If the Ferengi in TNG maintained the idea of being the main antagonists

[suarezguy]

I really don't think that would, could work, Capitalists/Traders can be antagonistic/antagonists but them actually being evil rivals main villains on a big budget major TV show/(20+year/already four movies made) franchise feels a little too weird and at least verging on hypocrisy that you've pretty much got to at least also have bumbling humorous elements or undertone to at least make any hypocrisy at least self-aware.

I think Bok actually worked pretty well, both times, as a villain but with the show acknowledging he was pretty unusual even his crew being at least a bit less nefarious and very differently motivated and it was believable why there were different motivations.

 

[BillJ]

Honestly, that last bit’s pretty uncomfortable too.

Yeah, probably needs a rewrite or two.

 

[Dukhat]

What if the Ferengi in TNG maintained the idea of being the main antagonists? No bumbling humorous vibes out of them, but instead, they are cutthroat ruthless Capitalists and are hostile to the Federation as a whole. This means that later on in DS9, they are not the humorous comedic relief Aliens, but rather an intimidating hostile race. Assuming the Ferengi are written completely different from the get-go, no "Yankee Traders" sort of thing.

But what does being 'ruthless capitalists and hostile to the Federation' actually mean? Wanting to make lots of money or having lucrative trading agreements while being extremely hostile toward everyone doesn’t seem to be a viable long-term business strategy.

 

[FredH]

But what does being 'ruthless capitalists and hostile to the Federation' actually mean? Wanting to make lots of money or having lucrative trading agreements while being extremely hostile toward everyone doesn’t seem to be a viable long-term business strategy.

You noticed that…

 

[Snowdrop82]

But what does being 'ruthless capitalists and hostile to the Federation' actually mean? Wanting to make lots of money or having lucrative trading agreements while being extremely hostile toward everyone doesn’t seem to be a viable long-term business strategy.

Being extremely manipulative, intelligent, and savvy with manipulating their way into deals and agreements. By hostility, I do not mean militarily, but in their intent to expand their business Empire - while also being Barbarians and using trade, economic deals, etc to get others to look the other way from their Barbarism.

 

[FredH]

You noticed that…

I’m just saying, I can think of certain individuals in the political realm who take precisely this approach — but not necessarily due to intelligence.

 

[Dukhat]

Being extremely manipulative, intelligent, and savvy with manipulating their way into deals and agreements. By hostility, I do not mean militarily, but in their intent to expand their business Empire - while also being Barbarians and using trade, economic deals, etc to get others to look the other way from their Barbarism.

Okay, but I didn’t think that’s what you were implying in your opening post. I took it to mean that you wanted the Ferengi to be absolutely vicious like the Gorn in order to be taken seriously as a threat. Again, wanting to expand your business empire by being more cuttthroat is fine, but I still don’t think the Federation would be treating them like they treat the Cardassians or the Dominion.

 

[mithril]

the big thing would be to shift them into "pulling strings behind the scenes" type villains rather than "in your face" type villains, which is what they tried in last outpost.. make them dangerous because they manipulate other nations in order to further their own greedy interests. two star systems go to war? turns out the ferengi were supplying weapons to both sides. bunch of pirates have started raiding federation outposts? turns out to be mercenaries hired by the ferengi. the ferengi don't have to be intimidating themselves if they can have hired thugs to do their fighting for them. basically lean in more on a mix of 'organized crime' and 'greedy corporate executive' for them.

 

[Mudd]

No way.

If the running conflicts are economic, the show becomes political or stupid or more than likely both. Aside from a couple of GR'S early indulgences in sex fantasies, TNG was determined to offend no one.

 

[XCV330]

I would have liked to have had the Ferengi gradually shown to be a kind of necessary.. well not evil, but definitely not good, sort of able to keep trade going between hostile areas keeping the entire galaxy from boiling into constant war. You don't have to like the Ferengi but everyone quietly acknowledges they're needed. We got some of that in DS9 in a smaller scale, of course.

 

[at Quark's]

I think that could have worked. But unfortunately, TNG wasted them very early on. After that they were irredeemable as a credible dangerous antagonist. DS9 made the maximum out of it, I think.

 

[TheAdmiralty]

Some of these ideas are pretty terrifying (rat people who eat humans and attack in groups) so I'm kind of glad they didn't do it since I would not have enjoyed that.

They botched the introduction of the Ferengi in "The Last Outpost" as menacing antagonists. So, even though I liked that episode quite a bit, the die was cast at that point in terms of how they would be perceived.

I still think they were good antagonists, just cut from a different cloth and not the usual "warlike species" that every sci-fi franchise overuses.

It is a solid episode but the reveal of the Ferengi is very anti climactic, all this build up and then they're just these goofy looking aliens who cower behind objects, not exactly Balance of Terror

 

[at Quark's]

^I agree.

Up until that silly planet surface scene where they show up as cartoon villains, The Last Outpost is quite decent in terms of how it builds up the suspense.

(Well, apart from that finger puzzle Data gets stuck in, perhaps.)

 

[knightgrace]

I would have liked to have had the Ferengi gradually shown to be a kind of necessary.. well not evil, but definitely not good, sort of able to keep trade going between hostile areas keeping the entire galaxy from boiling into constant war. You don't have to like the Ferengi but everyone quietly acknowledges they're needed. We got some of that in DS9 in a smaller scale, of course.

It amuses me, the translation of Ferengi Daemon is: Foreign Devil...

A shot across the bow against the 19th century European powers and the United States.

Ferengi I think that I remember correctly is Hindu.

 

[XCV330]

It amuses me, the translation of Ferengi Daemon is: Foreign Devil...

A shot across the bow against the 19th century European powers and the United States.

Ferengi I think that I remember correctly is Hindu.

it goes back to the crusader era, with western European crusaders and pilgrims being called al-Franj (the french) in Arabic. The Normans had made big inroads throughout the mediterranian. There was literally a trade pidgin language called Linga Franca. Franj just gradually meant foreigner, then became Farang in Persian.

 

[Tenacity]

The Ferengi should regard the Federation's ideals as a a complete joke, and should be shown on accasion to be correct. The Ferengi can't be credible villians unless they occasionally win, and Starfleet gets humiliated. Not always though.

The little dance routine on their first appearance needs to go away, the rest of first appearance is okay, good establishment of the basics.

I liked no slavery, no out and out wars, give them some superiority over Humans.