If the Prime Directive were done properly

[Gingerbread Demon]

As in held up and no one wavered.......... Hmmmmmmmm OK part dark parody and part silly.

I'll go with my favourite PD episode Pen Pals

"We need your help. Our planet is in trouble"
"What is the matter?"
"seismic activity everywhere. We will all die"
"Sorry we can't help bye"

Ship warps out of system
Planet dies

Cue end credits..........

 

[BillJ]

It was done right in TOS.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It was done right in TOS.

TOS was more sensible in this regard

 

[Nyotarules]

TOS had cowboy Kirk, TNG had righteous Picard.....
I suspect Sisko is more like Kirk

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Prime directive was meant as principle of non interference in internal politics, as critique of the Cold War era proxy wars. It was never meant the way it is used in Pen Pals and Homeward.

 

[Mojochi]

I can't see how any Vulcan could've stayed in Starfleet after the "Can't interfere with their extinction" era began. Where's the logic of a code that lets a species go extinct because interfering would alter their natural course of evolution? Clearly, an ideal that values noninterference, for the sake of not affecting their natural evolution, would want them to HAVE some evolution, no?

My only thought on that is... how could intelligent life be so abundant that you hold it in such little regard as to let it vanish, just because involving yourself is risky? WTF are you doing out there at all, if not risking a bit to find other intelligent beings? You might as well just scuttle your ships & go back to Earth imho

 

[Makarov]

"we need help with this illness that will lead to the extinction of our civilization"
"Sure. We are explorers and here to help."

*commercial break*

"I have developed the cure, really quite fascinating"
"Can we have it?"
"No." *leaves*

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

"we need help with this illness that will lead to the extinction of our civilization"
"Sure. We are explorers and here to help."

*commercial break*

"I have developed the cure, really quite fascinating"
"Can we have it?"
"No." *leaves*

Yeah. No not having any of that I'd have helped them. It would be the right thing to do.

 

[Mojochi]

"We need your help. Our planet is in trouble"
"What is the matter?"
"seismic activity everywhere. We will all die"
"Sorry we can't help bye"

Ship warps out of system
Planet dies

Cue end credits..........

​

"we need help with this illness that will lead to the extinction of our civilization"
"Sure. We are explorers and here to help."

*commercial break*

"I have developed the cure, really quite fascinating"
"Can we have it?"
"No." *leaves*

Captain: "OMG! This is the most unique intelligent life form Starfleet has ever encountered. They may hold the key to unraveling the secrets of the origins of the universe. We must set up a covert monitoring station to observe them in their development

Ensign: "Sir, an asteroid is coming straight for it!"

Captain: "Aww, that sucks. Pack your crap, gang. I guess we're heading to that warp field conference after all"

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Captain: "OMG! This is the most unique intelligent life form Starfleet has ever encountered. They may hold the key to unraveling the secrets of the origins of the universe. We must set up a covert monitoring station to observe them in their development

Ensign: "Sir, an asteroid is coming straight for it!"

Captain: "Aww, that sucks. Pack your crap, gang. I guess we're heading to that warp field conference after all"

Is it wrong I can picture this in my head with Picard

 

[Mojochi]

Is it wrong I can picture this in my head with Picard

It's the warp field conference part that sells. It sounds just like their brand of beaurocracy

 

[JoeZhang]

The Federation likely has a special library which is dedicated to the recordings and sensor readings that Starships collected while civilisations died.

Picard: The Ambroisans were an interesting race - when their planet burnt they make this popping sound like popcorn - you can review it in the logs Wesley.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

As in held up and no one wavered.......... Hmmmmmmmm OK part dark parody and part silly.

I'll go with my favourite PD episode Pen Pals

"We need your help. Our planet is in trouble"
"What is the matter?"
"seismic activity everywhere. We will all die"
"Sorry we can't help bye"

Ship warps out of system
Planet dies

Cue end credits..........

Shortest episode ever XD

 

[Paradise City]

It is amusing. The TNG PD seems to be a convergence of several influences to create something of a weird, unflattering muddle.

The big one being just stay out of other peoples problems/politics lest their problems becomes yours and you create a bigger mess.. Which is half observed but also much of Federation relationship building is based on sending Starship Z to help to steer asteroid X away from planet Y or repairing teutonic plates..etc.

The idea that the galaxy is basically a large nature reservation and if you save one species from extinction the idea being there's unintended consequences for their neighbours or whatever. Just as if you save - I dunno - a species of fox from dying out - repopulating that fox might accidentally cause it to multiply in numbers & upset other species. With TNG it just creates a hierarchy of races, valuing races on the unsatisfactory criteria of technological advancement.

I suppose there's also a deterministic thing that each civilisation comes to an end naturally and there you go.

If you are a member of the select few races, there's no thought of the PD though.

Kronos was all gung-ho to be salvaged via artificial means in TUC. Amusingly in that movie it's Kirk that recommends treating the Klingons with the TNG PD treatment with his "let them die" remark.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It is amusing. The TNG PD seems to be a convergence of several influences to create something of a weird, unflattering muddle.

The big one being just stay out of other peoples problems/politics lest their problems becomes yours and you create a bigger mess.. Which is half observed but also much of Federation relationship building is based on sending Starship Z to help to steer asteroid X away from planet Y or repairing teutonic plates..etc.

The idea that the galaxy is basically a large nature reservation and if you save one species from extinction the idea being there's unintended consequences for their neighbours or whatever. Just as if you save - I dunno - a species of fox from dying out - repopulating that fox might accidentally cause it to multiply in numbers & upset other species. With TNG it just creates a hierarchy of races, valuing races on the unsatisfactory criteria of technological advancement.

I suppose there's also a deterministic thing that each civilisation comes to an end naturally and there you go.

If you are a member of the select few races, there's no thought of the PD though.

Kronos was all gung-ho to be salvaged via artificial means in TUC. Amusingly in that movie it's Kirk that recommends treating the Klingons with the TNG PD treatment with his "let them die" remark.

Yeah but Kirk's feelings are somewhat understandable given what happened to his son and all. I'd probably feel much the same.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Protecting themselves is part of it, but I always get the impression the two biggest factors in TNG's misinterpretation of the PD are 'Next Hitler anxiety' and worry about interfering in the grand plan of the universe.

 

[at Quark's]

I think Pen Pals should have gone something like this:

"We need your help. Our planet is in trouble"
"Well, just relocate to another star system!"
"But that would take thousands of years, provided we can survive the journey at all!"
"Wait, you don't have warp?"
"What is this 'warp'?"
<silence>
"Hello? .... Hello? ...... DO YOU STILL HEAR ME? IS ANYONE THERE?"
<silence>
Next scene: Inspirational speech by Picard about how it pains him we cannot help those people. Everyone is moved to tears, then they go that warp conference to forget their sorrows by recalibrating their warp flow sensors or something.
<end credits>

Suppose one of the Borg invasions (or the Dominion) had succeeded, and Picard had asked a more advanced species for help only to hear that the federation is too primitive for their prime directive to interfere, what would he have thought of that?

 

[DonIago]

...it probably wouldn't be the first time the Federation got tagged for being on the receiving end of such a situation.

Personally I'm all for not tampering (however well-intentioned) with less advanced races, but it does mean that once in a while you're going to have to make an objectively terrible decision.

Consider the flip side though: we have a plethora of situations on our planet alone where allegedly well-intentioned people caused irreparable harm to other peoples and cultures.

 

[suarezguy]

I can't see how any Vulcan could've stayed in Starfleet after the "Can't interfere with their extinction" era began. Where's the logic of a code that lets a species go extinct because interfering would alter their natural course of evolution?

Well it's a pretty similar principle, if not the same principle, to not conquering and taking over a planet/species where factions are fighting against each other with advanced weapons, in that context not forcibly interfering could also let the species go extinct. The Vulcans did and do refuse to interfere despite that.

 

[at Quark's]

Consider the flip side though: we have a plethora of situations on our planet alone where allegedly well-intentioned people caused irreparable harm to other peoples and cultures.

Sure. But in the case of by not intervening letting a species die out (such as was the dilemma in Homeward) in my opinion there simply is no such flip side. Any damage that would result to their culture is preferable to letting them simply die out, in my opinion.

Or you would have to take into account the possibility that by saving those Boraalans, they might grow into an aggressor species that in 2000 years or so might be doing some ruthless extermination campaigns to other species who can't defend against them, or some such thing.

(realistically, I don't see how a species could survive by just relocating a number of individuals so low that they all fit on a single holodeck - it is estimated that for long term sufficient genetic variety you'd need at least about 1000 individuals, but that's still another question)