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Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast

Photon

Commodore
Commodore
Ladies and gents, THAT is good Trek.
It has it all: great dialogue, intrigue, good play off the other actors, space battle, Romulan Warbird, etc.
Voyager and ENT could learn alot from these two great shows
 
I love these two. IMO, the best two-parter in all of Trek. And I agree - this story has it all. Great script, great characterizations, a way cool big space battle, lots of intrigue, a few nifty surprise plot twists...and all the Garak you can handle.

What's not to love?
 
Its even more impressive when you read in the Companion that it was to be only a single episode. And it was changed at the last minute.
 
^Bajor isn't in Federation territory, they may have no reason not to welcome Romulan ships in to their space as long as they behave peacefully. It might take a while but space is space - it's perfectly possible to go around the neutral zone.

Having read what you said on that other forum you linked to, the question is not "how" it's "why" - and the thread appears to be referring to the mid-season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light". The Romulans had a vested interest in keeping the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant. Their usual isolationist ways weren't going to get them anywhere that time.
 
Hermiod said:
^Bajor isn't in Federation territory, they may have no reason not to welcome Romulan ships in to their space as long as they behave peacefully. It might take a while but space is space - it's perfectly possible to go around the neutral zone.

Having read what you said on that other forum you linked to, the question is not "how" it's "why" - and the thread appears to be referring to the mid-season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light". The Romulans had a vested interest in keeping the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant. Their usual isolationist ways weren't going to get them anywhere that time.

The Romulans were and still are stuck on their side of the neutral zone crossing it means war with the Federation nothing's really changed that. And there's no story for the Romulans to show up let alone out of the blue. And seeing as how they signed a noninterfence tready with the Dominion they simply allowed them access into Romulan space so I can't see where you're coming from with that.

Still though you are right I got the two parters mixed up last night. :o
 
Going through the Neutral Zone is an act of war. Going around it is not. If their ships do not enter Federation space or the Neutral Zone on the way to Bajor, there's not much the Federation can say about it.
 
I blv they came in from Cardy space. the OO and TS were having manuveurs in the Orias sector. Have to look at a map to see how they got from Romulan space to Cardy space but I blv they could have flown thru neutral space to get there. A long ways.
 
^All we know from canon dialogue is that it is possible to get from Cardassian space to Romulan space without crossing through Federation space.

In "In the Pale Moonlight", Jadzia mentions that Dominion ships were entering Romulan space crossing the Romulan Neutral Zone and attacking Federation ships and outposts. She also says that the Romulans were turning a blind eye to it. Bajor seems to be very, very close to Cardassian territory (see "Explorers").
 
Note also that, whenever Romulan ships in early TNG are encountered even half a lightyear out of their reservate behind the Zone, the galaxy teeters on the brink of war. Yet by the time of DS9 "Paradise", no eyebrows are raised when a Romulan vessel helpfully reports the presence of a runaway Federation runabout in what appears to be either neutral space or possibly even UFP territory. Nor are the Romulan ships of TNG "The Next Phase" or TNG "Timescape" considered casus belli...

Perhaps something changed big time after the first two seasons of TNG? Perhaps Romulan shipping is allowed to proceed through and past the Neutral Zone in the late 2360s and the 2370s, as long as military vessels do not trespass, at least not unannounced?

Or then the Star Charts interpretation holds true, and the Neutral Zone only guards the Federation side of the Romulan Star Empire, allowing the Romulans to explore the galaxy by going around UFP-held volumes of space.

Whichever the explanation, TNG "Tin Man" is perhaps the first time our Starfleet heroes are more or less at ease with having Romulans fly around outside their little Star Empire. After that, we no longer get those "brinkmanship" episodes where crossing the Zone under the excuse of the week is a big thing. Yet the Zone is still there, and fully enforced, as late as TNG "Face of the Enemy"... So I rather favor the "they always could go around" explanation.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Unlike the other major powers, the Federation doesn't seem to say "This space is ours and everything in between is ours too". Federation space isn't one big blob, so there should be ways through it.
 
It's not as if the Klingons would ever have enforced their spatial sanctity in practice, either. All sorts of intruders come and go. Ditto for Cardassian space... It would thus save major face if these star empires did not try and declare complete sovereignty over vast volumes of space.

The border squabble between the Feds and the Romulans seems pretty exceptional overall, at least in the Alpha quadrant.

Timo Saloniemi
 
DWF said:
Hermiod said:
^Bajor isn't in Federation territory, they may have no reason not to welcome Romulan ships in to their space as long as they behave peacefully. It might take a while but space is space - it's perfectly possible to go around the neutral zone.

Having read what you said on that other forum you linked to, the question is not "how" it's "why" - and the thread appears to be referring to the mid-season five two-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow"/"By Inferno's Light". The Romulans had a vested interest in keeping the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant. Their usual isolationist ways weren't going to get them anywhere that time.

The Romulans were and still are stuck on their side of the neutral zone crossing it means war with the Federation nothing's really changed that. And there's no story for the Romulans to show up let alone out of the blue. And seeing as how they signed a noninterfence tready with the Dominion they simply allowed them access into Romulan space so I can't see where you're coming from with that.

Still though you are right I got the two parters mixed up last night. :o
Didn't the Romulans sign that treaty after this happened?

Besides, Hermoid is correct. Bajor isn't a Federation planet and DS9 is a Bajorian owned station. Starfleet may run it but they can't claim it. Unless in agreement with the Bajorian government, Starfleet can't restrict flight thru that space. I believe Starfleet only claims rights to the wormhole, which is why they could mine it without needing consent from Bajor.
 
exodus said:
Didn't the Romulans sign that treaty after this happened?

The Romulans signed the Treaty in the 5th Season.

I believe Starfleet only claims rights to the wormhole.

The wormhole is the legal property of Bajor according to Kira in the first season. Remember when they mined the wormhole and refused to return the Station to Bajor in Season 5 the Bajoran Government officially protested that action.
 
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