If not the California-Class...

[Deks]

That's a pretty valid theory.

But on the other hand, the Nova class and Intrepid-class are contemporaries, so can we really assume that the upgraded Nova as improvements that we don't see that take to at least Intrepid-class equivalent or better? I've give you tactically... we have on-screen evidence for that... but scientific and diplomatic? That's pure speculation and the observed trend if anything implies the opposite (the Connie might not have been the biggest, but even with DSC's retcons it's still the very desirable and capable "one in a million" assignment that it was before, whereas the similarly sized Intrepid now approaches the "runt" of the explicitly multi-role crowd in it's era).

The upgrades would have to be far more extensive if the Nova was able to engage and subdue two Negh'Var Klingon battleships. And while I know they didn't offer much in the way of resistance (at least from on-screen data), Harry had to be somewhat confident that his upgraded Nova would be able to take on those 2 ships.

37 years is nearly 4 decades... it would be impossible that the Nova was only brought up to Intrepid class level... the firepower to penetrate those shields and disable those battleships in a quick succession had to be far greater from Intrepid's baselines (also considering this is the future in which Starfleet was seemingly confident enough they can keep the Borg at bay too).

Like I said, the Intrepid class was a downsized galaxy class and was built less than a decade after it. The Nova class would start as initially inferior to the Intrepid and Galaxy class but would soon result in a modern starship with modern upgrades that would pretty much bring it on par with most ships.
Think USS Lakota... ala 24th century style. The rate of improvements would accelerate further, so for all we know, SF could probably reduce the size of most of their hw while improving efficiency and power outputs to the point where size as we know it becomes less and less relevant.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Like I said, the Intrepid class was a downsized galaxy class and was built less than a decade after it.

No, it isn't. It is significantly lacking in a number of areas. Not least the ability of surge manpower or transport refugees, diplomats etc. It's a replacement for the New Orleans-class and similar mid-size vessels. The Nova is even more lacking in these areas than the Intrepid-class.

Think USS Lakota... ala 24th century style. The rate of improvements would accelerate further, so for all we know, SF could probably reduce the size of most of their hw while improving efficiency and power outputs to the point where size as we know it becomes less and less relevant.

The Lakota proves that tactical systems can be upgraded, I never urged they couldn't be (although I do think that DS9 particularly overdid that). The Lakota has the scope to overpower the Defiant exactly because it's consider larger.

The idea that a Nova, a ship about a quarter the length and a tiny fraction of the size can magically do all that the Galaxy class did even with a few decades is not credible to me, and nothing shown on-screen persuades me otherwise.

YMMV.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Pretty sure it was made for DS9, check out the Centaur-like additional windows (perhaps indicating a bigger scale than the Miranda) and nacelle colours, meant for the same reflective lighting system that only came along during DS9. Pics here.

You’re probably right on that - @Dukhat posted photos he got from Dan Curry on the Flare forums back in 2013 (that have long since disappeared) where he does point out that the Trieste model that Curry built has a different registry (by one digit) than what has been canonically known as that ship’s registry. Memory Alpha makes mention of the model here, implying that there is a slim possibility that it’s the same, but MA is full of errors, so...

 

[Deks]

No, it isn't. It is significantly lacking in a number of areas. Not least the ability of surge manpower or transport refugees, diplomats etc. It's a replacement for the New Orleans-class and similar mid-size vessels. The Nova is even more lacking in these areas than the Intrepid-class.

I wasn't talking about the upgraded Nova's transport of refugees, diplomats, etc. Different classes of ships would be assigned different mission parameters... but for the most part, in 2404, a lot of scientific and tactical missions previously done by larger ships like Galaxy class could probably be done by smaller ships like upgraded Nova.

So the upgraded Nova wouldn't be restricted to Science based missions only or limited to warp 6 in 2404. It would probably take on numerous tasks that previously only larger classes of ships could handle where crew and interiors weren't particularly big factors.

The Lakota proves that tactical systems can be upgraded, I never urged they couldn't be (although I do think that DS9 particularly overdid that). The Lakota has the scope to overpower the Defiant exactly because it's consider larger.

The idea that a Nova, a ship about a quarter the length and a tiny fraction of the size can magically do all that the Galaxy class did even with a few decades is not credible to me, and nothing shown on-screen persuades me otherwise.

YMMV.

When I said 'downsized Galaxy' etc. I meant mainly in regards to science/research and tactical systems. These upgrades would inevitably also increase the internal volume of the ship somewhat so that the upgraded Nova can now take up tasks its original predecessors could not.

Also, 'few decades' is an understatement. Its 37 freaking years. Do you have any idea how much time that is for technology and science which evolve exponentially?
It's a ridiculously long time to significantly change things to disproportional levels.

Also, if that 31st century pod is any indication which has larger internal volume than it does exterior, it stands to reason that SF already had 'some' ability to enlarge internal volume in 24th century. Holograms/holodecks/holoporjectors can probably achieve a similar effect - next to obviously reduction in hardware which could easily provide further increases too.
So could phasing out things while keeping them 'tethered' to the frequency of local matter or keeping inanimate objects in transporter suspension/stasis.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I wasn't talking about the upgraded Nova's transport of refugees, diplomats, etc. Different classes of ships would be assigned different mission parameters... but for the most part, in 2404, a lot of scientific and tactical missions previously done by larger ships like Galaxy class could probably be done by smaller ships like upgraded Nova.

You were talking about -- or perhaps ignoring -- the transportation and diplomatic aspects, because you insisted that the updated was a "downsized Galaxy", which means that it's capable of everything that the Galaxy is.

As far as scientific missions... I'm still going to say no long term missions (though not missions other than "planetary survey" necessarily) unless there's evidence of increased crew and crew welfare facilities.

So the upgraded Nova wouldn't be restricted to Science based missions only or limited to warp 6 in 2404. It would probably take on numerous tasks that previously only larger classes of ships could handle where crew and interiors weren't particularly big factors.

Okay, so now you're admitting that crew and interiors are a factor, because you've been arguing against that for the last page and a half?

When I said 'downsized Galaxy' etc. I meant mainly in regards to science/research and tactical systems. These upgrades would inevitably also increase the internal volume of the ship somewhat so that the upgraded Nova can now take up tasks its original predecessors could not.

But that's not what I've been arguing that "downsized Galaxy" means. See above.

Also, 'few decades' is an understatement. Its 37 freaking years. Do you have any idea how much time that is for technology and science which evolve exponentially?
It's a ridiculously long time to significantly change things to disproportional levels.

Not really, Starfleet ships have evolved rather than changed in capabilities and limitations since Earth Starfleet era, I've got no issue with that changing, but I would like to see some evidence before assuming that it must have changed. YMMV.

Also, if that 31st century pod is any indication which has larger internal volume than it does exterior, it stands to reason that SF already had 'some' ability to enlarge internal volume in 24th century. Holograms/holodecks/holoporjectors can probably achieve a similar effect - next to obviously reduction in hardware which could easily provide further increases too. So could phasing out things while keeping them 'tethered' to the frequency of local matter or keeping inanimate objects in transporter suspension/stasis.

YMMV, but I see no reason to assume such a massive shift in design over such a short period.