If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done differently?

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

I like the last example, but it seems a little battlestar galactica for my taste. good show just not in a star trek setting.


I think the idea of a episodes long story arc where the ship encounters an alien race that repairs their ship would be excellent, especially as to how they got there.

I dislike the idea of using alien technology...Starfleet technology is very advanced and repairable with outside technology once you get past the compatibility issue, and is also very flexible. It would be a waste of time to learn how to use new alien technologies and to what extent you can use them too when they've got what they have at home.

One thing I never understood was WHY ARE ALL THE LIGHTS ON from the outside view?? They are CONSTANTLY on! Almost all of them. CONSITENCY PLEASE.

I also think I would've had some conflict with Kes and the Doctor. When she gets to the point of being almost as good as he is (her species is especially gifted mentally, learns quickly, and lives about 40 years.) there is an issue as to whether or not the holographic doctor is even needed. He's turned off, Kes takes over, then there is a story arc with that for a couple episodes.

The Hydroponics bay should have been a lot larger I agree.

Lower Deck characters should have been featured a lot more. It would've been a good way of creating plot devices and plot points without being overt about it, and it would make it a better flow.

Another thing....I would NOT have had the writing dumbed down. HOW many times was there an issue like a nebula having bio-peptides or whatever, and the command officers can't figure out what that means? Didn't they go to starfleet?? This is why they do that: because they thought WE were stupid. UHHH, flash, anyone watching star trek is generally smart enough to figure out some of those plot points. You don't need the main characters looking stupid to fish for a dumbed down explanation for us. WE ARE NOT STUPID!! And the fact that on this thread we've come up with better ideas for the show than they did in 7 years kinda gives evidence in support.

Oh and I'd TOTALLY get rid of Harry Kim. I just never liked him. I didn't like the actor either, I think he couldn't really act all that well and his character seemed forced. I would've replaced him with someone else, IE:
------Nog. It wouldn't be a totally bad thing to see a familiar face, and he'd be the first Ferengi in Starfleet. It would be fun to see his face there. Of course that means that the ship would have had to leave a litle bit later in the game. This might work. Have the ship around for a season or so, and we think it's another trek series. the BAMB!!! They're in the Delta quadrant. it would be shocking enough so the series would really pack a punch.
------I think that having a bolian as the ops officer would be interesting. we never saw much of them.
------A tellerite might also be an interesting touch as well, we don't know much of them either.

Also, since i'd rather have Chakotay be the counseler, I would propose one of two ideas:
------One, the first officer is another woman. tension there could lead to very interesting plot points.
------Two, have an ALIEN first officer, an Andorian would've been awesome.
------Neelix, as others have alluded to, would've been more shifty. More like quark but there is always something a little dangerous about him. I think i'd still like to see him as head chef though, it would be easy for him to listen in on other people's conversations and do mischevious things that way.
------Be'Lanna I would've kept more or less the same. Roxanne Dawson did a FANTASTIC job on her. I would've kept her a little more fiesty than she ended up being though.
------Janeway...i'd keep the same actress. She played that character with such strength, humility, grace, and heart that I don't think I would change a thing about her except maybe in private she's a little bit more shaken about being stranded in the Delta quandrant after having been active in the Dominion wars for a year.
------Tuvok...I'd have played him with a little less aarogance. Perhaps he was a Vulcan that didn't FULLY embrace non-emotion, but permitted a little here and there. A temper I'd include, because with the emotion comes his temper, and perhaps that could get him into a little trouble after being stranded. It wouldn't be a TEMPER temper, but he'd get very irritated and brisk and he wouldn't be shy about it either. Again, i'd have him as first officer and I'd probably give him telepathy as well. His species can do it, and he cultivated it over the period of 150 years.
------In addition to maybe becoming a doctor, Kes could also instead serve as the science officer. That would be perfect if she was relatively young and curious. If not her, i'd have a different character be the science officer. Human. ONE OF THE DELANY SISTERS!! that would be awesome since we heard so much about them and saw little of them.

I think Tom Paris should've been a little wilder. He could have been gay. It would've been funny to see a Jack like character (will and grace) but more serious and having been through stuff. Think of the wit. I think it would have been grand to have Paris be the gay, and Be'Lanna be his best friend. they'd fit like a pea in a pod. I don't think anyonne on the Command staff other than him should have been, but some of the other crew would've been cool. I don't think too many though, that could be a part of Paris' issues being in the delta quadrant...no love. He could've bonded with Be'Lanna, and for that matter Janeway, over that. And perhaps that makes him a bit more bitter than most people. If Paris is gay though, i'd have him played by a different character...younger, a little less butch but not effeminate, swimmers build, 5'11'' ish. Oh i know, someone like the guy who played annikan skywalker, the older one, in star wars. that'd be perfect. Or even kerr smith.

 

[Aquehonga]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

*Have them suffer more, alot more, & gradually, chaotically, due to lack of supplies & maintenance.

*Have more fatalities & injuries. Leave no one safe, including main characters.

IE: Due to Janeway's death, Captain Chakotay & 1st Officer Tuvok are the 2 top crewmen.

*Have them return home in a different, & alien, ship {rechristened V'GER} having had no choice but to abandon the broken doomed damaged beyond repair Starfleet V'Ger. That is, if they should come home

*Minimize Borg no matter what. 7 of 9? Have her on?

*Species 8742: keep, a great invention they are. SF Academy episode shows they're complex & reasonable, unlike Borg (& Founders, & many Trek baddies).

Keep'em, wouldn't overplay them or demystify them too much.

*Sigourney Weaver as Janeway? Very unlikely. How about Katherine Ross? Susan Lucci

Cast I'd leave as is (for now).

*............????.............

 

[Candlelight]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Everyone in a catsuit! Lots of space boobs! Even the women!

 

[Cyke101]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

I think the characters are fine as they were designed, but two words would be all that's needed to fix the show:

Consequence: Geeze, let's see some lessons learned from the crew, how a course of action had cost Voyager a nacelle or how Paris' choice scared his faith in himself or something. Wayyy too many things were forgiven wayyy too easily, and there's a reason why quite a few episodes are called formulaic (after all, they had to follow a formula!). Consequence of story decisions, consequence of choices characters make, consequence of Voyager's systems being taxed, consequence of villains, consequence of new friends, et all, it comes down to consequence. If, as Voyager's writers liked to sometimes shove down our throats, that the journey itself is sometimes more worthwhile than the destination, that's only because of the things you learn in the journey. Consequence further helps the plot of the show and forms how the characters grow and evolve. THAT's development. Which leads me to the next word...

Emotion: Janeway, simply saying that Voyager is a family does not make it feel like a family. A reassuring grin and inconsistent disciplinary actions against your crew does not make it a family. I hate how, whenever Voyager just barely missed a chance to go home (which in itself became a cliche), all the characters did was sigh in disappointment, glance at each other, and jump to warp. No, no, no!! Normal people would be tearing your hair out, getting angry and/or hysterical, moody, full of despair. The need to collectively pull themselves up by your bootstraps out of that pit of despair and reform as a veritable crew of hope is what would make Voyager a family, and consequently what would give the show a story.

As was mentioned earlier by several other people, "Year of Hell" was the way to go. We get the consequences of a seriously deteriorating ship and Starfleet bravado biting the crew in the ass. We also get emotion from normally emotionless characters: Tuvok's dedication to duty despite his handicap and Seven's desperation in trying to solve the riddle of the temporal torpedo. Imagine that, even the stiff-as-cardboard characters got some development! To cap it off, because to the ingenuity and determination (EMOTION!) of the senior staff and Janeway's perseverence, the day was saved.

I know it's unpopular to compare BSG to Voyager, but BSG recently came across a problem the Voyager crew encountered over a half dozen times. BSG has some major, major consequences from how leadership dealt with the problem because that situation was the culmination of years of hard work and emotion, while Voyager's crew simply shrugged their shoulders and pushed a few buttons.

Just getting consequence and emotion right would, I think, automatically solve every other problem with Voyager. With the consequence of Voyager being so badly damaged by the Borg, would the crew ever face them so often? With the fear of God hitting the crew via the Borg, would the crew ever attempt such poorly thought-out missions? Probably not in both cases. Then the writers would have to think up new villains for the show, and voila! No Borg oversaturation on Voyager! Would Neelix be so annoying? Probably not since we'd get to know him better and he wouldn't be so damn cheerful and nerdy. Would the ship look so clean with everything? Again, no, because consequence of so many weekly battles.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

A SPECIAL thanks to ruining the franchise brannan/braggagh (I HATE them.)

Yay. More irrational, ill-informed random hatred from Berman and Braga (I assume that's who you mean - come on, spell 'em right at least).

Reminds me of some one in the TNG forum, who started criticising TNG Season 7 because it was the start of the "Berman/Braga" years. Totally ill-informed. Luckily, others corrected him.

I'm not a sycophant, but the raging irrational and dare I say it, bandwagon-jumping hatred of two key staff from Star Trek lore is... amusing to say the least.

If you like any Trek made since 1986, you owe Berman at least some gratitude. Fine if you want to criticise (though explanation is always useful) particular aspects of his production work, writing skills etc, but just the whole "yeh, he wuz rubbish LOL" comments really bug me.

Braga - not so keen on. He comes across as very arrogant in many interviews; but he wrote some great TNG eps.

* I proviso this message by saying I haven't watched any of Enterprise, or much of Voyager beyond season 2, and I understand this is where the "Bermaga" hatred really comes to play. However, even if season 5-7 of Voyager and Enterprise were rubbish (I'll get around to watching them one day!), that doesn't invalidate - to me anyway - the hard and great work both men already contributed to the franchise. Berman, particularly, should not be demonised the way he has been.

And, to be a little on topic, like I said - I've only seen the first two seasons of Voyager complete. What would I change? I'd change Michael Piller leaving at the end of season 2! His ideas for ongoing storylines (like the Paris-as-traitor one) and trying to get ST more in line with other TV shows in terms of how it's made/presented (rather than resting on its laurels) were great.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

A SPECIAL thanks to ruining the franchise brannan/braggagh (I HATE them.)

Yay. More irrational, ill-informed random hatred from Berman and Braga (I assume that's who you mean - come on, spell 'em right at least).

Reminds me of some one in the TNG forum, who started criticising TNG Season 7 because it was the start of the "Berman/Braga" years. Totally ill-informed. Luckily, others corrected him.

I'm not a sycophant, but the raging irrational and dare I say it, bandwagon-jumping hatred of two key staff from Star Trek lore is... amusing to say the least.

If you like any Trek made since 1986, you owe Berman at least some gratitude. Fine if you want to criticise (though explanation is always useful) particular aspects of his production work, writing skills etc, but just the whole "yeh, he wuz rubbish LOL" comments really bug me.

Braga - not so keen on. He comes across as very arrogant in many interviews; but he wrote some great TNG eps.

* I proviso this message by saying I haven't watched any of Enterprise, or much of Voyager beyond season 2, and I understand this is where the "Bermaga" hatred really comes to play. However, even if season 5-7 of Voyager and Enterprise were rubbish (I'll get around to watching them one day!), that doesn't invalidate - to me anyway - the hard and great work both men already contributed to the franchise. Berman, particularly, should not be demonised the way he has been.

And, to be a little on topic, like I said - I've only seen the first two seasons of Voyager complete. What would I change? I'd change Michael Piller leaving at the end of season 2! His ideas for ongoing storylines (like the Paris-as-traitor one) and trying to get ST more in line with other TV shows in terms of how it's made/presented (rather than resting on its laurels) were great.

Did you even read my posts? Ill advised?

The show was more and more dumbed down, with even more frequent ways to get out of problems that should have been harder to get out of. When TNG was around there was also Gene Roddenberry around, so the show maintained some integrity throughout TNG and DS9. Voyager was indeed my favorite, but watching it NOW and looking back on it, it really was dumbed down like the people thought I was stupid. and for your information I know i was spelling their names wrong, i just didn't give a crap.

How many times was Voyager able to get out of a situation using the deflector dish? How many times was the problem some random anomaly? WHAT ABOUT the time that to cure Kes's backward time jumping she had to be bombarded with a form of ANTIMATTER???? COME ON! And let's just talk about Enterprise for a moment. I couldn't even watch that abomonation of a star trek series after a while. Photonic torpedo's, which were basically explained as photon torpedo's, 100 YEARS before they were invented? Phase cannons, which mysteriously looked EXACTLY like phasers?? A ship that looked like an Akira class, with almost exactly the same detailing in some areas??? And how about the over re-usage of TNG plot lines????

Sorry you like to defend them, but they were the runners of the show. The called the shots. They called the WRONG shots. They assumed we were stupid, that we needed dumbed down explanations, they assumed we wouldn't see that the NX-01 was a rearranged akira (akiraprise), they assumed that we wouldn't see they were burned out and had no further great ideas for the show and basically copied plot lines and ships from the past series and put them in Enterprise.

I mean HELLO????? Why do you think there have been NO NEW SERIES???? Because paramount won't authorize it until their contracts RUN OUT. They wrecked star trek by creating a series that wasn't even canon, dumbing down the show by OVER explaining the plot points (what did they think would happen by bombarding Kes with antimatter? A miraculous cure?), getting out of situations with complete ease where the Enterprise-D would've had a tough time even, recycling old plot lines like we wouldn't notice, and SO MUCH MORE.

I don't owe them crap. When TNG was around it was Roddenberry calling the shots. I think you've forgotten who the true heart and soul of star trek was, rest his soul. He was the one that made TNG great, he was the one who made DS9 great. Not saying other people didn't have a say, but those other people are also the ones that got Enterprise cancelled after only 5 seasons. It was the FIRST SERIES CANCELLED SINCE 1969!!! I mean that in and of itself says something about their management style.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

I don't owe them crap. When TNG was around it was Roddenberry calling the shots. I think you've forgotten who the true heart and soul of star trek was, rest his soul. He was the one that made TNG great, he was the one who made DS9 great.

Well that shows the depth of your knowledge on the subject.

Just to clarify my meaning, GR was really only in charge of TNG for the first two seasons along with Maurice Hurley, the years when the show was crap. Michael Piller was hired by Berman for season three, and it was he that turned TNG into gold. Gene Roddenberry was not involved with DS9 at all because HE WAS FRAKKING DEAD! Once again, Michael Piller was the main creative force beind DS9 in the beginning, but he handed the reigns over to Ira Behr back in season three. Behr was the person who allowed that show to be what it became, and Berman did indeed try to hold that show back.

And let's just talk about Enterprise for a moment. I couldn't even watch that abomonation of a star trek series after a while. Photonic torpedo's, which were basically explained as photon torpedo's, 100 YEARS before they were invented? Phase cannons, which mysteriously looked EXACTLY like phasers?? A ship that looked like an Akira class, with almost exactly the same detailing in some areas??? And how about the over re-usage of TNG plot lines????

Not. Berman. And. Braga's. Fault.

They really did want to push the limits with Enterprise, their original concept was to have the entire first season on Earth as Archer put his crew together and Enterprise was being constructed. Paramount refused to let them do this because they wanted the show to be like TNG which was the most successful Star Trek, so Berman and Braga were forced to make Entrprise look like a familiar Star Trek ship with familiar Star Trek weapons.

I have my problems with Berman and Braga too. Berman was farily conservative with Trek and tried to hold elements of DS9 back, while Braga was a guy who had good ideas but was poor in execution. When Braga focused on characters stories he was pretty good (TNG: Frame of mind, VOY: Projections, ENT: Shuttlepod One) he just had little interest in continuity and did some really bad high-concept sci-fi episodes.

They did some good and they did some bad, but they are certainly not demons.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

A SPECIAL thanks to ruining the franchise brannan/braggagh (I HATE them.)

Yay. More irrational, ill-informed random hatred from Berman and Braga (I assume that's who you mean - come on, spell 'em right at least).

Reminds me of some one in the TNG forum, who started criticising TNG Season 7 because it was the start of the "Berman/Braga" years. Totally ill-informed. Luckily, others corrected him.

I'm not a sycophant, but the raging irrational and dare I say it, bandwagon-jumping hatred of two key staff from Star Trek lore is... amusing to say the least.

If you like any Trek made since 1986, you owe Berman at least some gratitude. Fine if you want to criticise (though explanation is always useful) particular aspects of his production work, writing skills etc, but just the whole "yeh, he wuz rubbish LOL" comments really bug me.

Braga - not so keen on. He comes across as very arrogant in many interviews; but he wrote some great TNG eps.

* I proviso this message by saying I haven't watched any of Enterprise, or much of Voyager beyond season 2, and I understand this is where the "Bermaga" hatred really comes to play. However, even if season 5-7 of Voyager and Enterprise were rubbish (I'll get around to watching them one day!), that doesn't invalidate - to me anyway - the hard and great work both men already contributed to the franchise. Berman, particularly, should not be demonised the way he has been.

And, to be a little on topic, like I said - I've only seen the first two seasons of Voyager complete. What would I change? I'd change Michael Piller leaving at the end of season 2! His ideas for ongoing storylines (like the Paris-as-traitor one) and trying to get ST more in line with other TV shows in terms of how it's made/presented (rather than resting on its laurels) were great.

Did you even read my posts? Ill advised?

The show was more and more dumbed down, with even more frequent ways to get out of problems that should have been harder to get out of. When TNG was around there was also Gene Roddenberry around, so the show maintained some integrity throughout TNG and DS9. Voyager was indeed my favorite, but watching it NOW and looking back on it, it really was dumbed down like the people thought I was stupid. and for your information I know i was spelling their names wrong, i just didn't give a crap.

How many times was Voyager able to get out of a situation using the deflector dish? How many times was the problem some random anomaly? WHAT ABOUT the time that to cure Kes's backward time jumping she had to be bombarded with a form of ANTIMATTER???? COME ON! And let's just talk about Enterprise for a moment. I couldn't even watch that abomonation of a star trek series after a while. Photonic torpedo's, which were basically explained as photon torpedo's, 100 YEARS before they were invented? Phase cannons, which mysteriously looked EXACTLY like phasers?? A ship that looked like an Akira class, with almost exactly the same detailing in some areas??? And how about the over re-usage of TNG plot lines????

Sorry you like to defend them, but they were the runners of the show. The called the shots. They called the WRONG shots. They assumed we were stupid, that we needed dumbed down explanations, they assumed we wouldn't see that the NX-01 was a rearranged akira (akiraprise), they assumed that we wouldn't see they were burned out and had no further great ideas for the show and basically copied plot lines and ships from the past series and put them in Enterprise.

I mean HELLO????? Why do you think there have been NO NEW SERIES???? Because paramount won't authorize it until their contracts RUN OUT. They wrecked star trek by creating a series that wasn't even canon, dumbing down the show by OVER explaining the plot points (what did they think would happen by bombarding Kes with antimatter? A miraculous cure?), getting out of situations with complete ease where the Enterprise-D would've had a tough time even, recycling old plot lines like we wouldn't notice, and SO MUCH MORE.

I don't owe them crap. When TNG was around it was Roddenberry calling the shots. I think you've forgotten who the true heart and soul of star trek was, rest his soul. He was the one that made TNG great, he was the one who made DS9 great. Not saying other people didn't have a say, but those other people are also the ones that got Enterprise cancelled after only 5 seasons. It was the FIRST SERIES CANCELLED SINCE 1969!!! I mean that in and of itself says something about their management style.

Voyager was designed to attrack a crowd outside of the regular Trek fans base and more toward a Star Wars type crowd that don't over annilze every detail or have to be scientifically believeable. Trek is supposed to be about the social reltaions of people, not that the science & technology has to be understood. So nitpicking torpedos & ship design is completely missing the entire point behind Trek. Even the actors understand that point.

The Trek fans base is getting older and if Trek was to survive it has to appeal to a new younger audience to keep it going. B&B already knew the normal Trek fans base was to stubborn and resistant to change, so they they choose to market Voyager to a new audience. Berman worked side by side with Roddenberry for years. He knew what Gene wanted Trek to be and what it's heart and soul was way better than any fan sitting at home does. The fact the Voyager ran for 7 years and was marketable despite all it had going up against it is seen in business as a success story not a failure.

Gene Roddenbery had nothing to do with DS9. The man was long dead before it started. B&B didn't wreck anything that Paramount didn't already approve of. Paramount is the company they both had to answer to and get approval of any project from.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Um actually Roddenberry died in 1994, and DS9 from what i can remember was born in 1991....three year lapse there. I'm pretty sure he was involved. And in anycase, he was involved in TNG which was amongst the best series. And quite frankly Voyager was DEFINATELY the most technobabbled series I've seen thus far. It's actually one of the criticisms that I see more frequently than most. And how can you say he didn't wreck anything when enteprise was cancelled early? I'd say that's a failure. and so much stuff on that series wasn't cannon and the timeline was not even paid attention to really in terms of some stuff (phase cannons and photonic torpedo's, and the Akiraprise.)

I am certainly not opposed to change, I just don't think B+B knew how to any more than their older resistant fans. They followed a seemingly more and more predictable flight path. I joke with my friends who watch voyager with me that there is always an anomoly, and the deflector dish can always save the day. If there wasn't anything to joke about then we wouldn't be joking period.

Paramount may have approved of things initially, but that doesn't always mean they approve of the end result or what happens along the way. They still have to go by ratings, and as of Enterprise, the ratings had spoken and it ended up being the first series to be cancelled in over 35 years. I stand by my argument in which that speaks to itself as a failure on the part of B+B. By the time Voyager had ended fandom had weened. The new movie coming out is the judgment of Star Trek, and whether it will ever have another series. Like I said, paramount won't have anything to do with B+B, they wan't their contracts to be up because the failed hardcore, and FWI that's inside information, not something i read nilly-willy in some random internet article. And I certainly don't think them as demons, i just think they really failed in execution of Star Trek period. And didn't know that Gene Roddenberry had nothing to do with TNG post season two...i'd have to look into that, it doesn't make sense he'd put so much effort into a show then abandon it after only two years. And I'm also pretty sure that DS9 was debuted in 1991, and he died in 1994, the year Generations came out.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Um actually Roddenberry died in 1994, and DS9 from what i can remember was born in 1991....three year lapse there. I'm pretty sure he was involved. And in anycase, he was involved in TNG which was amongst the best series. And quite frankly Voyager was DEFINATELY the most technobabbled series I've seen thus far. It's actually one of the criticisms that I see more frequently than most.

Gene died in 1991n the same year the idea of DS9 was concieved, he died before it premiered. So no, Gene being ill & dying how could he have hands on info about DS9?

Yes fans bitch about allot of stuff and are usually incorrect. As far as Paramount is concerned, Voyager did well for them. A shows success it determined by sponcership & if it makes syndication rights. They are not concerned about if fans like or dislike individual episodes or their nitpicks, only that you tune in.

Fandom was going to ween at some point. How many spin off can any show have before the market become over saturated? (Law & Order & CSI are prime modern examples) Besides, how big do you think the Trek fan base is? B&B had nothing to do with ENT. failure, it was Paramount themselves. Berman in several interviews didn't want to do ENT. and stated very clearly we wanted a 3 or 4 years gap before the next serires. Paramount wanted to push it forward to push out more merchendise & keep the Experance running. Paramount is B&B boss not the other way around, if they didn't want ENT. Paramount had the last say on it not being made.

All you opinions are based on fan prespective, not actual actual way the TV industry works. If Paramount wanted B&B out of their contects so badly, they could have easily negotiated a deal to pay them and get them out of it sooner if they wanted too. That is why all those guys and the studio retain lawyers and consultants.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

true Voyager ended up being really great. After they changed Janeway's hairstyle to be more appealing and after they had to add a character who's tits made more of an impression initially than she did. I will say 7 of 9 ended up being well written and one of my favorite characters though..

And you're right about Gene's death. I had to look it up but i admit defeat lol. I was so young i got the dates confused. I was in kindegarted in that year.

That said though, even though Voayger was ultimately a success, Enterprise was definately not, and by the end of it was cancelled early. Not since TOS has that happened.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

And didn't know that Gene Roddenberry had nothing to do with TNG post season two...i'd have to look into that, it doesn't make sense he'd put so much effort into a show then abandon it after only two years. And I'm also pretty sure that DS9 was debuted in 1991, and he died in 1994, the year Generations came out.

Yeah, you're wrong. He died in 1991, that is why Star Trek VI is dedicated to him. DS9 was conceived in 1992 when Paramount came to Berman asking for another Trek series. Pillar was the main force in creating the show, although I'm not sure how much of an influence Berman had other than naming Odo. It debuted in 1993.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

true Voyager ended up being really great. After they changed Janeway's hairstyle to be more appealing and after they had to add a character who's tits made more of an impression initially than she did. I will say 7 of 9 ended up being well written and one of my favorite characters though.

You mean after Brannon Braga took control of the show?

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Kent, I wasn't particularly getting at you, though your post did illustrate a lot of what I find frustrating about the Berman-Braga bashing.

I think everyone has already corrected you on your assertions re: Roddenberry (in fact, he didn't even have that much to do with season 2 of TNG either), his involvement in DS9 etc. But I just can't see how you can deny all the good Berman & Braga did for the franchise. I'm not saying they did "bad" as well, but I stick by my original claim: If you like any ST post-'86, Berman had a lot to do with it.

I have to take exception with your claim that it's Berman and Braga's fault there's been no new Star Trek. The fault lies with UPN and Paramount primarily, (though Berman-Braga shoulder some of the creative blame). Why? Because they INSISTED firstly that Voyager arrive so quickly to "take over from TNG", and then insisted that "Enterprise" start straight after "Voyager" ended. Berman was for a couple years break. But he agreed. Perhaps everyone would have more respect for him if he'd jumped ship then and said "you're ruining ST, UPN, so get lost!"

But he didn't. Because of the money they were giving him? Maybe. Because he genuinely loved Star Trek having been involved in it for alost 15 years at that point, and wanted to do his best for it? Almost definitely.

The fault you COULD point at Berman by this point in his ST career was not recognising that he and Braga were creatively burned out and needed a fresh perspective. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I don't think it can be denied that Rick Berman is an amazing producer production-wise. But he is not an amazing storyteller or creative exec. producer. He works best when in conjunction with some one like Piller, Behr, or even Jeri Taylor. So, yes, I can recognise his faults, but I refuse to cow-tow to the bandwagon that insists we must hate "The Two B's" just...because.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

true Voyager ended up being really great. After they changed Janeway's hairstyle to be more appealing and after they had to add a character who's tits made more of an impression initially than she did. I will say 7 of 9 ended up being well written and one of my favorite characters though..

And you're right about Gene's death. I had to look it up but i admit defeat lol. I was so young i got the dates confused. I was in kindegarted in that year.

That said though, even though Voayger was ultimately a success, Enterprise was definately not, and by the end of it was cancelled early. Not since TOS has that happened.

In an industry where most shows today don't last beyond 1 or 2 seasons, having 3 spin offs (all lasting 7 years) out of 4 perform well is still a success story.


Braga isn't crying, it helped him get his new job producing FOX' "24".

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Actually, both Piller AND Berman were the main force in creating it equally. Where did you get this Piller was the main force and "you're not sure Berman did anything other than name Odo"?? Read a book like "The Making of DS9" (author escapes me for a mo) or even the DS9 Companion. For the first 2-3 years of DS9, both Piller and Berman were heavily involved (to the detriment of TNG Season 7, but that's another story...)

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

and mostly i would agree. NOT in the case of star trek though. Yes generally speaking it's a success, but in the world of star trek to be cancelled early for the first time since 1969 is kinda saying something about the direction of the show.

TNG, DS9, and Voyager went 7 seasons each. Enterprise only 5. Sad.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

and mostly i would agree. NOT in the case of star trek though. Yes generally speaking it's a success, but in the world of star trek to be cancelled early for the first time since 1969 is kinda saying something about the direction of the show.

TNG, DS9, and Voyager went 7 seasons each. Enterprise only 5. Sad.

I think it also says even the fans were burnt out of Trek.

ENT lasted 4 seasons, not bad for a new network whos other shows didn't even last that long.

Platypus Man?

Homeboys in Outer Space?

 

[Ezri II]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

What about an all female crew of Voyager and see how nice an all female crew ends up with each other after seven years.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Actually, both Piller AND Berman were the main force in creating it equally. Where did you get this Piller was the main force and "you're not sure Berman did anything other than name Odo"?? Read a book like "The Making of DS9" (author escapes me for a mo) or even the DS9 Companion. For the first 2-3 years of DS9, both Piller and Berman were heavily involved (to the detriment of TNG Season 7, but that's another story...)

I said that because in the special features for DS9 it was implied that Piller came up with the show and the characters and he was running it all by Berman. That's the impression that I got from it anyway. Plus, Berman only has two writing credits on DS9 and both of them were only for the story. The first was for Emissary, of course, and the other was The Maquis, which was a set-up episode for Voyager. While I know that Berman was involved and went over every script, he did not lead the writing staff, that was left to Piller and Behr respectively.