government, Starfleet can't restrict flight thru that space. I believe Starfleet only claims rights to the wormhole, which is why they could mine it without needing consent from Bajor.
The Romulans signed the Treaty in the 5th Season.
The wormhole is the legal property of Bajor according to Kira in the first season. Remember when they mined the wormhole and refused to return the Station to Bajor in Season 5 the Bajoran Government officially protested that action.
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