Saquist
Commodore
He's right Voyager is better adapted against the Borg than the Galaxy and the series proved that. Smarter and faster than a Galaxy I think the Admiral said.
If voyager was a Galaxy class star ship???
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
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He's right Voyager is better adapted against the Borg than the Galaxy and the series proved that. Smarter and faster than a Galaxy I think the Admiral said.
Aren't Dominion battleships 2 to 3x the size of a Galaxy Class & twice the fire power?
Isn't that what they said in "Valiant"?
A Galaxy class can barely stand up to one Borg cube, how can it possibly stand up to an entire fleet of Dominion ships?
Federation ships couldn't stand up to Breen weaponary.
Breen are members of the Dominion.
We've already seen the Jem Hadar kamikaze a Galaxy class to destroy it.
With an expendable army and a quote like "Victory is life!", why wouldn't they do it repeatedly if it took them out?
Hull strength can't matter a tot compared to shield strength and structural integrity field strength and the power sourcing backing up those two devices.
The Breen were recently members of the Dominion for the 11th hour of the conflict, there wasn't enough time to implement much shared technology and the breen would come under the "foretested" aspect which the Klingons, Romulans and cardassians fell under as in exactly who and what these ships where designed to face off against.
But then...
The Jem'Hadar policed a massive empire which was 12 thousand years old (ref?) and probably hadn't had a natural predator rankling the Founders perfect sense of order for 11,980 years...
The peacetime in Dominon Space had to be a billion times more serene than the peace time of the early 2360's of the Federation, so why were they all so "sick balls" the second they were born except by design?
What but wargames against one another had the jem'hadar been doing for the last 11 thousand years? I find it odd that the Dominion had such a massive war machine just ready like that after such a massively extended peace?
The Breen were recently members of the Dominion for the 11th hour of the conflict, there wasn't enough time to implement much shared technology and the breen would come under the "foretested" aspect which the Klingons, Romulans and cardassians fell under as in exactly who and what these ships where designed to face off against.
But then...
The Jem'Hadar policed a massive empire which was 12 thousand years old (ref?) and probably hadn't had a natural predator rankling the Founders perfect sense of order for 11,980 years...
The peacetime in Dominon Space had to be a billion times more serene than the peace time of the early 2360's of the Federation, so why were they all so "sick balls" the second they were born except by design?
What but wargames against one another had the jem'hadar been doing for the last 11 thousand years? I find it odd that the Dominion had such a massive war machine just ready like that after such a massively extended peace?
Huge post ahead!
The progression of technology in Trek when it comes to starships is clearly nothing like the progression of technology today. The Miranda and Excelsior classes stayed viable as frontline starships for nearly a hundred years. They weren't cutting edge or anything, but they weren't flying junk heaps, either. Can you imagine any hundred-year old design being viable today (whether you are talking about cars or military vehicles or anything else)? The upgrade and refit capabilities of Starfleet are demonstrated in "Paradise Lost": the Excelsior-class Lakota was successfully overhauled to the point where she was able to put up a good fight against a state-of-the-art warship (the Defiant, naturally). Now, not EVERY starship design is going to last that long, and some designs are better than others. But the general trend is well-established: 10-20 years is not nearly enough time for a new class to put a previous one "to shame". The new class could be better overall, but not to that degree. And there could still be certain things that the older class can do better; for example, I agree with what some in this thread have said about the Galaxy being a better "long-haul" ship than the Intrepid (and I think that even a good long while into the post-Voyager timeline, the Galaxy would remain the premiere ship for being able to do damn near anything very well, if not always the best, and operate independently, without support, for longer periods of time than other ships).
What? The heck are you talking about?
Dude. What.
Very little on-screen, canon information is available on the Akira (almost nothing, in fact). Almost all of the official, "semi-canon" information that IS available points to it being a modern, heavily armed, combat-oriented design, with high agility for its size. So going by the semi-canon, "inadequate offense and speed" is rather far from correct. Going strictly by canon, we don't really know what it can do. And where the heck is "power hog" even coming from, in either case?
The Odyssey incident is hardly evidence of some supposed tactical weakness of the Galaxy-class in general.
And what relevance does that even have?
What, exactly, does that battle prove?
What does ANY of that have to do with the performance of the Galaxy, anyway?
What C.E. Evans was probably referring to were the frequent appearances of Galaxy-class vessels during the fleet battles in season 6 & 7, and the fact that we never saw ONE of them go down, and instead, saw them doing quite a bit of ass-kicking.
Whew! Done.
No and no.
The progression of technology in Trek when it comes to starships is clearly nothing like the progression of technology today. The Miranda and Excelsior classes stayed viable as frontline starships for nearly a hundred years. They weren't cutting edge or anything, but they weren't flying junk heaps, either. Can you imagine any hundred-year old design being viable today (whether you are talking about cars or military vehicles or anything else)? The upgrade and refit capabilities of Starfleet are demonstrated in "Paradise Lost": the Excelsior-class Lakota was successfully overhauled to the point where she was able to put up a good fight against a state-of-the-art warship (the Defiant, naturally). Now, not EVERY starship design is going to last that long, and some designs are better than others. But the general trend is well-established: 10-20 years is not nearly enough time for a new class to put a previous one "to shame". The new class could be better overall, but not to that degree. And there could still be certain things that the older class can do better; for example, I agree with what some in this thread have said about the Galaxy being a better "long-haul" ship than the Intrepid (and I think that even a good long while into the post-Voyager timeline, the Galaxy would remain the premiere ship for being able to do damn near anything very well, if not always the best, and operate independently, without support, for longer periods of time than other ships).
Newer technology. There are far more systems on board a ship than just the general "warp drive", "phasers", "holodecks", etc. And the vast majority of these systems, we never get to see in great detail (since it is, after all, a TV show). The Sovereign class seems to have a similar warp core to the Defiant class (going purely by the visuals), and probably has improved fuel storage systems, EPS conduits, etc. over the Galaxy. There's a LOT going on inside these ships.
By "truth", you of course mean "your opinion."
What? By what measure? When did we see it expending "too much fuel"? And of COURSE it needs more people and resources; it's WAY bigger. It also can sustain itself for FAR longer, once properly stocked, and can carry on several different missions (of varying types) at once. That's the whole point of the class.
What? The heck are you talking about?Not sure where you're getting this... if there were any lines of dialog establishing the relative sensor range of the two classes, I don't remember them. However, you could very well be right: it'd make perfect sense for sensor range to be an area in which the Intrepid outdoes the Galaxy.
Was this established somewhere, the "more phaser arrays"? Regardless, as long as a given ship has coverage at every angle, the number of arrays that can be used simultaneously doesn't seem to make much difference, given that one array can fire two distinct beams at once.
Given the time frame of its creation, it stands to reason that the Intrepid's phasers are of the same general type as the Galaxy's, but the Galaxy would probably be able to pump more power into its shots over a longer period of time in a sustained battle. And how is "Basics" evidence of anything other than the fact that the Intrepid is far superior to Kazon ships?
Dude. What.
Very little on-screen, canon information is available on the Akira (almost nothing, in fact). Almost all of the official, "semi-canon" information that IS available points to it being a modern, heavily armed, combat-oriented design, with high agility for its size. So going by the semi-canon, "inadequate offense and speed" is rather far from correct. Going strictly by canon, we don't really know what it can do. And where the heck is "power hog" even coming from, in either case?
You're not seriously going to try and tell me that you think an Excelsior would fare better in the DQ than a Galaxy, Sovereign, or Akira, are you?
Uh... are you referring to some specific incident, here?
It really, really wouldn't have. As C.E. Evans points out, the E-D's maneuverability was quite limited due to the E-C situation. I don't see how Voyager would have done any better.
So... the Intrepid, if faced with a potentially un-winnable battle, could outrun its opponents, which is something the Galaxy can't do effectively. Have I got that right?
*cough*Captain Picard said:
Except the Odyssey had no shields! Forget about that? Dominion weapons are quite powerful; this has been well established, as has the fact that in Trek, ships generally don't hold up to enemy fire well at all without shields. During "The Jem'Hadar", those same weapons ignored Starfleet shields entirely; they may as well not have even been up (which is why Keogh diverted shield power to weapons almost immediately). When you consider that, the Odyssey did well to even hold out as long as she did. They had taken heavy damage, but looked like they still might make it out, until a bugship rammed them, crashing right into the engineering section. For all we know, a large chunk of the Jem'Hadar ship went careening through the internals of the Odyssey and slammed into the warp core (nevermind that the explosion itself might have been enough to breach the core or the M/A storage). And in terms of pure physical, structural damage from the ramming itself, the Odyssey held up FAR better than any of those Klingon ships (and not just BoPs; there was at least one Vor'Cha) did when rammed in "Tears of the Prophets."
The Odyssey incident is hardly evidence of some supposed tactical weakness of the Galaxy-class in general.
Lumbering?? Hardly.
Go watch "Paradise Lost" again. There is nothing snappy about the way the Lakota maneuvers against the Defiant.
Which, to my mind, would be the Galaxy, hands down, at least in terms of which design can carry more. That's another difference between smaller and bigger ships.
That's a pretty gross exaggeration.
Of course it wasn't. All of the Treks have a fair number of inconsistencies and suddenly changed premises. Voyager just had more of them compared to the other shows (except maybe ENT, but I haven't seen enough of it to really say for sure).Proving that Voyager isn't the only Trek containing inconsistancies & idea changes.
And what relevance does that even have?
You mean in that big battle in which Starfleet was outnumbered some 1200 ships to some 600 ships? That big battle in which we saw Starfleet ships blowing up, Cardassian ships blowing up, Jem'Hadar bugs blowing up, Klingon ships blowing up? That big battle in which two Miranda (MIRANDA!) class ships actually stayed with the Defiant as it penetrated deep into the enemy formation, before finally going down? That big battle in whcih two Galaxy class ships beat the snot out of a Galor right at the beginning? That big battle in which several Starfleet and Klingon ships were able to take out one of those really big Dominion battleships right at the end, allowing the Defiant to break through?
What, exactly, does that battle prove?
The Federation was losing the war at the beginning of season 6 because: A) until sometime near the end of season 5, Starfleet shields still had no effect on Dominion weapons. B) The Dominion had this huge sensor array which was basically telling them every detail of Starfleet fleet movements instantly, giving them a huge advantage (until the Defiant took it out in one of those occupation arc eps; I forget which one). C) The Dominion has a MASSIVE numbers advantage, especially when combined with the Cardassians.
What does ANY of that have to do with the performance of the Galaxy, anyway?
What C.E. Evans was probably referring to were the frequent appearances of Galaxy-class vessels during the fleet battles in season 6 & 7, and the fact that we never saw ONE of them go down, and instead, saw them doing quite a bit of ass-kicking.
Whew! Done.
Apparently very well, according to DS9.
And yet the Dominion lost the war.
Already discussed more than once. No saw no other Galaxy-class ships fall after that.
And yet the Dominion still lost the war.
What?
They lost the war because Odo made a deal with the Founder. It's has nothing to do with Galaxy class ship kicking ass.
What does a Miranda & Excelsior class have to do with ENT-D being still nearly 10 years older then Voyager? "Caretaker" starts off calling Voyager "state of the art". How many year passed in "Timeless" did it take for Harry & Chakotay to go back for Voyager? In the ep. Tessa jokes how Voyager's tech is outdated. That too me is TPTB telling us Voyager is more advanced than any ship we've seen before.No and no.
The progression of technology in Trek when it comes to starships is clearly nothing like the progression of technology today. The Miranda and Excelsior classes stayed viable as frontline starships for nearly a hundred years. They weren't cutting edge or anything, but they weren't flying junk heaps, either. Can you imagine any hundred-year old design being viable today (whether you are talking about cars or military vehicles or anything else)? The upgrade and refit capabilities of Starfleet are demonstrated in "Paradise Lost": the Excelsior-class Lakota was successfully overhauled to the point where she was able to put up a good fight against a state-of-the-art warship (the Defiant, naturally). Now, not EVERY starship design is going to last that long, and some designs are better than others. But the general trend is well-established: 10-20 years is not nearly enough time for a new class to put a previous one "to shame". The new class could be better overall, but not to that degree. And there could still be certain things that the older class can do better; for example, I agree with what some in this thread have said about the Galaxy being a better "long-haul" ship than the Intrepid (and I think that even a good long while into the post-Voyager timeline, the Galaxy would remain the premiere ship for being able to do damn near anything very well, if not always the best, and operate independently, without support, for longer periods of time than other ships).
A win is a win. Wars are often settled by two sides eventually coming to an agreement or signing a treaty.
It sure helped the Federation having those ships around, though.
That would be called a truce in which no side declaires victory.
Yes, the Galaxy class helped so much that it caused Sisko to be an accessory to murder to get the Romulans involved because the combined Federation & Klingon fleets weren't enough.
Yeah, right...
Which has absolutely no bearing on the Galaxy-class (or any other ship design in Starfleet) at all and really is a topic for another debate...
You completely missed my point. Of course the Intrepid is 10 years newer than the Galaxy. That's not in dispute. What IS in dispute is just how much difference those ten years make.
You said:
I wasn't trying to say that Voyager wouldn't be - overall - superior, technologically. It WOULD be, since it's newer. All I was saying is that it wouldn't be "far superior". You were drawing comparisons to today's technological progression:
And the point of the service lives of the Miranda and Excelsior was to illustrate that in Trek, ship classes stay viable FAR longer than a military battleship design (or helicopter, or fighter plane, or a car, or a luxury cruise ship) does today. Therefore: "The Intrepid is ten years newer than the Galaxy, and features some technological improvements" = true. "The Intrepid is ten years newer than the Galaxy, and is far superior" = false. And "The Sovereign is even newer than the Intrepid, and puts a Galaxy 'to shame'" = also false.
The most logical explanation is that Starfleet ships are very modular and adaptable. There are some things that are constrained within a given design, and some things that aren't. Here is what I mean: The Excelsior can fire, say, 4 phaser beams of equal strength at once (yes, I am TOTALLY making the number up; just humor me for a moment). That will NEVER change. 4 beams is the best they can do without lowering the strength of at least one beam. So that's inherent to the class design; a later ship such as the Galaxy or Nebula can fire, say, 6 beams. BUT, what can be changed are the components of the phasers themselves. When the Excelsior first enters service, she is using whatever the top of the line phasers are at that time (Search for Spock) . But by the 2360's, the "type X" phasers of the Galaxy-era ships are the top of the line. So any Excelsior class ships still in frontline service would have to have been refitted with at least type VII or VIII by that point. The Lakota in "Paradise Lost" probably has type X's, as well as a host of other upgrades. She probably represents the maximum potential for the class; this is as far as the Excelsior design can go. So, obviously, a ship class can't just be upgraded indefinitely, or there would never be a need to build new classes. But they can be stretched quite far. In the 2370s, the Galaxy would no longer be the "cutting edge". The Intrepid and Sovereign are. But the Galaxy would hardly even be knocked out of the top tier (let alone "put to shame") so quickly.
"Timeless"! Thanks for bringing this up; it helps me prove my point quite a bit.
Voyager's tech is outdated because it hasn't been refitted or upgraded one iota. How could it be? It's been encased in ice for the last however many years. Do you think there aren't other Intrepid class ships running around, performing more than adequately, in the "Timeless" future? Those ships, unlike Voyager, WOULD have received proper refits to stay current.
Oh, and by the way... remember that part in "Timeless" where the Delta Flyer is being chased by a Starfleet ship as they desperately try to bring their plan to fruition? Remember how the Delta Flyer - which, for a shuttle-type vessel, was showing during VOY to be extremely powerful, even able to stand up to some proper starships and Borg vessels - was completely outgunned by the Starfleet ship? To the point where Tessa says "We're no match for them, Chakotay?"
That ship? GALAXY CLASS.
Actually, no. They avoided the big, final, bloody, drawn-out battle for Cardassia because of said deal. Prior to that, the Jem'Hadar and Breen were prepared to fight to the bitter end, just to make things really sickeningly rough for the Allies, but the war was done. The Founder even said as much. "Your victory will taste as bitter as defeat."
Even if the Dominion's AQ forces were only an "expeditionary force" (which REALLY isn't the proper term... it wasn't their ENTIRE military, granted, but it was a war-capable fleet; it reached well beyond the boundaries of what could be called an expeditionary force by "Call to Arms"), and they had more forces in the GQ, that doesn't mean they could just automatically call on those forces and win the war. It did when it was JUST the Feds and Klingons, maybe (though don't forget, at the time that the Dominion reinforcements were about to come through - which was treated as a potential disaster by Ross and Sisko - Starfleet had just barely, just recently, FINALLY overcome their disadvantages against Dominion ships re: their shields), but not with the Romulans too. And, they even got the Cardassians to jump back to the Allies side. By the time Odo convinces the Founder to stand down, those extra GQ Jem'Hadar forces would not have been an instant win-button.
And besides!
This. Regardless of who won the war or didn't or why or whatever, the fact remains that post-Odyssey, we only EVER - on-screen - saw the Galaxy-class doing one thing: steamrolling its way through any and all Dominion/Cardassian forces it came up against.
Most of that Galaxy class starship would be deadweight in that circumstance. Janeway would order double bunking, most of the science labs shut down, give up life support on the decks with luxurious accomodations, and use the unused portions for spare parts as needed. Oh, if only Voyager would have been more like BSG...
VOY would've been more like BSG if the ship was a near-retirement old clunker, the crew weren't the real crew but just some random bums who all hated each other, and they had a fleet full of people to kill off without harming the main characters to show off how "dark" the show was.
But let's not have the thread turn into one of THOSE threads...
But let's not have the thread turn into one of THOSE threads...
Yes, I'll admit I did completely miss your point because I really don't understand hardly any of this. I got as far as 4 beams and the rest went over my head. "superior" or "far superior" just sounds like arguing semantics. The Flyer didn't stand up to a Borg vessel, it was destroyed by it. It was a shuttle, it couldn't take on a Galaxy class anyway.You completely missed my point. Of course the Intrepid is 10 years newer than the Galaxy. That's not in dispute. What IS in dispute is just how much difference those ten years make.
You said:
I wasn't trying to say that Voyager wouldn't be - overall - superior, technologically. It WOULD be, since it's newer. All I was saying is that it wouldn't be "far superior". You were drawing comparisons to today's technological progression:
And the point of the service lives of the Miranda and Excelsior was to illustrate that in Trek, ship classes stay viable FAR longer than a military battleship design (or helicopter, or fighter plane, or a car, or a luxury cruise ship) does today. Therefore: "The Intrepid is ten years newer than the Galaxy, and features some technological improvements" = true. "The Intrepid is ten years newer than the Galaxy, and is far superior" = false. And "The Sovereign is even newer than the Intrepid, and puts a Galaxy 'to shame'" = also false.
The most logical explanation is that Starfleet ships are very modular and adaptable. There are some things that are constrained within a given design, and some things that aren't. Here is what I mean: The Excelsior can fire, say, 4 phaser beams of equal strength at once (yes, I am TOTALLY making the number up; just humor me for a moment). That will NEVER change. 4 beams is the best they can do without lowering the strength of at least one beam. So that's inherent to the class design; a later ship such as the Galaxy or Nebula can fire, say, 6 beams. BUT, what can be changed are the components of the phasers themselves. When the Excelsior first enters service, she is using whatever the top of the line phasers are at that time (Search for Spock) . But by the 2360's, the "type X" phasers of the Galaxy-era ships are the top of the line. So any Excelsior class ships still in frontline service would have to have been refitted with at least type VII or VIII by that point. The Lakota in "Paradise Lost" probably has type X's, as well as a host of other upgrades. She probably represents the maximum potential for the class; this is as far as the Excelsior design can go. So, obviously, a ship class can't just be upgraded indefinitely, or there would never be a need to build new classes. But they can be stretched quite far. In the 2370s, the Galaxy would no longer be the "cutting edge". The Intrepid and Sovereign are. But the Galaxy would hardly even be knocked out of the top tier (let alone "put to shame") so quickly.
"Timeless"! Thanks for bringing this up; it helps me prove my point quite a bit.
Voyager's tech is outdated because it hasn't been refitted or upgraded one iota. How could it be? It's been encased in ice for the last however many years. Do you think there aren't other Intrepid class ships running around, performing more than adequately, in the "Timeless" future? Those ships, unlike Voyager, WOULD have received proper refits to stay current.
Oh, and by the way... remember that part in "Timeless" where the Delta Flyer is being chased by a Starfleet ship as they desperately try to bring their plan to fruition? Remember how the Delta Flyer - which, for a shuttle-type vessel, was showing during VOY to be extremely powerful, even able to stand up to some proper starships and Borg vessels - was completely outgunned by the Starfleet ship? To the point where Tessa says "We're no match for them, Chakotay?"
That ship? GALAXY CLASS.
Actually, no. They avoided the big, final, bloody, drawn-out battle for Cardassia because of said deal. Prior to that, the Jem'Hadar and Breen were prepared to fight to the bitter end, just to make things really sickeningly rough for the Allies, but the war was done. The Founder even said as much. "Your victory will taste as bitter as defeat."
Even if the Dominion's AQ forces were only an "expeditionary force" (which REALLY isn't the proper term... it wasn't their ENTIRE military, granted, but it was a war-capable fleet; it reached well beyond the boundaries of what could be called an expeditionary force by "Call to Arms"), and they had more forces in the GQ, that doesn't mean they could just automatically call on those forces and win the war. It did when it was JUST the Feds and Klingons, maybe (though don't forget, at the time that the Dominion reinforcements were about to come through - which was treated as a potential disaster by Ross and Sisko - Starfleet had just barely, just recently, FINALLY overcome their disadvantages against Dominion ships re: their shields), but not with the Romulans too. And, they even got the Cardassians to jump back to the Allies side. By the time Odo convinces the Founder to stand down, those extra GQ Jem'Hadar forces would not have been an instant win-button.
And besides!
This. Regardless of who won the war or didn't or why or whatever, the fact remains that post-Odyssey, we only EVER - on-screen - saw the Galaxy-class doing one thing: steamrolling its way through any and all Dominion/Cardassian forces it came up against.
Sorry.
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good thread 
In a discussion like this....I have to put myself in a crewman's shoes and ask which one I would rather be on -- for a 70,000 ly trip across unknown space.
If I had to choose for myself, I would feel much, much better being on a Galaxy.
Much bigger ship, many more individuals along for the journey, more imposing to others, more firepower and internal resources. And it would have just as much potential for technological adaptations and improvements.
Quality of life would also be very important to me -- especially since I'd likely be dead of natural causes before we ever got back to Earth.
The Galaxy is much more comfortable with many more amenities and luxuries ("a hotel in space" as its been called). The quality of life would be better on a Galaxy.
In a discussion like this....I have to put myself in a crewman's shoes and ask which one I would rather be on -- for a 70,000 ly trip across unknown space.
If I had to choose for myself, I would feel much, much better being on a Galaxy.
Much bigger ship, many more individuals along for the journey, more imposing to others, more firepower and internal resources. And it would have just as much potential for technological adaptations and improvements.
Quality of life would also be very important to me -- especially since I'd likely be dead of natural causes before we ever got back to Earth.
The Galaxy is much more comfortable with many more amenities and luxuries ("a hotel in space" as its been called). The quality of life would be better on a Galaxy.
Sorry, but that just really made me laugh.
I remember a time a friend and me went through a list of Voyager episodes (I believe this was between seasons five and six) to determine exactly how many shuttles they lost. If I'm wrong, I think we counted somewhere around 21. Then we got insanely frustrated over the fact that not only did Chakotay say they had a "full compliment of shuttles" at one point, but they also had the Delta Flyer AND Neelix's shuttle sitting in there.
WTF?
Voyager may not have been a Galaxy class starship, but it sure had a shuttlebay as if it was one.
Thing about a galaxy class vessel is that it's big enough to found colonies, and if their crew is breeding at a good trot, they'd need to found colonies to control population/habitation and cater to a retirement limit of some sort that it's crew won't be worked to death or be top heavy with dozens of admirals, and with such a huge civilian population anyway, it's likely that some of them might want to set up on a planet any ways... Consider every ten years they have to get rid of 200 people who are mostly old people and young people with no interest in going to earth?
Then of course, using voyager as a statistical sampling, that they render 2 children per 75 breeding pairs per 7 years, than in accordance with the proportionate relation of a Galaxy classes crew complement, they'd only be having 196 births on a galaxy class starhip hauling for 7 decades.
Then of course, using voyager as a statistical sampling, that they render 2 children per 75 breeding pairs per 7 years, than in accordance with the proportionate relation of a Galaxy classes crew complement, they'd only be having 196 births on a galaxy class starhip hauling for 7 decades.
Weren't some of them... maquis?
The Maquis didn't have much reason to hate the Fleeters, and they weren't just random bums. They had their own chain of command and structure (which wasn't that much different from how Starfleet is run).
This isn't like Stargate Universe where it's a self-run ship full of random people all thrown together.
This isn't like Stargate Universe where it's a self-run ship full of random people all thrown together.
