I agree with you. The only problem that matter here is not that if Trek time travel can change the history or not, but whenever the show maker violate the canon of one TOS episode. And the power that prevent Pike to save himself is not because of billions of death consequent, but the enrage of many canon guardian fans.
If you're Pike, will you accept your fate for the sake of those children and Spock?
- Thread starter Brainsucker
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I agree with you. The only problem that matter here is not that if Trek time travel can change the history or not, but whenever the show maker violate the canon of one TOS episode. And the power that prevent Pike to save himself is not because of billions of death consequent, but the enrage of many canon guardian fans.
In the Star Trek "durable timeline" rule, it would probably be fine. Trek timelines can generally deal with...
* Random fatalities (Cochrane's crew, First Contact)
* Departures, as long as the existing person never married or had kids (Gillian, ST IV)
* Entries by future people (Rios)
* Past people being replaced by future people (Gabriel Bell)
* Money changing hands (Data in "Time's Arrow)
* People finding out the truth about you (pretty much every time travel episode)
A doomed person vanishing would barely register.
Who cares?
There's plenty of AU's out there. Kelvin timeline, mirror universe, Endgame, Twilight, Year of Hell... if one more forms, so be it.
On the other hand, I appreciate the concept of No Greater Love and sacrificing oneself for the greater good. So if Pike has to accept his fate, also Ok.
In the end, it depends on how the writers handle the resolution.
On the other hand, I appreciate the concept of No Greater Love and sacrificing oneself for the greater good. So if Pike has to accept his fate, also Ok.
In the end, it depends on how the writers handle the resolution.
I don't particularly see why Edith disappearing into the future would have a different impact than her death, but that does indeed appear to be part of the premise of "The City on the Edge of Forever."
Perhaps her disappearance without a body would have inspired greater interest in her advocacy, directly leading to a renewed U.S. pacifist movement in the 1940s similar to the one she would have led had she lived.
I mean, insofar as the "Great Person of History" theory ever has validity, I can buy it.
And it's also entirely possible that something similar to the Federation exists in that alternate timeline, even if the Federation itself does not. Here's a fun scenario -- plenty of others are equally valid of course, but I like this idea: Maybe in the Edith timeline, the U.S. never enters World War II, the Nazis conquered the U.K., there's a war of attrition between the Nazis and the USSR, and the U.S. ends up embroiled in a war of attrition with Japan that leads to a long, bitter nuclear conflict that prevents or significantly delays the rise of the computer revolution, thereby preventing Zefram Cochrane from developing warp drive in the 2060s. Maybe by the alternate 2260s, Earth has only recently developed warp drive, and a union of Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar evolved as a counter to Romulan expansionism in the 2150s instead of the UFP.
I agree that there are multiple scenarios and I enjoy alternate history and how Keeler's involvement made changes to history as it relates to Star Trek's own history. I think, as @Oddish notes, it could be fun to play around with in an AU sense. But, from the sense of Star Trek's own sense of history Keeler takes on that "very important historical person" and that her even living has that historical impact.
And I know that rubs the wrong way in terms of character choice, and agency the idea of fate, but it is what is presented in Star Trek.
Yeah. Kirk's obligation is certainly to restore his subjective history, but that doesn't mean 23rd Century Earth in the Edith Timeline is a Nazi planet or that there's nothing equivalent to the Federation at play. (Maybe without United Earth to mediate, it's Tellar or Denobula or Tandar who play the role of "honest brokers" between Vulcan and Andor, for instance.)
By the way how did Kirk know this exactly? All he really knows is he can’t reach the Enterprise. Maybe in the AU it arrives 20 minutes later with Pike in command. Ellison’s version dealt with this by showing the ship was a pirate vehicle.
I guess Kirk read the prior versions of the script?
I guess Kirk read the prior versions of the script?
In the Prime Timeline, no. But in a timeline where there might not be agents from the far future launching a Temporal Cold War to manipulate 22nd Century events? There might be no Suliban Cabal, and therefore Tandar might not have fallen into its system of speciesist authoritarianism.
It's just one scenario of course. Others are just as possible.
I would say that its not necessary.
If its so important to the timeline, Future Guy can send a Suliban to emulate me in disguise on that day while I retire quietly somewhere. And if something terrible still happens to Spock, again Future Guy can send a Suliban to emulate Spock to keep the timeline on track.
I say no.
If its so important to the timeline, Future Guy can send a Suliban to emulate me in disguise on that day while I retire quietly somewhere. And if something terrible still happens to Spock, again Future Guy can send a Suliban to emulate Spock to keep the timeline on track.
I say no.
In the Menagerie: "He went in bringing out all those kids that were still alive."
Can you help non-native speaker to realize, is this sequence from TOS describes the actions that future Pike made in his vision from DSC/SNW?
"Went in" means he wasn't in the room before the accident?
Can you help non-native speaker to realize, is this sequence from TOS describes the actions that future Pike made in his vision from DSC/SNW?
"Went in" means he wasn't in the room before the accident?
Yes, it can.
I might continue with the original course of action and save the kids from the disaster...but you can also be damn sure I would sign whatever DNR orders I had to so that I would then die on the table in sickbay and not end up in that awful chair (not knowing about the Talos solution in advance).
It doesn't matter since Mendez's account is almost certainly second or third hand.
Dying can have purpose. Edith was a saint to those she cared for, and they deserved the chance to show her their respect and say goodbye. Who knows how many were encouraged to continue her good work? If Kirk had pulled her out of the timestream prior to death, she would simply have disappeared. Vanished. Run away, and left behind those in her care. What kind of legacy would she have then? A forgotten one, more than likely.
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Yeah, especially since it seems that the fate of the galaxy depends on it and the Klingons will kill me if I don't.
I only question why the wheelchair sucks so much, at least rig it to communicate using Morse code.
I only question why the wheelchair sucks so much, at least rig it to communicate using Morse code.
In principle, it already uses binary communication.
We've developed a few fairly nifty communications devices around binary code, I think.
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