I'm new here, so Voyager fans help me out. Janeway's promotion???

[Xerxes1979]

The biggest problem with her promotion was she was put in a division that dealt with Romulan foreign policy, something she has NO prior history with. At least the very unlikeable Admiral Necheyev was considered somewhat knowledgable in Cardassians matters.

She could have made admiral in the sciences or worked on the Pathfinder project, but they had to have that scence with Picard in Nemesis.

Has Janeway been to Romulus? Was she there in TNG season one when the modern Federation-Romulan era began?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I just reread her scene.

I think it's possible that she might not have been in charge of the Romulan portfolio, but instead "protocol".

This was't forward planning or reflexive. The Romulans REQUESTED a federation representative ("Envoy") to observe the changeover of power.

She wasn't a mouth piece to her superiors she was just regurgitating the Romulan will.

The Senate was exterminated and illegal weapons technology was being used without reservation... Why the hell did the Enterprise run out of Torpedoes?

 

[CoveTom]

I have many problems with the idea of Janeway being promoted to admiral, but seeing her giving orders to Picard is not one of them. Picard was still commanding a starship because that is what he wanted to do, not because Starfleet didn't think he was worthy of becoming an admiral. I'm sure he's been given the opportunity on more than one occasion and turned it down.

 

[Vinkula]

Maybe off-topic, but about the cameo, it was first meant to be Jeri Ryan (Maybe as Seven Of Nine), but she was unavailable during the filming of Nemesis, so it was given to Kate. (And I am glad they did, I love Janeway!) (This info, according to Trekcore.com)

I have actually nothing to say about the promotion, because I don't know Federation promotion protocols, but I agree with someone (can't remember the username xD), who said that she made first contact with dozens of alien species, saved a lot of things etc. I think she earned the promotion, and as we know Janeway, I don't think she is willing to just stay behind a desk.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

I can't believe that the cameo was for Seven. Who's brilliant idea was that? Seven didn't come on until the fourth season. If they wanted to do a reference to Voyager Janeway was the best idea the whole time.

 

[Vinkula]

^ I think that too, but the idea was the writers. Let's blame Rick Berman, John Logan and Brent Spiner.

Here, what's said on Trekcore.com:
"Jeri Ryan was originally going to have a cameo in the movie, but she was unavailable due to shooting Boston Public. Kate Mulgrew was then given a cameo role."
(In section: Movies > Nemesis > Behind the scenes info)

 

[HoneyBLilly]

What was Seven going to do! Was it supposed to be a reference to Picard as Locutus?! Ugh . . . I wonder about these people sometimes.

 

[Vinkula]

^ Yeah, I can imagine.

"Locutus of Enterprise. I am ordering you to Romulus. Resistance is futile."

 

[HoneyBLilly]

LOL! That would have made Nemesis even more of a laughing stock than it was.

 

[Vinkula]

HAha, maybe. I actually liked the movie. As I love them all.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

I liked Shinzon. And the part with Admiral Janeway and Deanna and Will's wedding

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seven would have been a guest at the wedding. Perhaps as the plus one with her Aunt the Admiral.

maybe she catches the bouquet or Worf teaches her how to drink while she blubs about how the Indian dumped her?

 

[Vinkula]

^ Seriosly? Nah.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Then how would you have used Jeri in the movie Vinkula?

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Who knows what Berman or John Logan had planned. If she had been in it, it wouldn't have made sense. She wasn't in Starfleet. She was basically a civilian on board. Had she been in it the other characters who had been in the series from the beginning would have been cheapened because once again Seven of Nine wins.

You know, regardless if Jeri was actually in love with Braga, dating the head writer and Rick Berman's golden boy was the best thing she could have done. Seven became one of the most used characters.

 

[Vinkula]

Well I think she could have sended the Enterprise to Romulus. Who else then? It's stupid to think Seven got a position in Starfleet Command, but who else, if not Seven, if the Jeri's role / part was given to Kate?

 

[infinix]

After all these years, I can't believe the Picard fanboi's are still stressing over this

A 20 sec cameo for Kate Mulgrew - great! And for those who just cannot get over or show no signs of getting over this particular 20 secs of their lives, I suggest they edit it from their Nemesis DVD so they can pretend it never happened!

Janeway giving Picard an order is not why I have a problem with the promotion. Janeway giving orders to any captain at all is why I have a problem with the promotion.

Every positive thing she did was absolutely obliterated by her willingness to participate in a time-line/reality destroying act of her future self. Every other captain knew well enough to not mess with time-lines. What do you supposed would've happened if Sisko messed with the time-line to the way it suited him? How about Kirk and Picard? Whenever these captains were involved in a temporal dilemma, they seek to restore the time-line the best way they know how. It is unthinkable that anyone of them would actually create a temporal dilemma of their own choosing.

On a story-telling point, using time travel as a deus ex machina is probably the worse offense any writers can make. The good time-traveling stories signify that time-travel creates more problems than it resolves. But no, with one broad stroke, future Janeway, with the help of current Janeway, wipes out the future that was to be and replaced it with her version of what it should be. And the current Janeway got promoted for it. Seriously??? How is that consistent with all of the Trek we knew before?

 

[exodus]

After all these years, I can't believe the Picard fanboi's are still stressing over this

A 20 sec cameo for Kate Mulgrew - great! And for those who just cannot get over or show no signs of getting over this particular 20 secs of their lives, I suggest they edit it from their Nemesis DVD so they can pretend it never happened!

Janeway giving Picard an order is not why I have a problem with the promotion. Janeway giving orders to any captain at all is why I have a problem with the promotion.

Every positive thing she did was absolutely obliterated by her willingness to participate in a time-line/reality destroying act of her future self. Every other captain knew well enough to not mess with time-lines. What do you supposed would've happened if Sisko messed with the time-line to the way it suited him? How about Kirk and Picard? Whenever these captains were involved in a temporal dilemma, they seek to restore the time-line the best way they know how. It is unthinkable that anyone of them would actually create a temporal dilemma of their own choosing.

On a story-telling point, using time travel as a deus ex machina is probably the worse offense any writers can make. The good time-traveling stories signify that time-travel creates more problems than it resolves. But no, with one broad stroke, future Janeway, with the help of current Janeway, wipes out the future that was to be and replaced it with her version of what it should be. And the current Janeway got promoted for it. Seriously??? How is that consistent with all of the Trek we knew before?

You're not understanding the promotion because you basing it on the wrong things.

Janeway came back for the DQ with new technology, new tactical information on the Borg and new medical cures and technology. She also came back with with charts of the DQ and made first contact with more aliens than Kirk, Picard & Sisko combined. Due to allowing the EMH to grow, she also brought back home an new sentient life form. Bring Icheb to Earth introduced the Federation with it's first DQ citizen. Due to the Midas Array & Neelix staying behind, she has now set up two way communication to the DQ and a chance for Starfleet to spead it's boundies. What info she brought back on Voyager willl save and advance the lives of trillions in the Alpha & Beta Quaderant.

Janeway made no changes to any timeline that was negitive.
The writers don't write Trek to have endings like that, which is why they created the Temperall Police to correct such things. They were created because captains before Janeway were changing time and causing issues which was explained on DS9.

If Trek is about exploring strange new worlds & new civilations and boldly going where nobody has gone before, then Janeway fullfilled her quota to be promoted.

 

[Vinkula]

^ You emptied my mouth! My thought excatly!

 

[infinix]

You're not understanding the promotion because you basing it on the wrong things.

Janeway came back for the DQ with new technology, new tactical information on the Borg and new medical cures and technology. She also came back with with charts of the DQ and made first contact with more aliens than Kirk, Picard & Sisko combined. Due to allowing the EMH to grow, she also brought back home an new sentient life form. Bring Icheb to Earth introduced the Federation with it's first DQ citizen. Due to the Midas Array & Neelix staying behind, she has now set up two way communication to the DQ and a chance for Starfleet to spead it's boundies. What info she brought back on Voyager willl save and advance the lives of trillions in the Alpha & Beta Quaderant.

Janeway made no changes to any timeline that was negitive.
The writers don't write Trek to have endings like that, which is why they created the Temperall Police to correct such things. They were created because captains before Janeway were changing time and causing issues which was explained on DS9.

If Trek is about exploring strange new worlds & new civilations and boldly going where nobody has gone before, then Janeway fullfilled her quota to be promoted.

Everything you are describing is valid, but those are ends. Those ends, while valid, doesn't change the fact that Janeway achieved them through a means which destroyed a time-line. Through out entire Trek history, we are always told that the Federation has values above and beyond other civilizations and that to the Federation, the ends never justify the means. Suddenly, we are shown that hey, it doesn't matter how you reach your goal, as long as you reach it?

We will never know how the time-line is effected, all we know is that so much was changed the original time-line was basically obliterated. In the immediate, maybe Janeway saved billions of lives, but we don't know what the long term effect is. Remember in an episode of DS9 where a group of savants suggest that Federation surrender to the Dominion in the here and now because a better, longer lasting Galactic Federation would be born because of it? The future is unknown. We don't know the future created by Janeway is ultimately better or worse, and since the series ended at that point, we will never know.

If Janeway had found fought her way back through the unimatrix with the help of some random alien, I would have absolutely no problem with the promotion. But she didn't do that. She (the writers) decided to alter untold lives of untold billions for the rest of time by breaking the most sacred rule. The worst part is that she didn't suffer any consequences of her decisions. The writers couldn't stick to the established rules of the Federation and randomly decided to make Janeway an admiral for a throw away 20 sec role. That is my problem. The ends never justified the means. Not for the Federation.