If the Ferengi in TNG maintained the idea of being the main antagonists

[Snowdrop82]

What if the Ferengi in TNG maintained the idea of being the main antagonists? No bumbling humorous vibes out of them, but instead, they are cutthroat ruthless Capitalists and are hostile to the Federation as a whole. This means that later on in DS9, they are not the humorous comedic relief Aliens, but rather an intimidating hostile race. Assuming the Ferengi are written completely different from the get-go, no "Yankee Traders" sort of thing.

 

[FredH]

What if the Ferengi in TNG maintained the idea of being the main antagonists? No bumbling humorous vibes out of them, but instead, they are cutthroat ruthless Capitalists and are hostile to the Federation as a whole. This means that later on in DS9, they are not the humorous comedic relief Aliens, but rather an intimidating hostile race. Assuming the Ferengi are written completely different from the get-go, no "Yankee Traders" sort of thing.

In my opinion, that only works if they’re completely redesigned. Iirc, the early pre-show articles about TNG indicated they’d be a more marsupial-like species, smaller and more feral-seeming. If you did something like that, completely did away with “Rules of Aquisition” nonsense (maybe make them more like rats?), have them actually be cannibals as initially implied before we met them — I.e. if they were completely different — then I could see it. But the Ferengi as seen, just staying bad guys? No, that’d be awful.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe keep the size and have them attack in crowds like monkeys.

Or make two groups; the small ones we saw in TNG and large muscular warriors with clubs and whips.

 

[Snowdrop82]

In my opinion, that only works if they’re completely redesigned. Iirc, the early pre-show articles about TNG indicated they’d be a more marsupial-like species, smaller and more feral-seeming. If you did something like that, completely did away with “Rules of Aquisition” nonsense (maybe make them more like rats?), have them actually be cannibals as initially implied before we met them — I.e. if they were completely different — then I could see it. But the Ferengi as seen, just staying bad guys? No, that’d be awful.

I am stating that for them to be completely redesigned, to be more like you say there, for example.

 

[Lynx]

In my opinion, that only works if they’re completely redesigned. Iirc, the early pre-show articles about TNG indicated they’d be a more marsupial-like species, smaller and more feral-seeming. If you did something like that, completely did away with “Rules of Aquisition” nonsense (maybe make them more like rats?), have them actually be cannibals as initially implied before we met them — I.e. if they were completely different — then I could see it. But the Ferengi as seen, just staying bad guys? No, that’d be awful.

And it wouldn't have been the Ferengi anymore.

To be honest, I'm happy that they realized that the original concept didn't work and instead made the Ferengi more interesting in other ways, especially what they became in DS9.

 

[Mojochi]

Yeah, it was a miss, on the whole. I actually think @FredH suggestion is a solid notion too, with having an early antagonist be animalistic & ruthless, ala the Gorn, but differently designed. But all in all, the direction they took the Ferengi worked too, in a very different but equally useable way. The intention by then had been to sully up the utopian Starfleet universe a bit more, & while a scary, ruthless cutthroat race would certainly do that, so does a sleazy, problematic & unscrupulous one, in a frankly far more nuanced way, even if they didn't get around to that right off.

 

[Snowdrop82]

And it wouldn't have been the Ferengi anymore.

To be honest, I'm happy that they realized that the original concept didn't work and instead made the Ferengi more interesting in other ways, especially what they became in DS9.

Yeah, it was a miss, on the whole. I actually think @FredH suggestion is a solid notion too, with having an early antagonist be animalistic & ruthless, ala the Gorn, but differently designed. But all in all, the direction they took the Ferengi worked too, in a very different but equally useable way. The intention by then had been to sully up the utopian Starfleet universe a bit more, & while a scary, ruthless cutthroat race would certainly do that, so does a sleazy, problematic & unscrupulous one, in a frankly far more nuanced way, even if they didn't get around to that right off.

I can imagine the Ferengi being made into Barbarians, cannibalism, love of wealth and money, extremely animalistic and ruthless but intelligent enough to rival the Federation in terms of technology. Rather than the Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons, the Ferengi are so brutal and cutt-throat they put the others to shame.

Still have similar designs as the Ferengi, I like the designs, but just have the motivations, personality - none of the funny stuff that was added in DS9.

 

[BillJ]

The Ferengi were a disturbing TNG miss.

 

[Michael]

I gotta say, considering how often I’ve seen it mentioned that Ferengi are uncomfortably close to antisemitic stereotypes (quoting Wikipedia: “Various critics have argued that the depiction of the Ferengi and their culture mirrors anti-Semitic stereotypes of Jews, namely the love of profit and the oversized facial features – in the case of the Ferengi, the ears.”) I don’t think basing their design on rats of all animals would have been such a great idea, as that would have seemed even more overtly antisemitic.

 

[BillJ]

 

[somebuddyX]

I wouldn't change their appearance, although I've thought about the idea of giving them black sclera contact lenses. I'd keep them more ominous and none of that flying monkey jumping around you see in their first appearance. I'd change their pursuit of physical profit like gold or latinum to more a ideology of brokering deals or winning games, and I'd have it that once you sign that deal or shake their hand you're bound to them to fulfill your part of the deal. I'd change their reason for being out in space is them trying to build their own kind of anti-Federation through trade alliances and coercion. Basically I keep thinking of them more like Mr. Morden and the Shadows from Babylon 5. I feel like if you are going to do a critique on capitalism you should do it honestly about how and why the pursuit of money and power is so seductive.

 

[Snowdrop82]

I wouldn't change their appearance, although I've thought about the idea of giving them black sclera contact lenses. I'd keep them more ominous and none of that flying monkey jumping around you see in their first appearance. I'd change their pursuit of physical profit like gold or latinum to more a ideology of brokering deals or winning games, and I'd have it that once you sign that deal or shake their hand you're bound to them to fulfill your part of the deal. I'd change their reason for being out in space is them trying to build their own kind of anti-Federation through trade alliances and coercion. Basically I keep thinking of them more like Mr. Morden and the Shadows from Babylon 5. I feel like if you are going to do a critique on capitalism you should do it honestly about how and why the pursuit of money and power is so seductive.

I don't really take the Ferengi as a "critique" on Capitalism, they feel more like for comedic relief more than anything which I really dislike.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't really take the Ferengi as a "critique" on Capitalism, they feel more like for comedic relief more than anything which I really dislike.

They were supposed to be "serious" villains at first.

 

[BillJ]

They were supposed to "serious" villains at first.

And eat humans!

 

[Snowdrop82]

They were supposed to "serious" villains at first.

I would have preferred them be that way.

 

[somebuddyX]

I quite like the tone given in the "Blood and Fire" script, even if not a single Ferengi was seen. Something really dark and foreboding and scares people so much they create a bioweapon to wipe them out.

YARELL
Captain, an undeclared state of war
exists between us and the Ferengi
Alliance.

(to Picard's raised eyebrow)
Can you imagine what would happen if they
were to spread bloodworms throughout
Federation space?

DATA
The destruction of red-blooded life forms
on a catastrophic scale.

YARELL
Precisely.
(to Picard) :
The purpose of the Copernicus mission was
to explore ways of containing and
controlling the plasmasite infestation in
the event of open hostilities. The
Ferengis are vipers. They cannot be
trusted.

===

DATA

(quietly)
The Copernicus was headed for Ferengi
space ....

YARELL
Captain =-- you have no idea how deeply
infected our whole society is with this
Ferengi menace. I've been studying the
Ferengis for fifteen years. The pattern!
The pattern of sabotage and consplracy 1S
unmistakeable. I'm an expert. I see it

 

[Lynx]

I can imagine the Ferengi being made into Barbarians, cannibalism, love of wealth and money, extremely animalistic and ruthless but intelligent enough to rival the Federation in terms of technology. Rather than the Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons, the Ferengi are so brutal and cutt-throat they put the others to shame.

Still have similar designs as the Ferengi, I like the designs, but just have the motivations, personality - none of the funny stuff that was added in DS9.

I think that they were great in DS9.
They wouldn't have been good as barbarians, they were other, much better villains in all three Star Trek series at that time.

 

[Vger23]

They botched the introduction of the Ferengi in "The Last Outpost" as menacing antagonists. So, even though I liked that episode quite a bit, the die was cast at that point in terms of how they would be perceived.

I still think they were good antagonists, just cut from a different cloth and not the usual "warlike species" that every sci-fi franchise overuses.

 

[FredH]

I gotta say, considering how often I’ve seen it mentioned that Ferengi are uncomfortably close to antisemitic stereotypes (quoting Wikipedia: “Various critics have argued that the depiction of the Ferengi and their culture mirrors anti-Semitic stereotypes of Jews, namely the love of profit and the oversized facial features – in the case of the Ferengi, the ears.”) I don’t think basing their design on rats of all animals would have been such a great idea, as that would have seemed even more overtly antisemitic.

You’re right; I withdraw the thought. Really just liked the image of something small, furry and probably mammalian.

 

[FredH]

I quite like the tone given in the "Blood and Fire" script, even if not a single Ferengi was seen. Something really dark and foreboding and scares people so much they create a bioweapon to wipe them out.

YARELL
Captain, an undeclared state of war
exists between us and the Ferengi
Alliance.

(to Picard's raised eyebrow)
Can you imagine what would happen if they
were to spread bloodworms throughout
Federation space?

DATA
The destruction of red-blooded life forms
on a catastrophic scale.

YARELL
Precisely.
(to Picard) :
The purpose of the Copernicus mission was
to explore ways of containing and
controlling the plasmasite infestation in
the event of open hostilities. The
Ferengis are vipers. They cannot be
trusted.

===

DATA

(quietly)
The Copernicus was headed for Ferengi
space ....

YARELL
Captain =-- you have no idea how deeply
infected our whole society is with this
Ferengi menace. I've been studying the
Ferengis for fifteen years. The pattern!
The pattern of sabotage and consplracy 1S
unmistakeable. I'm an expert. I see it

Honestly, that last bit’s pretty uncomfortable too.