imagining Nimoy and Kelley in Generations

[Khan 2.0]

In light of Nimoys passing I'm trying to imagine those opening scenes with Spock and Bones instead of Scotty and Chekov..

I know Nimoy and Kelly didn't want to do it as they felt it'd have hurt the goodbye of VI (& Nimoy didn't like it anyway declining to direct too)but It'd have been such a huge deal to have the big 3 in the film before TNG take over. and obviously you can hear Spock and Bones in Scot and Chekovs lines

Trying to picture the last scene:
Bones 'Mah God Spock was anyone in here'

Spock - "yes doctor.... there was"

 

[EnriqueH]

That would've been really sad to see Spock and McCoy alone.

Kirk is alone...

It also would've been cool to see De Kelley sharing screen time with Whoopi Goldberg.

 

[Khan 2.0]

It'd have been something of a pay off to Trek V for sure and apt considering STG was abit similar in plot

 

[Firebird]

In the draft of the script I have from October 1993, the opening scenes on the Enterprise-B were supposed to feature the ENTIRE original cast. They gave Spock a joke on the first page that seems out of character for him - Kirk & co. are all crammed into a turbolift and Spock says to Bones "I haven't felt this close to you in years." Seems more like a line that Bones would say. There's no Demora Sulu, either. Bones is given the teasing line to Kirk after he says "Take us out," getting the Ent. B on its way.

By the time they start dealing with the Nexus, Spock quickly falls back into his science officer role, asking to perform analysis from the Ent. B's SO. Scotty goes down to engineering to work on the warp engines for a maneuver after the first refugee ship is destroyed. Bones enlists Chekov as his nurse when they beam survivors aboard. Uhura assists the lieutenant attempting to beam the survivors aboard. Sulu takes over for the Ent. B helmsman after he's killed when the ship is hit by the Nexus. Bones does have the quick scene with Guinan in sickbay.

Following the Ent. B pulling away from the Nexus, Uhura has all the lines about the status of the ship (given to Demora in the final version). And then it's Spock, Bones and Harriman discovering the forward deflector room has been destroyed.

And, finally, this is how the last 23rd century scene played out:

36 INT. ENTERPRISE-B - BRIDGE

A short time later. Chekov, Sulu, and Uhura at their
positions. Spock, Harriman and Bones are standing near
one of the aft stations, listening to Scotty, who is
also on the Bridge.

SCOTTY
I've checked the entire ship and
the surrounding space... there's
no sign of him.

A silent moment. Bones looks to Spock, hoping to hear
some sort of miracle.

BONES
Spock?

Spock takes a moment... looks at the empty command
chair.

SPOCK
There is only one logical
conclusion, Doctor.
(beat)
The Captain is dead.

A long beat as everyone is forced to accept this
terrible truth. Spock sits down heavily at the science
station.

BONES
(quiet)
Just a quick... run around the
block...

SCOTTY
I never thought it would end like
this...

Spock turns away from them all... lost in private
thoughts.

SPOCK
All things must end, Mister
Scott...

Bones moves to Spock, and the two men share a very
private moment. Harriman finally breaks the stillness
of the Bridge.

HARRIMAN
Let's go home.

Sulu works the console and Harriman goes down to the
Captain's chair and takes command of the ship.

Spock and Bones exchange a final look. Off the
reactions of these two friends who've just lost someone
very dear to them both...

All-in-all, most of the original version shoehorned in the original characters. Uhura is barely given anything to do, basically the same with Chekov. Most of them were boiled down to cameos.

 

[Dukhat]

In light of Nimoys passing I'm trying to imagine those opening scenes with Spock and Bones instead of Scotty and Chekov..

It shouldn't be that hard to imagine, since most of the dialog would have been exactly the same whether being spoken by Nimoy/Kelley or Doohan/Koenig.

In the draft of the script I have from October 1993, the opening scenes on the Enterprise-B were supposed to feature the ENTIRE original cast.

Actually, that would have worked better if the opening scene was taking place during the decommissioning ceremony of the Ent-A, with the Excelsior there as well (basically picking up exactly where TUC left off). Everyone would have been aboard the Excelsior except Kirk, who wanted one last look around the Ent-A. Sulu as captain instead of Harriman, Chekov as his XO, Uhura communicating with Starfleet and the El-Aurian ships instead of Demora, Scotty at the transporter, McCoy rushing the El-Aurian refugees to sickbay, and Spock in communication with Kirk, who would be aboard the Ent-A, which vanishes into the Nexus to allow the Excelsior to escape. Ta-da!

 

[ClassicTrekker]

That's a very interesting take on the scene, Firebird. Very interesting, indeed.

 

[Khan 2.0]

In the draft of the script I have from October 1993, the opening scenes on the Enterprise-B were supposed to feature the ENTIRE original cast. They gave Spock a joke on the first page that seems out of character for him - Kirk & co. are all crammed into a turbolift and Spock says to Bones "I haven't felt this close to you in years." Seems more like a line that Bones would say. There's no Demora Sulu, either. Bones is given the teasing line to Kirk after he says "Take us out," getting the Ent. B on its way.

By the time they start dealing with the Nexus, Spock quickly falls back into his science officer role, asking to perform analysis from the Ent. B's SO. Scotty goes down to engineering to work on the warp engines for a maneuver after the first refugee ship is destroyed. Bones enlists Chekov as his nurse when they beam survivors aboard. Uhura assists the lieutenant attempting to beam the survivors aboard. Sulu takes over for the Ent. B helmsman after he's killed when the ship is hit by the Nexus. Bones does have the quick scene with Guinan in sickbay.

Following the Ent. B pulling away from the Nexus, Uhura has all the lines about the status of the ship (given to Demora in the final version). And then it's Spock, Bones and Harriman discovering the forward deflector room has been destroyed.

And, finally, this is how the last 23rd century scene played out:

36 INT. ENTERPRISE-B - BRIDGE

A short time later. Chekov, Sulu, and Uhura at their
positions. Spock, Harriman and Bones are standing near
one of the aft stations, listening to Scotty, who is
also on the Bridge.

SCOTTY
I've checked the entire ship and
the surrounding space... there's
no sign of him.

A silent moment. Bones looks to Spock, hoping to hear
some sort of miracle.

BONES
Spock?

Spock takes a moment... looks at the empty command
chair.

SPOCK
There is only one logical
conclusion, Doctor.
(beat)
The Captain is dead.

A long beat as everyone is forced to accept this
terrible truth. Spock sits down heavily at the science
station.

BONES
(quiet)
Just a quick... run around the
block...

SCOTTY
I never thought it would end like
this...

Spock turns away from them all... lost in private
thoughts.

SPOCK
All things must end, Mister
Scott...

Bones moves to Spock, and the two men share a very
private moment. Harriman finally breaks the stillness
of the Bridge.

HARRIMAN
Let's go home.

Sulu works the console and Harriman goes down to the
Captain's chair and takes command of the ship.

Spock and Bones exchange a final look. Off the
reactions of these two friends who've just lost someone
very dear to them both...

All-in-all, most of the original version shoehorned in the original characters. Uhura is barely given anything to do, basically the same with Chekov. Most of them were boiled down to cameos.

wow first ive ever read of that

 

[T'Girl]

It'd have been something of a pay off to Trek V for sure and apt considering STG was abit similar in plot

How are Final Frontier and Generation's plots similar?

 

[Khan 2.0]

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=10264183#post10264183

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

It'd have been something of a pay off to Trek V for sure and apt considering STG was abit similar in plot

How are Final Frontier and Generation's plots similar?

I think Kirks' STV line about always knowing he'd die alone, is the only connection here.

 

[Dukhat]

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=10264183#post10264183

None of those "similarities" you posted are all that similar.

I think Kirks' STV line about always knowing he'd die alone, is the only connection here.

But he didn't die alone. Picard was with him.

 

[Marsden]

But he didn't die alone. Picard was with him.

24th century, surrender monkeys don't count.

 

[Joby]

As a fan I would have loved to have seen Nimoy and Kelly play Spock and Bones in the Generations scenes, actually I would have loved to have had the entire TOS cast in that opening bit, especially some scenes with Uhura and Guinan. I remember Whoopi Goldberg being vocally disappointed that Nichelle Nichols wasn't included in that movie to have an interaction with Guinan, as that was the crewmember that inspired a young Whoopi Goldberg. It would have also been great to have seen Sulu be the Captain of either the Exclesior again, or even the Enteprise-B.

BUT,....I completely understand many of TOS actors not wanting any part of the Generations movies. Leonard Nimoy wasn't a fan of cameo roles, and since he didn't like the idea of Spock being just there to be there, De Kelley wasn't going to agree to show up without Nimoy. From a fan's view it was disappointing, but from the actors point of view, it was classy of them to stand their ground and refuse GEN as they felt they made their more dignified goodbyes in TUC.

 

[EnriqueH]

Oh, man, yeah, it would've been cool for Uhura to be helping Guinan in that early scene.

With Scotty already in Relics, I always thought it would've been cool to have Uhura instead of Scotty, and a scene with Uhura and Guinan would've been great.

Oh well.

 

[Lance]

I've always felt the oft-heard criticism that the lines were simply given to Scotty and Chekov is a bit harsh. Sure, certain moments ring true as "a Spock line" or "a Bones line", but it's clear that the writers did slightly more in tailoring the script to the different characters than simply redistributing the dialogue. The Kirk/Chekov exchange ("I was never that young." "No, you were younger.") is a very Chekov moment, as was the Kirk/Scotty bit when Kirk leaves the bridge something that I think works so well with Scotty ("Keep things together until I get back!" "I always do.") that I can't imagine it having been written for any other character.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I've always felt the oft-heard criticism that the lines were simply given to Scotty and Chekov is a bit harsh. Sure, certain moments ring true as "a Spock line" or "a Bones line", but it's clear that the writers did slightly more in tailoring the script to the different characters than simply redistributing the dialogue. The Kirk/Chekov exchange ("I was never that young." "No, you were younger.") is a very Chekov moment, as was the Kirk/Scotty bit when Kirk leaves the bridge something that I think works so well with Scotty ("Keep things together until I get back!" "I always do.") that I can't imagine it having been written for any other character.

that's true - liked both those moments

also it was something of a call back to the Trek III destruct code scene -- Kirk Scotty Chekov again. (only realised that recently when I read it on another forum)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I completely understand many of TOS actors not wanting any part of the Generations movies. Leonard Nimoy wasn't a fan of cameo roles, and since he didn't like the idea of Spock being just there to be there, De Kelley wasn't going to agree to show up without Nimoy. From a fan's view it was disappointing, but from the actors point of view, it was classy of them to stand their ground and refuse GEN as they felt they made their more dignified goodbyes in TUC.

That's the story that was given, but that's not really true.

The real issue with Kelley was insurance. Because of his health and frailty, Kelley was unable to secure on-set insurance and it would have been a very expensive proposition to have him as part of the cast. Nimoy, from what I'm given to understand, bowed of the cameo to give Kelley some cover and protect his privacy.

 

[Joby]

^I never knew that. That's sad news to hear that that's why Kelley couldn't be in GEN.

Do you have any reading material (articles) on this? How did you learn about this?

 

[Joby]

I've always felt the oft-heard criticism that the lines were simply given to Scotty and Chekov is a bit harsh. Sure, certain moments ring true as "a Spock line" or "a Bones line", but it's clear that the writers did slightly more in tailoring the script to the different characters than simply redistributing the dialogue. The Kirk/Chekov exchange ("I was never that young." "No, you were younger.") is a very Chekov moment, as was the Kirk/Scotty bit when Kirk leaves the bridge something that I think works so well with Scotty ("Keep things together until I get back!" "I always do.") that I can't imagine it having been written for any other character.

Actually you're right, the "I was never that young" "No, you were younger" does fit more with Chekov then Bones as Chekov was the kid with the teenage boys shaggy longer hair on TOS. To see the kid now an older man lamenting his loss of youth to an even older Kirk who was a heartfelt and touching scene. I was either a child or teenager during the TOS/TNG movie era, so now that I myself have gotten older and while I'm not as old as they were during their movie run, I can still relate to seeing these heroes discuss the human element of growing older and discussing the passage of time. This was something as a teenager in 1994 I couldn't completely get, but now that I'm closer to my 40s then my 20s, I understand how these characters felt.

The writers did slightly tailor it for Chekov and Scotty, but overall the "you and you you've just become nurses" is very much a Bones line and the whole scientific technobabble explanation of the nexus while more TNG sounding then TOS era Spock sounding is clearly something that Spock could still say.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

^I never knew that. That's sad news to hear that that's why Kelley couldn't be in GEN.

Do you have any reading material (articles) on this? How did you learn about this?

I don't have any sources that I can refer to you, unfortunately, though it is on the IMBD page for Generations, and you can take that with a grain of salt if you're so inclined. I wouldn't blame you.

My certainty about this, though, comes from a conversation I had with someone who knew Kelley and his wife. I was told that Kelley wanted to appear in the film for the fans, and he was disappointed when he couldn't.

Again, you're free to take that with a grain of salt, and I wouldn't blame you. It's hearsay, after all.