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If you wrote Buffy the Vampire Slayer...

3B) got rid of Dawn, who's purpose was over.

NO!!! :scream:

We love Dawn. :)

However you are right...unless she magically could become the next Slayer...which would be badass! :bolian:
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That also would be acceptable.

And, yes, with Spike as a Watcher (albeit from the other side, so to speak) and Giles having eventually gone all Ripper on us (remember this is the guy who murders Ben in cold blood after Glory is gone, just in case!)
 
I would have found some way to bring Dawn into the story without completely re-writing history. I really disliked the fact that the monks decided to turn Buffy's dad into a dead beat, especially with how much she loved him in the earlier seasons.
Did she? He barely ever seemed around, he couldn't have cared that much about his daughter. His absence was pretty much his defining characteristic.
 
Oh that reminds me, originally Oz was around till the end it was Oz that Glory killed not Tara. They only lesbian'd Willow cause Seth Green left the show.
But keep in mind, if Willow hadn't become a lesbian, Xander would have become gay... (Whedon was always planning to make one of them gay)... hmmm... I'd have found that even less believable. :shifty:

The problem is people don't just turn gay. Not Willow, not Xander.

Either it'd have to be a new character, or smeone who wasn't already established as being, well, as un-gay as it's possible to get.

Which would probably mean Riley - at least you'd have the excuse with him that he was acting purely under orders or faking straightness in order to not get any hassle from his superiors/fellow soldiers.
 
I would have found some way to bring Dawn into the story without completely re-writing history. I really disliked the fact that the monks decided to turn Buffy's dad into a dead beat, especially with how much she loved him in the earlier seasons.
Did she? He barely ever seemed around, he couldn't have cared that much about his daughter. His absence was pretty much his defining characteristic.

Well, he wasn't in many episodes, but in Season 1 and the beginning of 2 we see him. They definitely loved each other, and she got excited when he came into town for...her birthday? (it's been a while, I don't remember). And in the Season 2 premiere we learn that she went and spent the summer with him after she killed The Master. And there was one episode where he was supposed to come into town and take Buffy to the ice capades, but he wasn't able to show up, and Buffy was legitimately disappointed because it was something they always did together.

In the original universe, he and Joyce got a divorce for their own reasons, but they still got along, and he definitely still loved his daughter. Once Dawn arrived, history changed and suddenly their father was a deadbeat who abandoned them.
 
Oh that reminds me, originally Oz was around till the end it was Oz that Glory killed not Tara. They only lesbian'd Willow cause Seth Green left the show.
But keep in mind, if Willow hadn't become a lesbian, Xander would have become gay... (Whedon was always planning to make one of them gay)... hmmm... I'd have found that even less believable. :shifty:

The problem is people don't just turn gay.

People don't, but characters sure can! :p
 
I would have found some way to bring Dawn into the story without completely re-writing history. I really disliked the fact that the monks decided to turn Buffy's dad into a dead beat, especially with how much she loved him in the earlier seasons.
Did she? He barely ever seemed around, he couldn't have cared that much about his daughter. His absence was pretty much his defining characteristic.

Well, he wasn't in many episodes, but in Season 1 and the beginning of 2 we see him. They definitely loved each other, and she got excited when he came into town for...her birthday? (it's been a while, I don't remember). And in the Season 2 premiere we learn that she went and spent the summer with him after she killed The Master. And there was one episode where he was supposed to come into town and take Buffy to the ice capades, but he wasn't able to show up, and Buffy was legitimately disappointed because it was something they always did together.

In the original universe, he and Joyce got a divorce for their own reasons, but they still got along, and he definitely still loved his daughter. Once Dawn arrived, history changed and suddenly their father was a deadbeat who abandoned them.
I don't think we ever learned in the early seasons why he and Joyce divorced. Of course they were going to state 'irreconcilable differences', as most people do, because it's easier and you don't want to disclose your private problems to kids and everyone. We just know that they argued over Buffy's trouble-making (as seen in "Becoming" flashbacks) and that Buffy blamed herself for their divorce (one of her nightmares in S1 "Nightmares" was her father telling her what a disappointment she was to him and that she was the reason he left). "In "Conversations with Dead People", Buffy says that Hank was unfaithful to Joyce, but that's not really inconsistent with the earlier seasons, since we never actually learned the details of the divorce, and she could have also found out more from her mother in the meantime. I always got the impression that his visits were very rare, and Joyce kind of confirms it when she says in "Becoming pt2" about Buffy's Slaying (treating it as some sort of teenage rebellion): "It's because you didn't have a strong father figure, isn't it?" I see no evidence that anything changed with Dawn's arrival (and why would it?). Hank just moved to Spain with his secretary at some point, before Joyce's death, which is supposed to be the reason why he wasn't visiting anymore.

Giles always seemed to be the real father figure in Buffy's life, although the closest she ever came to openly saying it was in "Something Blue" when she asked him to give her away at her wedding, confirming that he was her 'father' more than Hank. (This had nothing to do with the spell, BTW, the spell only said she was to marry Spike, it said nothing about Giles.)
 
I wouldn't have made "Him", I wouldn't have had Willow and Xander as a couple in season 3
Now that's just crazy talk. ;)
Actually, I though that Willow/Xander and their mostly unrequited love was an important part of season 3's wonderful tapestry.

I would have found some other way of doing Evil Willow in season six. As it was, it felt like a retread of the Dark Phoenix saga from X-men. (Unfeasibly powerful telekinetic redhead suddenly turns evil.) It doesn't really work for the show,and in my opinion the show is saved from subsequent ruin mainly by its principal strength - that of treating past continuity as an ingredient for a good story rather than as gospel. Hence Willow's evil phase can be dismissed in season seven with the occasional joke.
 
Of the top of my head, my first complaint is the Oz and Faith treatments. We have one wolfy episode to reveal Oz, with no mystery and build up whatsoever, and he never really fits in despite being a regular in Season 3. Faith on the other hand, sometimes gets on my nerves, and for as much as she was around, she should have been the regular, not Oz.
 
I wouldn't have made "Him", I wouldn't have had Willow and Xander as a couple in season 3
Now that's just crazy talk. ;)
Actually, I though that Willow/Xander and their mostly unrequited love was an important part of season 3's wonderful tapestry.
I didn't really buy it, Willow seemed to be really in love with Oz by season 2 finale, and Xander had never had any romantic interest in Willow before. Unless he only became interested in her once she found someone else, which makes him look like a real asshole.

I would have found some other way of doing Evil Willow in season six. As it was, it felt like a retread of the Dark Phoenix saga from X-men. (Unfeasibly powerful telekinetic redhead suddenly turns evil.)
I didn't think it was that sudden. She was showing signs throughout the season - threatening Giles, brainwashing Tara... and before that in season 5 with Glory, not to mention the times in S6 and earlier seasons when she would resort to magic to fix her problems and make herself feel more powerful, and cause havoc if the spells went awry (like in "Something Blue", when she wanted to heal her broken heart, and was angry because she felt nobody was paying enough attention to her)... then there's the foreshadowing in her dream in "Restless', and of course Vampire Willow...

Of the top of my head, my first complaint is the Oz and Faith treatments. We have one wolfy episode to reveal Oz, with no mystery and build up whatsoever, and he never really fits in despite being a regular in Season 3. Faith on the other hand, sometimes gets on my nerves, and for as much as she was around, she should have been the regular, not Oz.
You can never have too much Faith :bolian: She's always been one of my favorite characters on the show. On the other hand, I really liked her episodes on Angel, so maybe it's better that it turned out the way it did.
 
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Did she? He barely ever seemed around, he couldn't have cared that much about his daughter. His absence was pretty much his defining characteristic.

Well, he wasn't in many episodes, but in Season 1 and the beginning of 2 we see him. They definitely loved each other, and she got excited when he came into town for...her birthday? (it's been a while, I don't remember). And in the Season 2 premiere we learn that she went and spent the summer with him after she killed The Master. And there was one episode where he was supposed to come into town and take Buffy to the ice capades, but he wasn't able to show up, and Buffy was legitimately disappointed because it was something they always did together.

In the original universe, he and Joyce got a divorce for their own reasons, but they still got along, and he definitely still loved his daughter. Once Dawn arrived, history changed and suddenly their father was a deadbeat who abandoned them.
I don't think we ever learned in the early seasons why he and Joyce divorced. Of course they were going to state 'irreconcilable differences', as most people do, because it's easier and you don't want to disclose your private problems to kids and everyone. We just know that they argued over Buffy's trouble-making (as seen in "Becoming" flashbacks) and that Buffy blamed herself for their divorce (one of her nightmares in S1 "Nightmares" was her father telling her what a disappointment she was to him and that she was the reason he left). "In "Conversations with Dead People", Buffy says that Hank was unfaithful to Joyce, but that's not really inconsistent with the earlier seasons, since we never actually learned the details of the divorce, and she could have also found out more from her mother in the meantime. I always got the impression that his visits were very rare, and Joyce kind of confirms it when she says in "Becoming pt2" about Buffy's Slaying (treating it as some sort of teenage rebellion): "It's because you didn't have a strong father figure, isn't it?" I see no evidence that anything changed with Dawn's arrival (and why would it?). Hank just moved to Spain with his secretary at some point, before Joyce's death, which is supposed to be the reason why he wasn't visiting anymore.

My point was that Buffy clearly liked her father in the earlier seasons. Whether he was around or not, she actually loved him, and it seemed like he loved her back.

After Dawn showed up, suddenly none of that was true.
 
Oh, and BTW... Gay, bi or straight, I wouldn't want to lose Dark Willow! Never! Willow always had it in her to go evil, and frankly, she was much more interesting that way! :bolian:

Yes, Dark Willow, or 'the only good thing to come out of season six, aside from the nerds'. :p I'm baiting, you don't have to respond to that. :techman: It's funny that someone should call the whole Dark Willow thing an X-Men Dark Phoenix rip-off. When I was watching "X-Men: The Last Stand" with a friend of mine at the movies, he said to me at the end, "This is just a rip-off of the end of Buffy season 6". :rofl:
 
We just know... and that Buffy blamed herself for their divorce (one of her nightmares in S1 "Nightmares" was her father telling her what a disappointment she was to him and that she was the reason he left).

I'm not sure why I'm chiming in since I've barely watched any Buffy (though I'm really feeling a hankering to lately since I do like Joss), but I don't see what this tells us. Children blaming themselves for their parents divorce is incredibly common; this would tell us more about Buffy than about her dad, no?

It's funny that someone should call the whole Dark Willow thing an X-Men Dark Phoenix rip-off. When I was watching "X-Men: The Last Stand" with a friend of mine at the movies, he said to me at the end, "This is just a rip-off of the end of Buffy season 6". :rofl:

Gah. That's especially unfortunate because an X-Man (Kitty Pryde specifically) was a major influence on Whedon when developing Buffy.
 
To be fair, once they came up with the idea of Dawn, and Joyce dying, and Buffy having to grow up and be Dawn's mom... you have to eliminate the dad. That would solve the problem they wanted Buffy to suffer and grow through. Not saying I agree with it, but that's the way it had to be to tell their story.
 
We just know... and that Buffy blamed herself for their divorce (one of her nightmares in S1 "Nightmares" was her father telling her what a disappointment she was to him and that she was the reason he left).

I'm not sure why I'm chiming in since I've barely watched any Buffy (though I'm really feeling a hankering to lately since I do like Joss), but I don't see what this tells us. Children blaming themselves for their parents divorce is incredibly common; this would tell us more about Buffy than about her dad, no?
I never said otherwise. (Yes, it was about Buffy, it told us that early on that Buffy tends to blame herself for all sorts of things and to think that she's always getting abandoned because there's something wrong with her.) I was just listing what we know about her relationship with her father. We never really learned that much about Hank. Yes, he completely disappeared in the later seasons, when they had to find a reason for Buffy to be Dawn's caretaker after Joyce's death rather than Hank... But it wasn't really such a huge difference. It's not like he was such a presence in the early seasons, either.

As for Buffy loving her dad, I suppose most children do love their parents - my point is that they just didn't seem that close, since he was barely around.
 
Wasn't there a definite turning point in Buffy's relationship with her dad? I remember one episode when he had promised to take her to ice skating for her birthday, then he cancelled and sent flowers. She seemed really excited about that, going on and on about it to her friends. Then when he cancelled, she was so pissed off that she threw the flowers in the garbage, and unless I'm forgetting something, she never really cared about her father again after that (with the exception of in "Normal Again", which doesn't really count since it's not real).
 
The problem is people don't just turn gay.

Beg to differ. I have a good friend who dated men until she was 37, then suddenly met the right woman. It was like a switch was thrown.

If she did indeed turn gay, and didn't just fall in love with a woman, I bet she wasn't drooling over men while she was with her girlfriend, hell, with her girlfriend right next to her, hell, saying how hot the guy is with her girlfriend right next to her.

How I would have written Buffy:

There would have been no "The Zeppo". During S2 Xander was research guy as well as able to fight, then there's him having leadership qualities as "Night Hawk". Buffy in contrast, did donut runs - which makes sense, especially nightly runs, vampires around and all. Therefor I would not break continuity by him suddenly being unable to do anything at all except serving as a meat shield and delivering donuts.

S4: Riley would have a severely diminished role, if he is even present at all. His story, would go to Xander, where it belongs. He kills a demon saving some Initiative soldiers, he's brought in, and Xander accepts. The Initiative becomes his new family, and will eventually have to choose between them and the Scooby gang. This equals: no cast bloat, and the theme of growing apart after highschool of the season, working so much better, being as it is now much more prevalant throughout the season, as well as tying into Big Bad storyline at the same time. Also; the whole choosing between two family things, and not knowing which is the better one, becomes much more visceral if it is with a character we actually know and love, as opposed to this dude that is Buffy's new hanger one that we know nothing about, and the dude not knowing much about Buffy and vice versa.

Spike would either remain a reluctant helper because he likes killing things; or he would get dusted when he crosses the line one too many times.

S6: Remember how Xander not once in the five years before that displayed any hint he was a Scifi geek? In fact, he was characterized as something quite different, like pretty much the opposite? Well, they just turned Xander into a geek to diminish the fact that Troika pretty much trampled all over the viewers of Buffy. Yep, geeks, who not only turn evil, but are completely pathetically incompetent evil to boot. That's ffing your audience up the ass on a level few have equaled. In my S6, the Troika would use their powers smartly - they would be extremely competent and intelligent. You know, the way they should have done, given their accomplishments. Also, they would essentially be Doctor Doom. When they finally are taken down, you gotta be wondering - if they had succeeded, would the world have been a better place?

S7: None of the giant ass plotholes you can drive a semi through - the First's plan for one thing, will stat the First's plan from beginning to end. It doesn't just seem to switch sides over and over. And oh, yeah, IF I were going to use the "share the power thing", I wouldn't equate turning a girl into a Slayer with raping her only a few episodes before, making the "sharing the power" an act of mass-rape.

Oh, yeah: one more bit of character-continuity preserved; check out Hank's loving concern over Buffy in the S2 opener vs. the guy that wouldn't even show up for his ex-wife's, mother to his children funeral - including leaving an underage Dawn in who knows who's care. Hank would show up from time to time, S2 opener's Hank, that is. But this is one more bad, idiotic Joss writing: MUST WRITE DARK FEMINISM! A father that cares especially if the mother already does? NOOOO!
 
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There would have been no "The Zeppo". During S2 Xander was research guy as well as able to fight, then there's him having leadership qualities as "Night Hawk". Buffy in contrast, did donut runs - which makes sense, especially nightly runs, vampires around and all. Therefor I would not break continuity by him suddenly being unable to do anything at all except serving as a meat shield and delivering donuts.

Agreed. While I find "The Zeppo" very entertaining, I never understood why they suddenly decided that Xander was useless. He had proven his skills more than once at that point.

That said, the idea that Xander wasn't very important made the end of Season 6 all that much better to me, with him being the only person capable of saving the world.
 
Oh, wow, a lot. Buffy is a show where I love the characters and dialogue and all, but I pretty much hate a lot of the plots. I do like through Season 3 more.

So suffice to say things would change tremendously. I'd probably have slightly less angst (though still a good helping, or it really wouldn't be Buffy,) and do more to explain and explore the Buffyworld with its demons and such.
 
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