If NBC had gone with the "Cage" version of Trek...

[TigerOfDarkness]

AlxxlA's thread on Yoeman popularity started me wondering if Yeoman Colt would have had a larger part in Trek if NBC had bought the original pilot?

Early publicity shots for TOS featured just Kirk, Spock and Rand - do you think GR intended a larger role for the Yeoman?

Would it have evolved a Pike, Number One and Boyce triangle, like the Kirk, Spock and McCoy triangle that evolved in TOS?

 

[Christopher]

Early publicity shots for TOS featured just Kirk, Spock and Rand - do you think GR intended a larger role for the Yeoman?

The publicity shots don't represent Roddenberry's intentions, they represent the NBC publicity department's opinions about what would draw in the viewers. Sex sells, so they wanted to put an attractive woman in the publicity photos. The publicity materials produced at the time of the second pilot heavily featured Andrea Dromm as Yeoman Smith, even though she was barely in the episode (and GR only wrote her into the episode because he wanted to sleep with her, according to Inside Star Trek).

The evidence of Roddenberry's intentions is in the Star Trek Format document, the early "series bible" he wrote. There, Colt was the last character listed and had the briefest description, which was basically that she was "very female" and wished she could serve the captain in more personal departments.

Would it have evolved a Pike, Number One and Boyce triangle, like the Kirk, Spock and McCoy triangle that evolved in TOS?

Doubtful, since Spock was part of the pilot cast as well. Which characters come to the fore is a function of audience response as well as writer/producer intent, and Spock became such a dominant character in TOS because he was immensely popular with audiences, especially female audiences. Presumably Nimoy's performance and the character's exotic sex appeal would've caused him to become just as much a breakout star in the context of Pike, Number One, and Boyce that he did in the context of Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty. (It's worth noting that Leonard Nimoy was the only Trek actor ever to get nominated for an Emmy for his performance in ST -- and in fact he got three consecutive Emmy nominations for playing Spock.) And so the network would've pushed Roddenberry to increase Spock's role, which probably would've diminished Number One's role.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I don't strictly disagree, but would point out that the Spock in "The Cage" is different from the character developed on the series, having Number One's emotionless demeanor added to him after her removal. Would shouting, smiling Spock have been as popular with the ladies without that inner emotional turmoil between his human and Vulcan halves?

 

[Christopher]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks. And Nimoy's talent would've made Spock a "fascinating" character to watch regardless of his personality.

 

[Kryton]

Having just re-watched the restored version last night, there is so MUCH raw brilliance in the pilot...but it IS raw and undeveloped. In some ways, I really would have liked to see the Captain Pike years with Jeff Hunter.

Number One wasn't really as emotionless as she was emotionally stunted. Remember that great faux pas after Colt bumps against Pike while delivering reports right on time?

"Oh, she does a good job, all right. I just can't get used to having a woman on the bridge." <Majel gives a sad puppydog look and Pike realizes what he said> "No offense, Lieutenant you're ... DIFFERENT, of course." <Majel looks away even sadder at that!> d'oh!

Forget the fact that there was at least one other woman already serving on the bridge when the fax-like printout of the distress call came through a scene or two back!

 

[erastus25]

Pike would have been a much different captain than Kirk. Rather than starting the series with the young guy who loves being captain more than anything, we would have had Pike, the season veteran who is at least considering moving on with his career.

I wonder how the sets would have looked. Would GR have stuck with the Enterprise we see in the Cage or would he still have given it an overhaul and given us the Enterprise first seen in The Corbomite Maneuver?

 

[AlxxlA]

AlxxlA's thread on Yoeman popularity started me wondering if Yeoman Colt would have had a larger part in Trek if NBC had bought the original pilot?

I'm flattered.


Anyway, if they had used Captain Pike, who would have been hit with delta radiation? Robert April?

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^There would have been no need for "The Menagerie" if they had gone with a Pike series. "The Cage" would have been simply edited to 51 minutes and shown as the first (or near there) episode.

Sir Rhosis

 

[Christopher]

Pike would have been a much different captain than Kirk. Rather than starting the series with the young guy who loves being captain more than anything, we would have had Pike, the season veteran who is at least considering moving on with his career.

Actually Kirk wasn't that different from Pike, especially in the first season -- a serious career military man who had a love-hate relationship with command, agonizing over the tough decisions he had to make and longing for an escape to a simpler life. Pike's laments in "The Cage" are little different from Kirk's in "The Naked Time" or "The Immunity Syndrome" or "The Paradise Syndrome."

And Boyce was just McCoy with another face. Roddenberry wanted DeForest Kelley from the start, but the network or the studio shot him down on both pilots and insisted on other actors instead.

So what differences emerged in the characters were more to do with the actors' influence. Pike and Kirk started out as much the same character, but Hunter would've shaped his character differently than Shatner did.

I daresay Number One's presence in the command crew would've made the biggest difference, though. Hmm... the only reason the network turned down the character is because they didn't like Roddenberry casting his mistress in the role. Contrary to GR's claims, they actually loved the idea of a strong female lead. If he'd cast a different actress, one with more of a cachet and less of a personal relationship with him, then Number One would never have been dropped. Imagine if a prominent '60s actress had gotten the part. Intriguingly, Roddenberry's original series proposal describes Number One as having a "Nile Valley" appearance. That suggests someone "ethnic," maybe even black if you interpret that as the Upper (southern) Nile Valley. Now, that would've been progressive casting.

 

[Kryton]

NBC didn't want De Kelley because he'd been a fairly common face in TV westerns up until then and they were afraid that would take the viewer out of the fantastic setting of space.

I only ever saw De in a single western...something in B & W shown on Nick at Nite back in the late '80s. Managed to pick up a few seconds on VHS...he was some sort of western gang member, but he was a simpleton and did something stupid that put the law on the gang, so they shot and killed him.

Funny...after all these years seeing him as McCoy, the exact OPPOSITE of NBC's objection kicked in 'cause he SURE seemed out of place in the old west!

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

Some interesting comments there.

Early publicity shots for TOS featured just Kirk, Spock and Rand - do you think GR intended a larger role for the Yeoman?

The publicity shots don't represent Roddenberry's intentions, they represent the NBC publicity department's opinions about what would draw in the viewers. Sex sells, so they wanted to put an attractive woman in the publicity photos.

I should have thought of that

The evidence of Roddenberry's intentions is in the Star Trek Format document, the early "series bible" he wrote. There, Colt was the last character listed and had the briefest description, which was basically that she was "very female" and wished she could serve the captain in more personal departments.

I'd forgotten that - was Number One listed second?

.... would point out that the Spock in "The Cage" is different from the character developed on the series, having Number One's emotionless demeanor added to him after her removal. Would shouting, smiling Spock have been as popular with the ladies without that inner emotional turmoil between his human and Vulcan halves?

I agree - Spock's character is still evolving during the early episodes of season 1. In Mudd's Women he apears to be enjoying the mens reaction to the women, for example.

Having just re-watched the restored version last night, there is so MUCH raw brilliance in the pilot...but it IS raw and undeveloped. In some ways, I really would have liked to see the Captain Pike years with Jeff Hunter.

Me too. It would be a different Trek but I would love to have seen it.

Number One wasn't really as emotionless as she was emotionally stunted. Remember that great faux pas after Colt bumps against Pike while delivering reports right on time?

"Oh, she does a good job, all right. I just can't get used to having a woman on the bridge." <Majel gives a sad puppydog look and Pike realizes what he said> "No offense, Lieutenant you're ... DIFFERENT, of course." <Majel looks away even sadder at that!> d'oh!

Forget the fact that there was at least one other woman already serving on the bridge when the fax-like printout of the distress call came through a scene or two back!

Pike is stunningly sexist in that scene - it occurs to me that maybe he is trying to push Number One and Colt away because he is attracted to them but can't allow himself to form an intimate relationship with his crew.

NBC didn't want De Kelley because he'd been a fairly common face in TV westerns up until then and they were afraid that would take the viewer out of the fantastic setting of space.

I only ever saw De in a single western...something in B & W shown on Nick at Nite back in the late '80s. Managed to pick up a few seconds on VHS...he was some sort of western gang member, but he was a simpleton and did something stupid that put the law on the gang, so they shot and killed him.

Funny...after all these years seeing him as McCoy, the exact OPPOSITE of NBC's objection kicked in 'cause he SURE seemed out of place in the old west!

Though I've seen most of the TOS cast in other shows (Twilight Zone etc.) I've never seen De Kelley in anything else - it would be interesting!



Christopher's point about the order of the charatcers in GR's Trek proposal is interesting. I'd forgotten that Colt appeared last.

The pilot only has "Starring Jeffrey Hunter" in the opening credits. Would Spock have had an "also starring" credit in this version or would be be a minor character - maybe the level of Scotty in the series?

 

[Christopher]

I'd forgotten that - was Number One listed second?

First came the captain (April in this version), then Number One, then navigator "Jose Ortegas," then Dr. Boyce, then "First Lieutenant" Mr. Spock (described as "the captain's right-hand man"), then Colt. But Spock has the longest description of any character other than the captain, so their order in the outline doesn't necessarily reflect their importance. (Colt's description is not just the last but just about the shortest, roughly tied with Boyce, and focusing more on her superficial feminine aspects than anything really substantial.)

Pike is stunningly sexist in that scene - it occurs to me that maybe he is trying to push Number One and Colt away because he is attracted to them but can't allow himself to form an intimate relationship with his crew.

In 1964, it wouldn't have been seen as particularly sexist. Pike didn't say he didn't want women on the bridge, just that he has trouble getting used to it.

The pilot only has "Starring Jeffrey Hunter" in the opening credits. Would Spock have had an "also starring" credit in this version or would be be a minor character - maybe the level of Scotty in the series?

At the time, it was fairly common for only one or two actors to get regular billing. Remember, even DeForest Kelley didn't get regular billing until the second season, and he was in almost every episode of the first.

 

[Kryton]

Though I've seen most of the TOS cast in other shows (Twilight Zone etc.) I've never seen De Kelley in anything else - it would be interesting!

Feast on this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3hKGezANH4

Try not to think of "Spectre of the Gun".

 

[Warped9]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks.

I think most women would be quick to reject that thought, but I believe it's rather true.

 

[T'Bonz]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks.

I think most women would be quick to reject that thought, but I believe it's rather true.

Why would we reject it? I wouldn't have kicked Harrison Ford out of bed for crumbs. Heck, he can still park his hat on my bedpost.

 

[Tralah]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks.

I think most women would be quick to reject that thought, but I believe it's rather true.

Why would we reject it? I wouldn't have kicked Harrison Ford out of bed for crumbs. Heck, he can still park his hat on my bedpost.

Reject it? I wholeheartedly embrace it! Sorry, T'Bonz, I've called dibs on Harrison Ford!

 

[Kryton]

Indy V: Indiana Jones and the Horned-Up Geek Chicks.

 

[Warped9]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks.

I think most women would be quick to reject that thought, but I believe it's rather true.

Why would we reject it? I wouldn't have kicked Harrison Ford out of bed for crumbs. Heck, he can still park his hat on my bedpost.

Hmm. Would you even buy him the cookies to make crumbs?

 

[T'Bonz]

For Harrison Ford, I'd BAKE the cookies.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^^Oh, I think women can be just as superficial as men when it comes to swooning over actors based on their looks.

I think most women would be quick to reject that thought, but I believe it's rather true.

Having worked in an office that was predominately women, I must say that they're no different from men when it comes to superficiality despite any claims that they are the more "evolved" sex.