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If voyager was a Galaxy class star ship???

I do like it in SGU when the soldier boys have to threaten to shoot crew and actually shoot crew to maintain order.

But then, even these Hardasses are milksops compared to the Hijinks from the good old days aboard the Battlestar Pegasus.

Quark said that humans are a few meals and a wash away from becoming just as savage as Klingons.

Good god was he wrong if the crew of the USS Voyager is much to go by.
 
Quark was full of BS most of the time on DS9 when it came to comments about humans. That whole speech he gave to Sisko in "Jem'Hadar"? Total BS, since it was shown how the Ferengi WERE into war, slavery and treating their own people like sh*t right to Modern Trek.
 
What on Earth are you talking about? His comments on human beings and the Federation as a whole were as spot on as any dialogue ever offered on any series about those subjects.



-Withers-​
 
What on Earth are you talking about? His comments on human beings and the Federation as a whole were as spot on as any dialogue ever offered on any series about those subjects.




-Withers-​
If you think about it, Ferengi males view their woman as property. I don't know about war and all but that can be viewed as a form of slavery. So I understand the POV of which he's coming from.
 
I'm not saying Quark isn't somewhat of a hypocrite but that, in no way, negates the accuracy of his view on humanity. The two conversations that illustrate this best are the one he has with Garak during Way of the Warrior and the one he has with Nog in AR-...something/something. Quark was full of flaws but that makes his statements no less true.



-Withers-​
 
If Voyager had been Galaxy class, it'd been lame. Intrepid is my favorite ship type, after all ;)

So what if they had infinite shuttles and torps, plenty of energy and quick repair rates. Had they been constantly out of each of these "commodities", people would have complained how repetitive it would've been for them to be trying to replace them in just about every episode (or miraculously never needing/losing them to begin with) for seven years. You might say otherwise, but you know it's true. People will always complain ;) Not that I'm saying such issues couldn't have been addressed more. Just that they hardly break the show in my books.

Well, back to the analysis if it had been easier for a Galaxy class ship... not counting the actual events of the episodes, I think it's a wash. As far as actual firepower goes, I don't think there was much of a difference, actually. Galaxy normally had ~10 phaser arrays originally, while Voyager apparently had ~14 (not all equally powerful, however). The only real advantage would've been the Galaxy's larger torpedo complement. One has to keep in mind that the Galaxy was not a warship either, it was an exploration ship. I'm not sure how the shields between the two compare - Voyager's were probably more advanced technically, but might've had lesser capacity due to smaller ship size and thus power output (speculation obviously).

As a larger ship, they probably would have had more resources - even while their consumption rate would've been higher, as well. Higher population isn't always necessarily better from a social point of view - for example, it's a less tight-knit group and thus more likely to get divided over various issues - but technically it might've been preferable in the sense that the larger crew complement is a better protection against being boarded. Although then again Galaxy ships have a lot of non-combat personnel (basically civilians), which in turn is a hinderance in such situations. Bigger size might put some off from attacking as well, but then again it also makes for a juicier prize. No major advantage either way in my books. If Galaxy WAS a warship, then it'd be a different matter.

Then there's the overall tech level. Voyager was more advanced as far as sensor etc go. Of course this wouldn't necessarily mean much going by the series, since with all the upgrades they did the original sensors had little to do with what they had later on. But initially Voyager would have the advantage. Although here again the higher tech level, while helpful, also makes them a juicy target for raiders that want some new tech. No major advantage here either, then.

To address the shuttle issue, well, Galaxy would've had more of them of course. With their larger supply cache, replacements would've been easier to accomplish as well. So it's one area where they might've had an actual advantage.

But as said, in the end I think it's a wash. Both have their minor advantages in different areas, but neither would have any sort of innate decisive advantage.

PS. I'll say one thing about Star Trek ship designs in general. They rather suck in way, in a technical sense. Looking at how easily systems like weapons etc are disabled, it seems the amount of redudancy systems is very limited. And that's just bad, in all honesty. For example, something the size of a Galaxy class could easily have a secondary warp core. All phasers, or even all phasers of the same side, shouldn't be so tied together that they can be taken out with a single shot. And so on, and so on. I've never seen it mentioned anywhere in a broader scope (though it probably has been), even though it's a common flaw in all of the series. Just as valid a complaint as many Voyager-specific ones :)
 
I'm not saying Quark isn't somewhat of a hypocrite but that, in no way, negates the accuracy of his view on humanity. The two conversations that illustrate this best are the one he has with Garak during Way of the Warrior and the one he has with Nog in AR-...something/something. Quark was full of flaws but that makes his statements no less true.



-Withers-​

His statements are BS, given his own massive hypocrisy. He claims humans are utter barbarians, when it's shown just how much worse all the rest of the Galaxy is (INCLUDING the Ferengi). The klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, hell even the Vulcans a while back are MUCH worse. He had no right to say any of that.
 
I wish this were big enough for its own thread but I don't think it is... so I'm just going to give this one more go and if you want to respond to it, PM me, and I'll go ahead and make a thread (and try to frame it some more...legitimate way);

His statements are BS, given his own massive hypocrisy.

Statements from a hypocrite are not rendered false based on the hypocritical status of the person making the statement. Whether or not he had a right to say what he did is irrelevant because what he said is ultimately true. Look at the best example of his statement on human beings;

"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes..."


What about that is unfounded, unfair, or ultimately untrue?







-Withers-​
 
That's just the same sort of stuff Spock was hypocritically saying about humans in TOS: That they were a bunch of barbarians.

Spock always never mentioned the fact that the Vulcans themselves were FAR worse, and the Klingons and Romulans (plus several other one-off races they encountered) were actively worse to the modern day.

EDIT: Ah rats, I missed that "PM me" part...
 
If Voyager had been Galaxy class, it'd been lame. Intrepid is my favorite ship type, after all ;)
You know, given that we are discussing the performance of fictional ships operating in another part of the galaxy several hundred years into the future, this may be the best reason to pick one or the other. I love discussing the technical mumbo-jumbo, don't get me wrong, but it IS just a TV show. :lol:
So what if they had infinite shuttles and torps, plenty of energy and quick repair rates. Had they been constantly out of each of these "commodities", people would have complained how repetitive it would've been for them to be trying to replace them in just about every episode (or miraculously never needing/losing them to begin with) for seven years.
At the risk of dragging this thread in that dreaded direction... If they had been CONSTANTLY out of these things? If they spent time in ALMOST EVERY EPISODE showing repairs, resupply, etc? Hell yes, that'd be repetitive and dumb. But the problem was that they ran to the OTHER extreme, and almost didn't show any repairs at ALL, and just had an endless supply of torps and shuttles without even a throwaway line's worth of explanation as to how they did so. I certainly would never advocate showing even close to every repair job, every resupply stop, etc. But just a few bits here and there explaining how they get all these new resources would have been nice. And when you have an ep in which Voyager was literally limping off the screen from damage before the closing credits rolled, I would have liked to have seen the next ep start with SOME acknowledgement of how the ship is back to being pristine.
Well, back to the analysis if it had been easier for a Galaxy class ship... not counting the actual events of the episodes, I think it's a wash. As far as actual firepower goes, I don't think there was much of a difference, actually. Galaxy normally had ~10 phaser arrays originally, while Voyager apparently had ~14 (not all equally powerful, however). The only real advantage would've been the Galaxy's larger torpedo complement. One has to keep in mind that the Galaxy was not a warship either, it was an exploration ship. I'm not sure how the shields between the two compare - Voyager's were probably more advanced technically, but might've had lesser capacity due to smaller ship size and thus power output (speculation obviously).
MA says 13, not 14, for Intrepid. Galaxy is 11, +1 hidden under the saucer. Though... why wouldn't they all be equally powerful? The Galaxy-class was said to be equipped with 12 "type X phaser arrays." Why would the Intrepid have some arrays that are of lesser strength, especially since it's a newer design?

Regardless, as I said upthread, I don't think number of arrays is a big deal past a certain point. And that "certain point" is making sure all angles are covered, so that the ship has no phaser blind spots. Once that's taken care of, you don't really need too many more arrays, since a single array can fire multiple beams simultaneously.
Although then again Galaxy ships have a lot of non-combat personnel (basically civilians), which in turn is a hinderance in such situations.
Then there's the overall tech level. Voyager was more advanced as far as sensor etc go. Of course this wouldn't necessarily mean much going by the series, since with all the upgrades they did the original sensors had little to do with what they had later on. But initially Voyager would have the advantage. Although here again the higher tech level, while helpful, also makes them a juicy target for raiders that want some new tech. No major advantage here either, then.
With both of these points, I think it would depend on when the hypothetical Galaxy-class is swept into the DQ. We know there were some upgrades to the Galaxy during DS9, so if one assumed a later iteration of the class (say, the ship got pulled to the DQ instead of Voyager, but at the same time that Voyager would have) it could be one of those improved models. However, if you are talking about the E-D itself, during TNG, or another Galaxy built to that spec, it's going to have things a little rougher. Also, as to civilians and families: I always thought having all those civs (and children) on board was really stupid. One of the biggest series-wide clunkers of TNG. I agree with Ron Moore's assessment, that it could have been (in-universe) a sort of "failed experiment". Starfleet had this idea, and tested it out, but given the realities of how often these ships are thrust into danger (either by circumstance or by Starfleet order), it just didn't work out. My take on things is that after Generations, there are very few civilians on board even Galaxy class ships - maybe a few select officer families (those that have had their request granted, which would be on a much more limited basis), some civilian scientists or technical specialists, and whatever ambassadors happened to be on board. Also the bartender. :lol: But that's it. And NO children.

So if THAT were the case, our hypothetical Galaxy is going to have a much easier go of things; if it's crammed full of civs and kiddies like on TNG, heaven help them.
But as said, in the end I think it's a wash. Both have their minor advantages in different areas, but neither would have any sort of innate decisive advantage.
My opinion isn't too far off. If it's the older, TNG-era Galaxy, I'll give a very slight edge to the Intrepid. If it's the later, improved Galaxy, I'll give it the very same slight edge over the Intrepid.
PS. I'll say one thing about Star Trek ship designs in general. They rather suck in way, in a technical sense. Looking at how easily systems like weapons etc are disabled, it seems the amount of redudancy systems is very limited. And that's just bad, in all honesty.
Meh, that's the kinda thing I chalk up to "it's a TV show." Sometimes, writers needed to add tension, and thus sometimes would throw in extra things to make the battle seem more interesting, or to make a situation seem more dire. These extra things were not always well thought out. If Trek were "real", these ships wouldn't have so many design flaws. Now, I'm not saying this is an excuse; I think it's silly how poorly thought out some of this stuff seems to be (the warp core on TNG was one of the worst offenders. The thing would be on the verge of a catastrophic breach if you so much as sneezed near it. And the last-ditch, emergency, "we've exhausted all other options so we're going to use this one" core ejection system was always "offline." :rolleyes:). All I mean is that in-universe, I don't think some of these events would go quite the way we, the viewers, saw on the show, if it were real.
Three words: Bio. Neural. Circuitry.
Ah yes, the BNC. That is a HUGE point in favor of the Galaxy, if you ask me. This was such a terrible idea. Not only did they not provide any tangible benefit or advantage over "conventional" 24th century computer hardware, but they actually introduced vulnerabilities! The things could get sick or infected, as we saw, and worst of all, they can get infected completely by accident by Neelix cooking some particularly... uh... we'll go with "flavorful", cheese, which produces this fume that floats through the air vents and slags the gel-packs. CHEESE. The bio-neural circuitry was compomised by CHEESE.

Bio-neural circuitry seems to be (another) failed experiment.
 
But just a few bits here and there explaining how they get all these new resources would have been nice.
Well, it's true that mostly when they look for replacement resources it seems to be food (well, this is mostly in the early series), deuterium and in some occasions dilithium. They do some mining etc, but it's never established on-screen that they'd be gathering enough ores to be able to replace shuttles and Voyager's armor. But mostly I just figure that's what they do, even if it isn't shown.

MA says 13, not 14, for Intrepid. Galaxy is 11, +1 hidden under the saucer. Though... why wouldn't they all be equally powerful? The Galaxy-class was said to be equipped with 12 "type X phaser arrays." Why would the Intrepid have some arrays that are of lesser strength, especially since it's a newer design?

Well, I just assumed not all of them are as powerful (not necessarily compared to the Galaxy, but to the Intrepid's own main arrays) due to "The aft firing arc was covered by two smaller arrays, angled on the rear of the saucer section". Now, of course smaller doesn't necessarily mean weaker, but that's how I interpreted it. But indeed, the number of arrays in itself doesn't seem to mean much, as long as you have most of the angles around the ship covered in some ways. After all you rarely see more than one beam going off at once in Trek anyway.

Also, as to civilians and families: I always thought having all those civs (and children) on board was really stupid. One of the biggest series-wide clunkers of TNG.
Yeah. It might seem to be a good idea on paper if you only think of peaceful exploration, since it'd be more relaxed having your loved ones with you, etc. But when you know in practise that you keep running into trouble - not to mention when specifically being assigned to what is basically military duty temporarily - the extra civilians are nothing more than a liability.

Meh, that's the kinda thing I chalk up to "it's a TV show."
I do for the most part as well. But in some cases it just doesn't make any sense. The warp core ejection system really is the best example. Only an idiot would design an emergency system that is so totally unreliable. A close second would be when Voyager's self-destruct didn't work just because secondary CPU was damaged. That was retarded as well.

Bio-neural circuitry seems to be (another) failed experiment.
To me it was more a failure in the writing that in the tech itself. It doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be isolated from any airborne viruses and such. The pack itself around the gel should protect it from any such contaminations. Of course, for long-term missions replacements should be easier to make, as apparently Voyager wasn't capable of producing any replacements at all. And granted, the tech didn't really live up to its hype, since we never really saw any true benefit to having them during the series. But I suppose this is also due to them being included in the writing when there was a problem with them.
 
I think that there is a misconception that in terms of power output, bigger = better ... when in fact, it was often proved in Trek that it is not the case.

Voyager has more phaser strips than the Galaxy class, but I find the premise that they are less powerful than the Galaxy class entirely faulty because Voyager was made a decade after the Galaxy class, and it stands to reason that SF built it to be on par with most of their so called big boys.

The only difference I would see between a Galaxy class and an Intrepid is the amount of torpedoes they can carry (and I seriously doubt that 38 is the limit for the Intrepid given its size because it was launched for a different mission in mind of much shorter duration), fuel and storage of various resources.

If stocked to the limit, the Galaxy would likely have more provisions, but in terms of power draw, defenses and whatnot, it would be the same as the Intrepid.

It might have fared better because they might have had more torpedoes, but that is pretty much it.
 
I would like to comment that in Star Trek Nemisis, in the battle with Shinzon, that Picard's Enterprise "ran out" of torpedoes. possibly as a sign of good faith on a diplomatic mission they didn't come stocked to the gills... Buty C"MON! It's Romulus! Picards not an idiot, he knew there was a decent chance that he would have to fight his way home.
 
I think that there is a misconception that in terms of power output, bigger = better ... when in fact, it was often proved in Trek that it is not the case.

Voyager has more phaser strips than the Galaxy class, but I find the premise that they are less powerful than the Galaxy class entirely faulty because Voyager was made a decade after the Galaxy class, and it stands to reason that SF built it to be on par with most of their so called big boys.

The only difference I would see between a Galaxy class and an Intrepid is the amount of torpedoes they can carry (and I seriously doubt that 38 is the limit for the Intrepid given its size because it was launched for a different mission in mind of much shorter duration), fuel and storage of various resources.

If stocked to the limit, the Galaxy would likely have more provisions, but in terms of power draw, defenses and whatnot, it would be the same as the Intrepid.

It might have fared better because they might have had more torpedoes, but that is pretty much it.

I know that they're not canon but one of the reference books (I think it was Starship Spotter) claimed the Intrepid had Type IX phasers and the Galaxy had Type Xs.
 
Actually, while being non-canon ... the makers of Voyager mentioned that the phasers carried by the Intrepid class ships are Type X.
Same as the Galaxy class.
IX was never mentioned.
Some fans speculated at some point they were type VIII, but no.

I would like to comment that in Star Trek Nemisis, in the battle with Shinzon, that Picard's Enterprise "ran out" of torpedoes. possibly as a sign of good faith on a diplomatic mission they didn't come stocked to the gills... Buty C"MON! It's Romulus! Picards not an idiot, he knew there was a decent chance that he would have to fight his way home.

Running out of torpedoes in the middle of a fight was a bit strange.
Then again, we could chalk it up to the Enterprise being low on torpedoes before getting a call from Janeway as a result from being on exploratory assignments where they spent a few torpedoes, and that stopping by to a star-base for re-supply was not an option (one wouldn't want to keep the Romulans waiting if they extended a diplomatic hand to begin with).
 
The most impossible thing that never would have happened.

If they'd have got fuel and food supplied to them as a courtesy upon reaching a parking orbit of Romulus because of their diplomatic status, what's the chance Picard would accept free "torpedoes" from a Romulan Quartermaster?

:)
 
I don't think it would make much difference, most of the time they treated Voyager as if it was...
 
Thing is, unless we're talking about a hypothetical (no not Riker's Enterprise from 2395ish.) Galaxy Class refit, even a bog Standard intrepid Class Starp is a more powerful combatant in 2370 than Picards Enterprise in 2363 and able to last longer in deepspace due to greater advances in recycling and resource control.

Then of course, a Galaxy Class Starship has 900 more crewmen than an intrepid, and lets face it, at one ponit they were picking fruit and digging up roots to feed Janeways Starving crew, and how much more space would they've had to allocate to the airponics bay...

God help us about laundry and "waste" recycling.

A bigger ship would have collapsed under it's own wieght.

I completely disagree.

I think a Galaxy class ship would have fared much better than the tiny little Intrepid class, if stuck 70,000 ly from Federation space.

Sure, there are more mouths to feed, but that also means there are more people to work. That means there are more people to scan and locate resources (dilithium, deuterium, whatever-ium), more people to trade or mine for them - there is also more space in the Galaxy's numerous cargo bays to store resources, and potentially trade with other space-faring races - and more shuttles to be used on these missions.

As well as a dedicated arboretum and presumably, dedicated airponics bay, those same numerous cargo bays could be converted into airponics bay (rather than Voyager's piddly little airponics bay, staffed by a single Ocampan) - and you have more crew to take care of them, and produce food for the crew.

Even if some of the crew were killed as they travelled to the DQ, there would still have to be at least some science and medical officers, of which Voyager had... none? Except the Doctor and maybe Samantha Wildman? That means multiple doctors and nurses, as opposed to a hologram, pilot and Ocampan (not that I didn't love the Doc).

And I'm sorry, but focusing on the two episodes where a Galaxy class was blown up (one of which was an alternate universe, the other of which was to demonstrate how powerful the Dominion was), as opposed to the dozens, if not hundreds, of times which a Galaxy class starship easily defeated its enemies, is just absurd imo.

Besides, everyone knows the 'offensive' capabilities of a ship are just made up for the episode. Whether Voyager could take down multiple Borg cubes, or the Ent-D was blown up by a single BOP came down to the story. I don't think a ship's ability in combat can truly be debated, I mean, does anyone truly think that Voyager could have realistically taken down the Borg so many times? Or that the Enterprise-D wouldn't have been able to do the same? Especially when you realise that, realistically, Voyager would have run out of torpedos about halfway through Season 1. :lol:

And I'm especially confused when people want to base their arguments on 'facts' like the Caretaker taking 3 days to process Janeway's crew of 150. My goodness people, if we can imagine that Voyager was a Galaxy-class, surely we can also imagine that things would have been written a little bit differently? This is still a TV show, what the writers write is what happens, whether its realistic or not (in Voyager's case, it was often the latter).

Let's face it, if a Defiant-class is like a submarine. The Galaxy is like a city.

I always found it a bit silly that there was only one birth on Voyager, when they thought they were going to be stuck out there for at least 70 years! It would have been both more interesting, and more believable, if they were aboard a Galaxy-class ship, and if they already had families on board - and then those families continued to grow.
 
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