If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Head?

[Falcor5]

I know this is an odd topic but all this time travel stuff sometimes confuses me. I watched Time's Arrow yesterday after having watched the new Star Trek movie this past weekend. Of course in Time's arrow is when the TNG crew goes back in time to San Francisco in the 1800's and Data's head ends up buried under ground in the 1800's. So in this new timeline of Trek XI if "Old" Spock (who was friends with Data) were to go to San Francisco would he find Data's head buried there do you think? Or did the TNG crew never even go back in time to the 1800's in this new Trek XI timeline even though the 1800's is further back in time then Trek XI is?

I was not sure whether to post this in this forum or the Trek XI one but I figured since its about a TNG episode this would be the right one.

 

[OmahaStar]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Yep, cuz he'd be going to a point before the Kelvin went kablooey and the timeline changed.

 

[TheWifeOfBrian]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

...man now I'm going to have to incorporate this in my RPG somehow.

Question is: Why would Ambassador Spock need to know about an obscure time-travel mission to a largely irrelevant point in history?

 

[CaptainStoner]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

I'm going to say no. Data's head appearing in San Fran circa 1800's happens "after" the TNG-era, and Data's creation. So in the Alt-timeline of STXI, that particular timeline pollution "hasn't happened yet".

Do I have this right?

 

[Falcor5]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

...man now I'm going to have to incorporate this in my RPG somehow.

Question is: Why would Ambassador Spock need to know about an obscure time-travel mission to a largely irrelevant point in history?

Maybe Data told him about it at some point.

 

[Plecostomus]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

...man now I'm going to have to incorporate this in my RPG somehow.

Question is: Why would Ambassador Spock need to know about an obscure time-travel mission to a largely irrelevant point in history?

Maybe Data told him about it at some point.

(at the bar)

SPOCK: I was dead once but they brought me back to life with some kind of quantum trickery and a brain transfusion. Top that, 'droid.

DATA: I once traveled back in time, lost my head, had it sit in a cave for hundreds of years. Then I discovered my head, went on a mission, lost my head, and they pulled an iron filing out of the recovered head and stuck it on my body and here I am talking to you. Also, I am cutting you off you have had enough.

SPOCK: Wow fine you win... and I'll TELL you when I've had enough damn it!

 

[barnaclelapse]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

...man now I'm going to have to incorporate this in my RPG somehow.

Question is: Why would Ambassador Spock need to know about an obscure time-travel mission to a largely irrelevant point in history?

Because.

That's why.

 

[Spocktapus]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

I think he would find Data's head.
The way I see it is this:

Data's head was from the 19th century, hundreds of years before Nero's appearance. Since I'm working under the assumption that all futures are equally valid, Data's head will still be there, no matter what happens in the future. His head is part of the past, and so is already written.

Centuries later, Nero changes the timeline, but this can't remove Data's head. Similarly, this head belongs to the old timeline's Data, not the new timeline, provided there even is a Data in this timeline.

 

[Falcor5]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

...man now I'm going to have to incorporate this in my RPG somehow.

Question is: Why would Ambassador Spock need to know about an obscure time-travel mission to a largely irrelevant point in history?

Maybe Data told him about it at some point.

(at the bar)

SPOCK: I was dead once but they brought me back to life with some kind of quantum trickery and a brain transfusion. Top that, 'droid.

DATA: I once traveled back in time, lost my head, had it sit in a cave for hundreds of years. Then I discovered my head, went on a mission, lost my head, and they pulled an iron filing out of the recovered head and stuck it on my body and here I am talking to you. Also, I am cutting you off you have had enough.

SPOCK: Wow fine you win... and I'll TELL you when I've had enough damn it!

HA

 

[Falcor5]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

I think he would find Data's head.
The way I see it is this:

Data's head was from the 19th century, hundreds of years before Nero's appearance. Since I'm working under the assumption that all futures are equally valid, Data's head will still be there, no matter what happens in the future. His head is part of the past, and so is already written.

Centuries later, Nero changes the timeline, but this can't remove Data's head. Similarly, this head belongs to the old timeline's Data, not the new timeline, provided there even is a Data in this timeline.

That makes sense to me! Thanks for explaining your opinion on it!

 

[NumberOne]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

I have a headache just thinking about this

 

[Delta1]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

The timeline didn't change with Nero's temporal incursion. The TOS-TNG timeline is still extant at the end of Countdown. Nero and Spock only traveled to a universe that was very similar to the past of their own universe.

And it's debatable whether or not Nero and Spock were really from the TOS-TNG universe. Incongruities with the pre-Nero history of NuTrek and the history of TOS-TNG Trek have been pointed out on TrekBBS and other forums.

Bottom line, there's no way to tell whether Data's head was in San Francisco, because NuTrek does not take place in any previously established timeline or branch thereof.

 

[Astraea]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Data's head exploded trying to comprehend this problem.

...at least, mine feels like it will, thinking about it. I've written and deleted a couple paragraphs trying to reason this out and have concluded that time travel as it exists in Star Trek functions in an illogical and inconsistent manner; therefore, to mix metaphors, speculation is futile.

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Consider that Sela in the Trek 1.0 timeline is the daughter of Tasha Yar from an alternate timeline who traveled back into the past to a point shared with the Trek 1.0 timeline.

Data's head was blown from the Trek 1.0 timeline back into the past to a point shared with the Trek 2.0 timeline, so if Sela's mother's corpse is anywhere to be found in the Trek 1.0 timeline post 2348 or so, then Data's head would be in San Francisco after 1893.

Unless, of course, Trek 2.0 is really a full-fledged reboot, in which case all bets are off.

 

[Brady]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Data's head should have never been found by the crew. The timeline in which Data's head was lost in the 1800s was not the timeline the crew that originally went on the mission existed in. After they traveled forward, they would have been in the altered timeline where Data's head had been buried and in that timeline, it might have been found. The normal timeline where no one traveled back in time and Data's head was not lost continued on. Time travelers are not able to change history, only create alternate timelines.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

The normal timeline where no one traveled back in time and Data's head was not lost continued on. Time travelers are not able to change history, only create alternate timelines.

Unless - Data's head was always there in the first place.

I primarily agree with your assessment. However, there are certain exceptions in Trek that we pretty much just have to accept as the mucking about of really powerful beings like Q and Trelane. Data's head may be one of those - we won't know until we do.

 

[Bones2]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Old Spock did go to San Francisco. And he didn't find Data's buried head.

Though in fairness, he was more concerned with finding a whale.

 

[Brady]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Consider that Sela in the Trek 1.0 timeline is the daughter of Tasha Yar from an alternate timeline who traveled back into the past to a point shared with the Trek 1.0 timeline.

Data's head was blown from the Trek 1.0 timeline back into the past to a point shared with the Trek 2.0 timeline, so if Sela's mother's corpse is anywhere to be found in the Trek 1.0 timeline post 2348 or so, then Data's head would be in San Francisco after 1893.

Unless, of course, Trek 2.0 is really a full-fledged reboot, in which case all bets are off.

Well since Data's head was found, we know that the normal Star Trek timeline is the timeline in which Data's head was buried. IF Spock and Nero traveled back from that same timeline, they would go to the past of that timeline. Any alterations from that point would create a new timeline that branches off the original at the point of alteration. But everything before that point would be the same as it is in the normal Trek universe, which already contains several inaccuracies from what would be the pure timeline, where time went on and everyone who traveled back in time was simply lost forever to a new timeline. Meaning Data's head would be there.

 

[Brady]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Data's head should have never been found by the crew. The timeline in which Data's head was lost in the 1800s was not the timeline the crew that originally went on the mission existed in. After they traveled forward, they would have been in the altered timeline where Data's head had been buried and in that timeline, it might have been found. The normal timeline where no one traveled back in time and Data's head was not lost continued on. Time travelers are not able to change history, only create alternate timelines.

I take this back. This paradox is easily explained since the show can simply be said to be set in that particular timeline where Data's head was buried.

BOY this stuff is nuts!

 

[Praetor]

Re: If Old Spock went to San Francisco would he find Data's buried Hea

Time travel gives me a headache.