Imperialism in the Star Trek

[The Overlord]

Imperialism in Star Trek

It seems odd that there several expansionist empires in the Star Trek universe (the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassian Union) and we don't see a whole lot of the territories they have conquered. Outside of examples like the Bajoran Occupation we don't get see much of how these empires conquer and administrate their territories. How worlds have say the Romulans and Klingons conquered, what do they do with the populations of these worlds? Why don't they use subjects from conquered worlds as foot soldiers?

 

[Nerys Myk]

They dont trust them.

 

[The Overlord]

They dont trust them.

Fair enough, but using them as cannon fodder and getting them to do dangerous jobs that they wouldn't want to risk their main soldiers on wouldn't involve trust.

It seems like the federation has a huge man power advantage over these empires, considering the Federation has personal from almost all member worlds, while these empires just have personal from their core worlds, it makes them less threatening.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They dont trust them.

Fair enough, but using them as cannon fodder and getting them to do dangerous jobs that they wouldn't want to risk their main soldiers on wouldn't involve trust.

It seems like the federation has a huge man power advantage over these empires, considering the Federation has personal from almost all member worlds, while these empires just have personal from their core worlds, it makes them less threatening.

War and dying a warrior's death is very important to Klingons, I doubt they'd give that honor to lesser beings. I'm sure their factories, farms and mines are full of subject races.

They might breed very fast and look upon procreation as a service to the Empire. The Klingon population of the Empire may be the near equal of all the races of the UFP.

 

[Paradon]

Given the choice of dying as slaves or fighting for the Roman and become part of it and live as free citizens, most people would choose the easy way out.

 

[Mr Silver]

I get the feeling that the Klingon Empire doesn't do the slave thing. Not in the 24th century anyway, where they are aligned with the Federation and keeping slaves is dishonourable (and very Romulan like).

The Klingons may have simply taken land by force and allowed a planets population to live as they would with no interference unless hostile action was taken. I don't see most Klingons taking territory by invasion, rather I see them as taking territory during a conflict. The territory is a prize of their enemy's defeat. They would then evict the inhabitants and claim the territory for the Empire. It's like in TUC, the warden of Rura Penthe says "work well and you will be treated well, work badly and you will die". They don't really care as such, they just expect people to do what is expected of them and there won't be a problem.

The Romulans are different. We know that they treated the Remans as slaves and had them mine and act as cannon fodder in the Dominion War. The Romulan government has the "infinite expansion" philosophy (as seen in ENT where the Drone overseer revealed he was thrown out of the senate for question that philosophy). The Romulans despite this way of thinking, seem pretty isolationist and it seems that they would rather keep to their own space, than invade.

 

[T'Girl]

It seems odd that there several expansionist empires in the Star Trek universe (the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassian Union)

Don't forget the Federation itself, while not a "Empire" the Federation during the TNG era was very expansionist. Boarder wars, new members and colonies were commonly mentioned.

the populations of these worlds? Why don't they use subjects from conquered worlds as foot soldiers?

The Reman were used as troops, and they were shown to have no difficulty operating a complex starship. Shinzon, a mining slave, was allowed to join the Romulan military as a officer and eventual became a commander.

I don't see most Klingons taking territory by invasion

Cardassian Union, or did you think they were going to give it back?

 

[antiquityscion]

Don't forget the Federation itself, while not a "Empire" the Federation during the TNG era was very expansionist. Boarder wars, new members and colonies were commonly mentioned.

Point taken but Empire still doesn't quite fit for me. If anything, the Federation was sort of a benign hegemony. I always saw the federation more as cross between an interstellar United Nations and Nato-like organization.

 

[F. King Daniel]

During "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child", Kirk describes what the Klingons do to subject worlds.
In Enterprise's "Judgement", Archer is put on trial for attempting to aid a Klingon subject race.

The novels go into more detail about this stuff. The Rihannsu novels describe conquered primative farming worlds, overseen by a small number of Romulans who rule by fear. The Final Reflection talks quite a bit about the role of slaves in 23rd century Klingon culture (unfortuantely, several aspects of that novel relating to Klingon culture and lifespan were contradicted by TNG)

 

[antiquityscion]

Well yeah, both the Romulan and Klingon Empires were just that...Empires. Empires are usually oppressive.

Which begs the question....how could the Federation and Klingon Empires have been allies, in the first place, without the Federation being a little bit hypocritical? In effect they turn a blind eye to oppression. That is all well and good for the prime directive, but when you have a "peer" government that you claim as an ally taking over and essentially enslaving worlds, sometimes worlds who are not warp capable, how can the Federation stand by?

Or were there stipulations by the Federation for the Klingon empire to not do that anymore, if they were to be allies?

 

[Paradon]

Kindda like the Obama administration that it was a humanitarian mission in aiding the Rebel...although, they did not specifically said they are helping the rebels overthrowing Ghadaffi and declaring war on Libya. Declaring a no fly zone over a sovereign nation is a act of war! They're just playing semantic to avoid the legal implication that no President can declare war without the congress approval. And then theirs the problem of aiding the rebels we don't even know. ARe they going to bring an era of peace to Libya? The CIA said that the rebels are part of the Islamist Militant who were fighting Ghadaffi and are part Al Queda. Great! Now we are aiding Al Queda! On top of that starting another war means that we are now spedning hundreds of millions of dollars and the cost is likely to tripple that amount as the war drags on.... You can kiss any plan to save money by cutting spending to stimulate the economy good bye! Plus, Libya has never never been a threat to the U.S.. Crazy? You decide!

The Federation is doing the same thing... The wiser course of action would be stay out of any foreign powers civil wars and only have diplomatic realtion and become their trading partners in hoping to influence them.

This is how a country or an empire fall. It spends too much resources on war...diverting all the captial where it is most productive to the war efforts. Tsungsu describe similar things that happened in China that led to the weakening of the Chinese empire...constant warfare and they were always building things. As a result the people were left hungry and starving...a large number of Chinese died when they were drafted to build castles and walls as defense.

 

[Anwar]

Well yeah, both the Romulan and Klingon Empires were just that...Empires. Empires are usually oppressive.

Which begs the question....how could the Federation and Klingon Empires have been allies, in the first place, without the Federation being a little bit hypocritical? In effect they turn a blind eye to oppression. That is all well and good for the prime directive, but when you have a "peer" government that you claim as an ally taking over and essentially enslaving worlds, sometimes worlds who are not warp capable, how can the Federation stand by?

Or were there stipulations by the Federation for the Klingon empire to not do that anymore, if they were to be allies?

Realpolitik, if having a huge military empire as your ally rather than as a neutral meant you had to turn a blind eye to them having subject worlds (though gently prodding them to offer autonomy or at least more citizen rights to them was still possible) then that's what you have to do.