I always thought it was more the extra salt and preservatives that caused the issues with frozen foods. Good to hear though, I have a freezer full of foods for when I'm lazy and I always feel guilty when I eat them.
If you had replicator technology, would you still cook? (and other replicator oddities)
- Thread starter retroenzo
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I always thought it was more the extra salt and preservatives that caused the issues with frozen foods. Good to hear though, I have a freezer full of foods for when I'm lazy and I always feel guilty when I eat them.
I am going to presume the reason why quark had to import many drinks is because they required certain active biological processes that a replicator couldn't pull off. 99.999% of replicators on the shows couldn't produce actual life, but teleporters could.
That would signify to me your getting all the amino acids parts in a steak, just you couldn't do a DNA test on it, as it didn't replicate accurately at that level. You get what the body needs, but it isn't quite what you wanted.
Let's say Enterprise had a weird computer virus, transporters are down. The gift shop's big fancy replicator was functioning, and the ship your on can get a computer to computer lock on it, transfer you over on that. Do you do it, even in a emergency? Hell no. Why? Can you replicate Goh? If they can't even pull off making live worms, I'm not bothering to go through it.
I'm guessing it would get the rough outlines of my form right. Cartlidge and ligaments intact. Scars. But in a autopsy, especially once rigor mortis is supposed to set it, obvious oddities will occur. Body unlikely is going to decompose right. Yes, liquids will shifts to the lower part of the body, but will I stiffen? Unlikely. On the cellular level, I'm pure chaos, a soup.
I would assume a replicator:
1) Forms collogen on the 0.1+ picoliter scale, unlikely below it.
2) Gets the formulaic atomic mix into the right areas, say, within 0.01 Picoliters, but within that area its a incoherent mess, unlike natural food that is culled from a lifeform.
3) Simple molecules are easier than complex molecules, highly advanced foods, or highly complex electronics are going to be dependent on the computing power of the replicator. While it is tempting to say a replicator can replicate a replicator, not everyone has a engineer. Many are stuck with varied models, some are alien design like DS9. Just because you can replicate a superior part for a upgrade, doesn't follow it is compatible for your replicator.
4) If Cardassians needed biologically, say, complex Sulfure compounds in their food, their replicators are more likely to pull it off than a human replicator. If your smelling sulfur in human food, you dine fucked up. I seriously doubt rotting replicated food even gives off a sulfer smell for human replicators. Humans need certain things more than other species, so we can likely replicate certain vitamins way better than others who don't need this. These are engineering and coding challenges, likely egged on by demands of medical professions. I therefore presume that if for some absurd reason a ship "splurged" and "bought" one amazing replicator above the rest, it would be in medical- duh. Likely makes the tastiests steaks, cause it can go down to .001 to .00001 coherent patterns, or however damn deep it has to go to make medicines. But I suspect most starships just go universally with the best, if it costs nothing.
5) I used to live in Alaska, and never drink alcohol. A restaurant makes its own rootbeer in Anchorage. I can't say its fermented, but it is a sufficiently complex process in a giant metal container a storybtall, tastes quite different from Mug's, Barq's, Dr. Pepper. I'm guessing most replicators can't quite get the molecular cohesion right. If you jacked the power up, better CPU and scanners, maybe.
6) Data never scanned his damn body in, to make backup heads. You think Giordi would do that, after recovering his lost head laying on the ground for centuries. If I could make a backup copy before screwing around with something rare and precious, I would. But they never hesitated to replicate other electronics. Obviously less advanced. Suggests a medical Tricorder isn't following silicon based models of processing complexity and shrinkage.... if you can replicate a functional electronic device, it isn't running on a quantum level like Moore's Law would predict top line devices would in that era. Changes are, they took it in a very, very different direction. Data on the other hand, he seems to be closer to that kind of unnerving complexity. I would trust a transporter for him, not a replicator. Hence why you don't see hundreds of Data Androids running around in emergencies. If a soldier was facing 500 to 1 odds, he would just make 1000 of himself. Simple math, but worthless if nothing replicated survived.
7) I presume on a picoliter scale, you cut into a steak, with repeating patterns of collogen (likely has USS Enterprise or Voyager printed on it, under a microscope, like uniforms do), and it will cut like a normal steak, but instead of a exact replica of that collogen, its a generic psttern. It can vary this as needed and demanded- that's what we get bored with, cloned looks. What the replicator needs when scanning and replicating is to get the stuff roughly where it belongs. This way, when you cut a steak, it bleeds slowly if medium to lesser rare, like a real steak would. Doubt it can get past this module, area approach. I don't know if a replicator thinks in terms of slices stacked like Chryssipus' Cone, and does a grid map, or polar map- or if it maps in 3D space using another mapping technique. It needs something of the sort for varying food for novel requests. Likely a lot of variation here. It be a interesting storyline for a Banach Tardski Paradox, ask from a pie, say make it different, and to comes out massive overfilling a shuttle bay due to a spacial anomally near a black hole overriding a safety protocol. I can see a episode like that in the future. Organ printers today print the collogen form of a organ in a grid pattern, then spray seed cells level by level.
8) Metals, like a steel bar or alloy, likely were the original focus of most replicators. I believe that's all replicators did in Kirk's time. In some ways, it seems harder to make a titanium pipe than a steak, but programmers and engineers worked on that first. Food likely was just a workplace side effect of a engineers passing some diswantedbfoodvat lunch through a industrial replicator to see what happens. I suspect it sucked. The replicators we have today are aimed unlike star treks, at creating life, but are basically just desk top printers, not creating anything of finesse, much less matter to energy exchanges. Its theoretically possible to replicate a sandwich, hut its gonna rot prior to finishing.
9) Advanced warheads likely require a absurdly advanced level of precision, using very heavy allows of atoms that last for microseconds if not properly cared to on a scale that a replicator unable to make a live Klingnon dish could ever hope to provide. Ships might not be able to generate that much energy without blowing out systems. The replicator might he largerbthan enterprise. Its a order of complexity Picard can't tug around with him.
That would signify to me your getting all the amino acids parts in a steak, just you couldn't do a DNA test on it, as it didn't replicate accurately at that level. You get what the body needs, but it isn't quite what you wanted.
Let's say Enterprise had a weird computer virus, transporters are down. The gift shop's big fancy replicator was functioning, and the ship your on can get a computer to computer lock on it, transfer you over on that. Do you do it, even in a emergency? Hell no. Why? Can you replicate Goh? If they can't even pull off making live worms, I'm not bothering to go through it.
I'm guessing it would get the rough outlines of my form right. Cartlidge and ligaments intact. Scars. But in a autopsy, especially once rigor mortis is supposed to set it, obvious oddities will occur. Body unlikely is going to decompose right. Yes, liquids will shifts to the lower part of the body, but will I stiffen? Unlikely. On the cellular level, I'm pure chaos, a soup.
I would assume a replicator:
1) Forms collogen on the 0.1+ picoliter scale, unlikely below it.
2) Gets the formulaic atomic mix into the right areas, say, within 0.01 Picoliters, but within that area its a incoherent mess, unlike natural food that is culled from a lifeform.
3) Simple molecules are easier than complex molecules, highly advanced foods, or highly complex electronics are going to be dependent on the computing power of the replicator. While it is tempting to say a replicator can replicate a replicator, not everyone has a engineer. Many are stuck with varied models, some are alien design like DS9. Just because you can replicate a superior part for a upgrade, doesn't follow it is compatible for your replicator.
4) If Cardassians needed biologically, say, complex Sulfure compounds in their food, their replicators are more likely to pull it off than a human replicator. If your smelling sulfur in human food, you dine fucked up. I seriously doubt rotting replicated food even gives off a sulfer smell for human replicators. Humans need certain things more than other species, so we can likely replicate certain vitamins way better than others who don't need this. These are engineering and coding challenges, likely egged on by demands of medical professions. I therefore presume that if for some absurd reason a ship "splurged" and "bought" one amazing replicator above the rest, it would be in medical- duh. Likely makes the tastiests steaks, cause it can go down to .001 to .00001 coherent patterns, or however damn deep it has to go to make medicines. But I suspect most starships just go universally with the best, if it costs nothing.
5) I used to live in Alaska, and never drink alcohol. A restaurant makes its own rootbeer in Anchorage. I can't say its fermented, but it is a sufficiently complex process in a giant metal container a storybtall, tastes quite different from Mug's, Barq's, Dr. Pepper. I'm guessing most replicators can't quite get the molecular cohesion right. If you jacked the power up, better CPU and scanners, maybe.
6) Data never scanned his damn body in, to make backup heads. You think Giordi would do that, after recovering his lost head laying on the ground for centuries. If I could make a backup copy before screwing around with something rare and precious, I would. But they never hesitated to replicate other electronics. Obviously less advanced. Suggests a medical Tricorder isn't following silicon based models of processing complexity and shrinkage.... if you can replicate a functional electronic device, it isn't running on a quantum level like Moore's Law would predict top line devices would in that era. Changes are, they took it in a very, very different direction. Data on the other hand, he seems to be closer to that kind of unnerving complexity. I would trust a transporter for him, not a replicator. Hence why you don't see hundreds of Data Androids running around in emergencies. If a soldier was facing 500 to 1 odds, he would just make 1000 of himself. Simple math, but worthless if nothing replicated survived.
7) I presume on a picoliter scale, you cut into a steak, with repeating patterns of collogen (likely has USS Enterprise or Voyager printed on it, under a microscope, like uniforms do), and it will cut like a normal steak, but instead of a exact replica of that collogen, its a generic psttern. It can vary this as needed and demanded- that's what we get bored with, cloned looks. What the replicator needs when scanning and replicating is to get the stuff roughly where it belongs. This way, when you cut a steak, it bleeds slowly if medium to lesser rare, like a real steak would. Doubt it can get past this module, area approach. I don't know if a replicator thinks in terms of slices stacked like Chryssipus' Cone, and does a grid map, or polar map- or if it maps in 3D space using another mapping technique. It needs something of the sort for varying food for novel requests. Likely a lot of variation here. It be a interesting storyline for a Banach Tardski Paradox, ask from a pie, say make it different, and to comes out massive overfilling a shuttle bay due to a spacial anomally near a black hole overriding a safety protocol. I can see a episode like that in the future. Organ printers today print the collogen form of a organ in a grid pattern, then spray seed cells level by level.
8) Metals, like a steel bar or alloy, likely were the original focus of most replicators. I believe that's all replicators did in Kirk's time. In some ways, it seems harder to make a titanium pipe than a steak, but programmers and engineers worked on that first. Food likely was just a workplace side effect of a engineers passing some diswantedbfoodvat lunch through a industrial replicator to see what happens. I suspect it sucked. The replicators we have today are aimed unlike star treks, at creating life, but are basically just desk top printers, not creating anything of finesse, much less matter to energy exchanges. Its theoretically possible to replicate a sandwich, hut its gonna rot prior to finishing.
9) Advanced warheads likely require a absurdly advanced level of precision, using very heavy allows of atoms that last for microseconds if not properly cared to on a scale that a replicator unable to make a live Klingnon dish could ever hope to provide. Ships might not be able to generate that much energy without blowing out systems. The replicator might he largerbthan enterprise. Its a order of complexity Picard can't tug around with him.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/RadicalCircle_1000.gif
I can't edit my posts, so if I can't make the image come through, click the link.
Say a ship's replicator wanted to replicate this molecular pattern: C1, C2, C3- because C1->C2, C1->C3, C3->C1 are three vital compounds a human body needs. Its microscopic, we can't see it. A transporter can make the pattern exactly, using R to bind it like in real food.
Replicators aren't sophisticated enough to to R. If you get a advanced science model, sometimes R, but C1,C2,C3 aren't gonna come out linked enough timed per given area/picoliter to matter for many processes. Remember, everything is being jammed together seemingly at once, at least as nearly instantly, human eyes just see a bit of transparent blurring.
Some replicators might excel at C1->R->C2 bindings, but for whatever absurd reason can't get a whole set that makes your mango taste just right when you bite into it, and it gushes.
One scientist might have a replicator that does a aspect really good C1-C2, while another does C2-C3, while a entire other does C1-C3.
A restaurant reliant on replicated and naturally grown foods might say "we need to use these spices, can't be easily bought, only one kind of replicator makes these spices/fruits right. We only have limited kitchen space, can't have a bulky replicator doing everything, have to be selective".
Could very well be that Captain Sisko's dad used replicator foods in parts of his dishes. Would you insist on harvested salt if a replicator could make that ingredient exactingly? Unlikely.
I'm sure a lot of markets existed for stuff that couldn't be replicated, or required a odd replicator most wouldn't need. Deep Space Nine likely didn't have the best human made food, some foods undoubtedly tasted better on the Defiant. I suspect overwhelmingly most tasted identically. Federation is unlikely to hold replicator codes and mods secret between other worlds who had near ewuivelent tech.
Now, could captain archer's protein synthesizer do things a DS9 replicator couldn't? Quite possibly, I don't think it was a transporter based tech, likely grew proteins through simulated natural processes. Might still have some essential medical applications in later eras. I really don't know. You can today eat (absurdly expensive) petri grown beef patties, it has a similar role as a food replicator for when we get hungry- but a beef vat creates life, replicator merely simulates the form, and that form isn't always exact, very unlikely to qualify as life. Petri dish beef is alive. A later technology isn't necessarily built on a earlier one when trying to fulfill a need, nor does that earlier technology necessarily die off. Like Ibn Khaldun the medieval philosopher noted, sometimes civilizations preserve older crafts and they survive in skillset for a time after the main industry dies off, vistigial, because people already possess that complex skill set and haven't quite lost it yet, due to pride or new use for it.
Older ways, some still futuristic to us, of making food, such as Hibachi cooking, or computer made food like that Carl Jr. machine from Idiocracy, still may exist.
Intact, hibachi chefs in the future might need unique kinds of replicator meats artificially created just to cook right on a grill after being replicated. I'm not sure if you can just toss a uncooked steak into a replicator, replicate it, grill it, and have a good looking, tasty steak. Might not behave like a steak should when cooked- but I'm sure chefs would of noted this, focused on work arounds. The culture of distrusting or disliking replicator food likely comes from early commercial flops in people trying such things. We know dehydrated potato flakes don't taste the same as fresh mashed potatoes made from scratch.
I've done a absurd amount of research in printing stuff over the years. I can't answer stuff on lasers, but printing stuff in general I'm interested. My two posts here aren't canon at all, but doubt anyone has thought about it as in depth as I have here on this site. I'm that boring of a person.
I love the replicator and find the societal impact of such a technology very fascinating. Michio Kaku, for example, provides a really interesting discussion around the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzgVWpa4fzU
However, when watching Star Trek, I always wondered what they do with all the leftover stuff from the replicator? For example, glasses, plates...what do they do with them when having finished that drink or meal?
However, when watching Star Trek, I always wondered what they do with all the leftover stuff from the replicator? For example, glasses, plates...what do they do with them when having finished that drink or meal?
They put it back into the replicator and recycle it back into raw material. It was mentioned a few times on-screen, and at least once in Voyager, in the episode "Fair Haven," we actually see a replicator being used as a glorified trash-can.
Thanks for the info, David! Really interesting. I'm a Trek newbie and have only watched the TOS films and halfway through TNG, so I guess I have just not come across it
The replicator could probably make leaf salad that tastes like chocolate, and cheesecake that is shrimp and cocktail sauce favored.
And to the original question of the thread: If you had replicator technology, would you still cook?
My answer is no, I would be happy to save the time
My answer is no, I would be happy to save the time
Or a steak that tastes like bubble gum flavored ice cream.
Endless possibilities for pranks to play on dinner guests.
Kor
What about the size of the objects that can be created with a replicator? The machine itself seems to be designed for replicating/creating/producing food-sized objects, but I guess the technology would be the same for any items, let's say, a bed, sofa, or car? In other words, is there a limit to what they can/do replicate in Star Trek? With a big enough replicator I guess anything could be replicated, or am I missing something? Big replicators would not fit on the ship of course, but they could be used on Earth or starbase?
At no point in DS9 did anyone ever ask for a price list at Quark's. There was the occasional mention of a bar tab (Morn always paid his, Sisko once ordered a round on his, etc.) but there were no real transactional events that we saw. For Quark, I figure he ran it like most casinos would. They come to gamble and have fun in the holosuites upstairs, which would be pay-to-use; the basic (replicated) food was on the house, and the "real" drinks and such made from "real" ingredients would incur a market-commensurate fee. Don't like that? The replimat seemed to be free for anyone to use, and other restaurants like the Klingon one down the way may have been a paid establishment so the guy could get in his fresh gagh and other creepy crawlies.
Mark
Mark
I think there were some references to industrial replicators. I can't remember any details, though.
Kor
Casinos (the big ones) will "comp" you with drinks, food, rooms, gift cards, and special access to facilities. But that's if you're gambling large.
If you're just staying there, or have come in to a dance club, or a restaurant you will be paying.
So, I do think that Quark charges Starfleet and others for food and drink and use of holosuites. Although yes he might comp gamblers.
What the show's technical writers/advisors said was the Enterprise D only had two fairly huge replicators (one in the saucer - one in the engineering hull), and what you saw in various rooms were just "receivers."
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Thanks for the info, I didn't know there was a "receiver" part to the replicator!
I refer to the little remote control for my garage door opener, as the garage door opener.
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