Kim= the 
character ever.
The character is just pointless.
character ever.The character is just pointless.
If Voyager's finale had left them back in Kazon territory
- Thread starter DodgerFan
- Start date
Kim= the
The character is just pointless.
I agree! Harry Kim was just there to be Voyager's bitch!
I agree, it would have been awesome, if the time travel elements had been completely dumped too. Seven of Nine was all they needed to figure out what the implications of the hub were. I don't believe the tactical advantages of the future tech were essential to the story either. I'm sure the writers could have cooked up some way to destroy the conduit using only present-day Voyager tech.
Seriously! They were a bunch of thugs with tech. Led by a women when they hated women and yet she was smarter than all of them combined. THUGS
If they landed back in Kazon territory, it would have sucked.
However, if they somehow overshot home into another unexplored quadrant - that would have been interesting, especially if it was not a massive miss but more like 15-20k light years or something. They could have gotten some mileage out of that, while still being on a mission and still having something new to explore but not too far from home.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Well, they looked like they shampoo'd with Italian Salad Dressing. Not really sure the bar was set very high to begin with for their overall intelligence.
I thought they were copies of Klingons without the sense of honor, without the capacity for intelligence that happened to bicker a lot and have no respect for women. I even wondered quite often how such a species ever made it to warp theory. I don't think it's actually possible that they had scientists given how they were presented. In fact, at this moment I'm convinced that they somehow managed to kill off a species and steal their tech. Perhaps from the ones that wanted to kill them in that meeting Janeway had. They were the dumbest species ever encountered by Voyager. Perhaps the whole federation. Quite deserving of annihilation.
Well, it WAS mentioned that the ships and technology the Kazon were using were originally made by the Trabe.
I think both species developed on the same planet, but because the Kazon were treated like dirt (which was effectively said on-screen), it's only logical the oppressed would rise up and fight back.
The Trabe were defeated, and the Kazon took their technology and ships.
Or it's possible the Trabe developed on a separate planet and then conquered the Kazon who eventually fought back and defeated the Trabe (though I think that officially we have not been told if they developed on separate planets or the same - we know the Trabe lived in luxury while the Kazon in poverty and dirt - so either theory can be accurate).
As for the Kazon taking over Earth...
Lol... SF is technologically more advanced than the Kazon and we are talking of a fleet of ships that the Kazon would have to face (which would imply cooperation between the sects, and that's something the Kazon weren't good at doing - then again, things could have changed in the meantime).
Either way, the Kazon wouldn't be able to go up against Earth or SF.
I think both species developed on the same planet, but because the Kazon were treated like dirt (which was effectively said on-screen), it's only logical the oppressed would rise up and fight back.
The Trabe were defeated, and the Kazon took their technology and ships.
Or it's possible the Trabe developed on a separate planet and then conquered the Kazon who eventually fought back and defeated the Trabe (though I think that officially we have not been told if they developed on separate planets or the same - we know the Trabe lived in luxury while the Kazon in poverty and dirt - so either theory can be accurate).
As for the Kazon taking over Earth...
Lol... SF is technologically more advanced than the Kazon and we are talking of a fleet of ships that the Kazon would have to face (which would imply cooperation between the sects, and that's something the Kazon weren't good at doing - then again, things could have changed in the meantime).
Either way, the Kazon wouldn't be able to go up against Earth or SF.
I was originally underwhelmed by "Endgame", with them crossing the finish line, just as the episode finished. It's grown on me since after the couple of shit fest goodbyes to other generations that came after. But anything like forever stranding them in the Delta Quadrant, would've proved to be an even more pointless conclusion than the next series got.
"Endgame" is underrated and that's basically down to it being "Timeless" with Janeway unhappy with her happy ending, instead of Kim miserable with his survivor guilt. But the good thing is you do sort of see what these characters will be getting up to once they get home. So it looks like a masterfully written swansong to the modern era compared to say, Star Trek Nemesis.
I didn't know any of this back then, but "Endgame" turned out to be the last great M*A*S*H style send-off any Star Trek cast. They're always the best kind and should always be what a writer should aim for. You leave the door open enough for us to imagine what happens next. Rather force our imaginations to work harder, and come up with a way of undoing the damage of a crew who can never be together again. If you like VOY the most and want to imagine what came right after the TV show faded to black, they soooooo made it freakin' easy for you...
"Endgame" is underrated and that's basically down to it being "Timeless" with Janeway unhappy with her happy ending, instead of Kim miserable with his survivor guilt. But the good thing is you do sort of see what these characters will be getting up to once they get home. So it looks like a masterfully written swansong to the modern era compared to say, Star Trek Nemesis.
I didn't know any of this back then, but "Endgame" turned out to be the last great M*A*S*H style send-off any Star Trek cast. They're always the best kind and should always be what a writer should aim for. You leave the door open enough for us to imagine what happens next. Rather force our imaginations to work harder, and come up with a way of undoing the damage of a crew who can never be together again. If you like VOY the most and want to imagine what came right after the TV show faded to black, they soooooo made it freakin' easy for you...
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Well said, ChristopherPike. I definitely agree.
I concur as well.
DEks, non canon of course, but Ken Biller explained on the back of a Voyager trading card (with gum?) that conceptually the Kazon were an allegory for the gang problems in LA.
Has anyone asked why the nomadic kazon do not have a Home planet?
Was it broken, or were they harvested as slaves from the home world so many generations earlier that they have no real connection to the place?
What about the Kazon who were not enslaved and taken off world by the Trabe? Did they make much anything of themselves?
Compare today perhaps the Spanish in Spain to the dominant Spanish population of Mexico?
Then again my lot is basically British, even as we're being culturoformed by American media, but all we have to show for proving our worth to the rest of the world is the Atomic Bomb.
You're welcome world.
Has anyone asked why the nomadic kazon do not have a Home planet?
Was it broken, or were they harvested as slaves from the home world so many generations earlier that they have no real connection to the place?
What about the Kazon who were not enslaved and taken off world by the Trabe? Did they make much anything of themselves?
Compare today perhaps the Spanish in Spain to the dominant Spanish population of Mexico?
Then again my lot is basically British, even as we're being culturoformed by American media, but all we have to show for proving our worth to the rest of the world is the Atomic Bomb.
You're welcome world.
Good questions. Most never even occurred to me as I've never given Kazon much thought beyond wondering how such a stupid thug-like people even figured out how to work spaceships. Their bad hair alone should have been cause for annihilation. It's offensive.
I have no idea about the planet. The most I knew was that another species wanted to annihilate them to which I was not surprised. Oppressed or not, they're akin to angry thugs and as someone here put is so well, not a single brain cell among them.
They probably had no home because they couldn't get along with each other. Best chance they had for survival was as space faring factions. An LA gang? Indeed. With hideous hair.
In an early working of the Kazon there was going to be one 'gang' in particular that forged a genuine alliance with the ship while another two sought to destroy it. Not sure if this would have worked any better but I'd imagine more care could have been taken in making at least a few of the Kazon borderline competent if those lucky few were siding with the main cast for any length of time.
But at least it would have been presented as a good situation for Voyager and the Kazon sect that allied itself with the ship.
They wouldn't get weapons or tech, but the sect in question would have been exposed to the technology either way, and in due time, they could develop their own versions of it.
Plus it could have presented for some interesting story telling.
Similar thing could have happened had Voyager kept the Equinox along for the ride as well... but NO, Janeway HAD to go out of line and say 'all right... if you stop your attacks, I'll deliver the Equinox for you'.
Why not simply say 'I will deliver Ransom for you'?
I mean, sure, the guy was handsome in his own way, but come on... having an extra FEDERATION ship by your side...
They wouldn't get weapons or tech, but the sect in question would have been exposed to the technology either way, and in due time, they could develop their own versions of it.
Plus it could have presented for some interesting story telling.
Similar thing could have happened had Voyager kept the Equinox along for the ride as well... but NO, Janeway HAD to go out of line and say 'all right... if you stop your attacks, I'll deliver the Equinox for you'.
Why not simply say 'I will deliver Ransom for you'?
I mean, sure, the guy was handsome in his own way, but come on... having an extra FEDERATION ship by your side...
Alliances.
Janeway was ready to sign up with Kullah.
It wasn't the Kazons fault that that fell through.
If Janeway had garrisoned Ocampa, they could have stripped the ocampan city(ies?) (It was a dead world. It was stupid to stay.) to make federation/Caretaker Hybrid ships, while interbreeding with the ocampa, that her workforce would have increased by ninefold in the time it would have taken them to build the rest of the fleet (Voyagers transporter could have been widgetted into an industrial replicator, it's not that difficult.) before the Ocampa left their conquered home world for Earth, that by the time they got there, as a species their descendants would all be at least half human anyways and have all the right in the world to call Earth "home".
This is so what the klingons would have done.
You know, except the janeway would have organized a barn raising, square dancing mixer, letting romance and booze take it's course compared to a Klingon rapecamp.
Janeway was ready to sign up with Kullah.
It wasn't the Kazons fault that that fell through.
If Janeway had garrisoned Ocampa, they could have stripped the ocampan city(ies?) (It was a dead world. It was stupid to stay.) to make federation/Caretaker Hybrid ships, while interbreeding with the ocampa, that her workforce would have increased by ninefold in the time it would have taken them to build the rest of the fleet (Voyagers transporter could have been widgetted into an industrial replicator, it's not that difficult.) before the Ocampa left their conquered home world for Earth, that by the time they got there, as a species their descendants would all be at least half human anyways and have all the right in the world to call Earth "home".
This is so what the klingons would have done.
You know, except the janeway would have organized a barn raising, square dancing mixer, letting romance and booze take it's course compared to a Klingon rapecamp.
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