If you like driving, something to consider....

[MacLeod]

Whether cars are autonomous or manually driven, you still need adequate space between vehicles to allow for safe stopping distance. The only way a line of cars could all start and stop simultaneously would be if they were electronically linked together like a virtual train. In that case, what happens if the car in front has to brake suddenly for an unexpected obstacle?

True, but why can't they be linked together? Aircraft are linked together to a certain degree by TCAS which warns when another plane gets too close and orders avoiding action if needed. Isn't part of the reasoning behind autonomous cars to increase efficiency on our overcrowded roads? If the lead car has to brake or take avoiding action in a few milliseconds it can tell the cars behind to brake far quicker than a human can react which at best is ~215 milliseconds but that's the time it takes us to react to something, if we need to move from the accelerator to the brake it takes long hence the two second rule.

I don't think we have to worry though as it'll be decades before we reach that stage.

The problem with "progress" is that it's not always a leap forward.
To be fair, I can see the appeal of driveless cars for some. For me, I'd rather be in control of my own fate and while a driverless car may ultimately be safer, I trust myself. I may not be able to trust other drivers but that's the risk I take. I'm fine with it.

Quite often those most resistant to some of the changes are those who grew up without it, whilst those who grow up with a certain tech accept it as the norm. I suspect some where resistant to things which we accept as the norm in terms of safety feature in cars such as seat belts, ABS, Traction control and the newer techs such as cars braking themselves when they get too close to the car ahead. Don't get me wrong I can see the dangers of cars which are driven by computer, open to hacking to name but one potential danger. Perhaps in the future the happy medium is that if traffic is below a certain density you can take manual control and certain lanes on the motorways can be used for manual control.

 

[Butters]

Quite often those most resistant to some of the changes are those who grew up without it, whilst those who grow up with a certain tech accept it as the norm. I suspect some where resistant to things which we accept as the norm in terms of safety feature in cars such as seat belts, ABS, Traction control and the newer techs such as cars braking themselves when they get too close to the car ahead.

It is the way of things. That which was intervened before One’s birth is natural. Things Invented before the age of twenty four are cool, but anything invented thereafter is an affront to God and must be shunned accordingly.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That's called a train, & it among other public forms of transport will always be the most efficient, but clearly what's most efficient isn't always what people concern themselves with

Except for each car being autonomous and unconnected to others as need be (electronically linking cars to improve traffic flow efficiency when they're already on the same route is not the same as physically linking them), not following a fixed track, not having a set schedule where you have to wait at certain stops at certain times each day, being oriented around the individual or family rather than large groups of passengers, you can take one out for a journey anywhere and at any time you want, you own it so you can upgrade it however you like and keep your stuff in it, and you can allow anyone you want in it so it's not full of train crazies... But other than all that, yes, exactly like trains.

 

[Snaploud]

I was in traffic the other day while a bunch of idiot kids mocked us from an over-hanging bridge. They were dancing and putting an L (loser sign) to their foreheads.

Autonomous cars can't get here fast enough.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I was in traffic the other day while a bunch of idiot kids mocked us from an over-hanging bridge. They were dancing and putting an L (loser sign) to their foreheads.

Autonomous cars can't get here fast enough.

You'd be totally unencumbered to retaliate against those little bastards in kind. Pop out the sunroof and double bird it, or give 'em the full moon. See, these are the upsides of driverless cars no one thinks about.

 

[Mojochi]

Except for each car being autonomous and unconnected to others as need be (electronically linking cars to improve traffic flow efficiency when they're already on the same route is not the same as physically linking them), not following a fixed track, not having a set schedule where you have to wait at certain stops at certain times each day, being oriented around the individual or family rather than large groups of passengers, you can take one out for a journey anywhere and at any time you want, you own it so you can upgrade it however you like and keep your stuff in it, and you can allow anyone you want in it so it's not full of train crazies... But other than all that, yes, exactly like trains.

But that's not what @MacLeod was describing. I was just commenting on what another commenter commented, & what they described was a mass of automated cars being digitally linked, which is still a train, even if the track is a digitally manifested one. Even @scotpens made a similar statement. I was just adding my personal thought that people aren't always interested in what's most efficient. If they were, we wouldn't have an overpopulation problem

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But that's not what @MacLeod was describing.

Traffic collision avoidance systems (TCAS) don't mean you remove all independent capability to decide destination, it just means when you're in a tight traffic pattern the system will automatically maintain steering and braking so as to prevent accidents. You can still decide to go anywhere you want at any time you want.

 

[Mojochi]

Traffic collision avoidance systems (TCAS) don't mean you remove all independent capability to decide destination, it just means when you're in a tight traffic pattern the system will automatically maintain steering and braking so as to prevent accidents. You can still decide to go anywhere you want at any time you want.

Still linked, dude. Just saying

 

[MANT!]

Dammit..I want what I was promised back in the 60s... The 21st century we're in SUCKS!

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

failing that I want my fricken rocketpack...

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Still linked, dude. Just saying

And yet, not remotely like a train.

 

[Paul Weaver]

That's called a train, & it among other public forms of transport will always be the most efficient, but clearly what's most efficient isn't always what people concern themselves with

Efficient at getting from A to B at 9am. Not from C to D at 3am.

A bunch of self propelled units that couple together to form a train gets the benefit of both.

 

[Paul Weaver]

The problem with "progress" is that it's not always a leap forward.
To be fair, I can see the appeal of driveless cars for some. For me, I'd rather be in control of my own fate and while a driverless car may ultimately be safer, I trust myself. I may not be able to trust other drivers but that's the risk I take. I'm fine with it.

Do you operate your own choke? Do you mix your own fuel? Perhaps you use auto gears, cruise control, auto braking, etc.

You've already given up much of the control of your car. Where is the line?

 

[Herbert]

Do you operate your own choke? Do you mix your own fuel? Perhaps you use auto gears, cruise control, auto braking, etc.

You've already given up much of the control of your car. Where is the line?

Not only do I use auto gears, I manufacture them in my shed. Got my own gas refinery in there too.

Seriously though, I've drawn the line. I don't want a self-driving car. That's my line. I don't buy the argument that just because I can't control some things means that I should give up control of everything.
Having said that, I realize that there may come a day when I have to comply whether I want to or not. Hopefully, the tech by that time will be foolproof. (although, we know it never will be)

 

[Mojochi]

And yet, not remotely like a train.

In the simplest sense of cars that are linked... yeah, it kind of is. It's a word. We use it to suggest anything linked, like a train of thought

 

[Paul Weaver]

Seriously though, I've drawn the line. I don't want a self-driving car. That's my line. I don't buy the argument that just because I can't control some things means that I should give up control of everything.

Nobody will stop you from driving your own car. However if you want to drive on someone else's roads that's a different matter.

What it feels like is you want to continue to drive on public roads. There are already rules on public roads governing what you can do on them. In the UK I'm not allowed to ride my horse down the motorway for example. I'm not allowed to race my car. I have to have certain levels of safety like tyre tread, I have speed limits, I have to stay on the left side of the road, I have to meet pollution standards, I have to pass a driving tests, I have to pay various taxes, I can't drive while impared by drink or drugs, etc. etc.

You may think that "you can't operate a manually driven car in city limits" is one regulation too far, but if the majority disagree with you (and eventually they will - especially in somewhere like Manhattan where the vast majority of residents don't own cars), you'll be out of luck. You can still drive on your own land though, and I suspect in very rural places like dirt roads leading to canyons in Iowa.

 

[Gary7]

Whether cars are autonomous or manually driven, you still need adequate space between vehicles to allow for safe stopping distance. The only way a line of cars could all start and stop simultaneously would be if they were electronically linked together like a virtual train. In that case, what happens if the car in front has to brake suddenly for an unexpected obstacle?

They don't all have to be linked together. You can have advanced enough sensors with fast enough processing to react in mere milliseconds when it takes a human more than a second or two to react. Anticipation... which is very feasible.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Paul Weaver]

They don't all have to be linked together. You can have advanced enough sensors with fast enough processing to react in mere milliseconds when it takes a human more than a second or two to react. Anticipation... which is very feasible.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

You can remove the "thinking time", sure, however what happens if the car in front gets a blowout?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

You can remove the "thinking time", sure, however what happens if the car in front gets a blowout?

You're probably toast.

 

[Gary7]

You can remove the "thinking time", sure, however what happens if the car in front gets a blowout?

You're thinking old-school with regard to tires... modern self-driving vehicles won't have tires that "blow out."
Early trains had issues with wheels occasionally falling off. They were hard pressed to fix that so they'd never fall off, given proper periodic maintenance. And now they're so over-engineered, if somehow a wheel doesn't get its recommended interval of lubrication it will be OK, later making a more audible sound as a warning if wear is beyond an acceptable threshold.

 

[Gary7]

I love driving. The feel of piloting a road vehicle properly and successfully is so enjoyable. But... what I don't love is the substandard skills of other drivers. I've seen too many idiots on the road... that it kills the whole pleasure of driving.

What I think would make more sense in the future is where personal vehicles are no longer permitted in large cities. If you want to go to the city, you either take public transportation or hire an automated car. An automated car is far more sensible than manual driving, as you're free to socialize or do other things on the journey. If you're visiting from a distance and want to have your own private vehicle nearby, you simply park at a peripheral parking hub where public transportation and automated vehicles are readily available.

Automated driving technology is here, just in the midst of being perfected. Next is to make it more affordable. What we will see first is hybrid vehicles that allow manual driving but are automated where roads permit it. Highways makes a lot of sense for automated driving, as traffic risks will be minimal, especially if all vehicles are mandated to be in automatic driving mode. Older vehicles without the feature will have a designated lane for that, not unlike "HOV"... but will inevitably be slower, instead of faster. Eventually, there will be a point where fossil fueled manual vehicles will be outlawed on many major streets. Owners who have such vehicles will have limited areas where they can drive them... until the costs of ownership are just too unwieldy to warrant ownership (such as super high fuel costs, expensive repair costs, and significant taxes).