If Hunter Stayed...

[Basil]

Therin of Andor said:

Basil said:
The show would have resembled "The Next Generation" more in tone

How? TNG was very much a product (and reflection) of the decisions-by-consensus 80s boardroom mentality, and its ensemble cast was also an 80s phenomenon.

"The Cage" set up a father/son relationship between the doctor and captain, while TNG's were almost unrequited lovers. "The Cage" showed a captain who raced off into danger on landing parties, while Picard was often left back on the ship.

You're talking about the particulars of relationships; my comment was about tone.

Pike was much more like Picard in that he was significantly less humorous than Kirk, more introspective (almost brooding) and low key, and didn't seem especially open to discussing his feelings -- his relationship with Dr. Boyce was more the result of Boyce broaching the situation than some mutual father/son relationship. The other crew members seemed cut of much the same cloth, or at least no one was drawn so broadly as to undercut the sober tone of "The Cage," though, by contrast, Spock seems to have more emotional range than his captain.

The boardroom mentality and so forth may or may not have become a part of the series, but I think the tone would have. In the end, the series would have been less romantic and, by the middle of the second season, less "swashbuckling" and more like TNG in its tone than the "Star Trek" we know and love. Of course, that assumes it would have made it past the first season.

 

[Broccoli]

Okay, I think many of you are confusing what I was asking.

As far as I know, GR still wanted Hunter to stick around after "The Cage." He (or his wife, depending on the story) wanted to leave.

Say he didn't leave. All the other changes take place that we got on TOS (which would have happened anyway, Hunter or not). But we still had Pike, but I suspect a more Kirk-like Pike.

Now, my original question was how would "The Cage" fit within continuity? Would it be an adventure that took place several years earlier? Or would it just be an adventure that happened the previous week (cast changes be damned)? Would that story even be acknowledged at all?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Look how WNMHGB was treated after regular production started. The Cage would probably have been treated the same way.

 

[Lee]

Broccoli said:As far as I know, GR still wanted Hunter to stick around after "The Cage." He (or his wife, depending on the story) wanted to leave.

The way I understand it is, everyone wanted Hunter to stay, including Hunter and his wife, but the wife made so many demands and was so annoying that GR et al. agreed among themselves to replace Hunter so they wouldn't have to spend the next however many years dealing with his wife.

 

[Noname Given]

Lee said:

Broccoli said:As far as I know, GR still wanted Hunter to stick around after "The Cage." He (or his wife, depending on the story) wanted to leave.

The way I understand it is, everyone wanted Hunter to stay, including Hunter and his wife, but the wife made so many demands and was so annoying that GR et al. agreed among themselves to replace Hunter so they wouldn't have to spend the next however many years dealing with his wife.

Actually, from what I've heard/read, his wife WAS the issue in that she saw her husband, Jeffery Hunter, as more of a big leading man hollywood feature film star; and didn't want him associated with a T.V. series dealing wuth spaceships, ray guns and bulb-headed aliens. She felt it would ruin his chances of a main stream movie carrer in Hollywood.

 

[trevanian]

Vance said:
Considering that WNMHGB was part of the original show's initial pitch, we would have gotten it previousy.

How do you mean, initial pitch? It isn't even GR's script. I think Peeples' work is better than most of GR's and is among the primary reasons the series got on the air.

I don't see Pike/Hunter working, for the reasons Nimoy mentioned in SHATNER: WHERE NO MAN, that his recessiveness wouldn't have jived with Nimoy's own approach and you'd have had nobody coming forward. Trek needed what Shatner started out with, and was able to survive what he morphed into once he felt his oats, but I don't see Trek going 13 weeks with Hunter (even if they had Coon -- who in my mind is the reason there IS a trekbbs -- in earlier, I don't see Hunter working.)

 

[MikeH92467]

The tortured, introspective captain certainly couldn't have carried the series for any length of time. But I think there would have been a quick shift away that theme. I don't think Pike would have ever been the rollicking character Kirk was, I do think the events of the Cage could have been explained away as an isolated instance of an overworked Captain taking too much personal responsibility for events beyond his control.

I think the comparison to Picard is a good one. It took quite a while for the writers to figure out how to show him as anything but a stuffed shirt. Given time (in those days a show basically got a full run unless it totally laid an egg) I think we would have seen Pike loosen up somewhat.

It's interesting that with Shatner, his antics and ego growth showed up directly on the screen. With Hunter the ego tripping took place behind the scenes.

 

[AC84]

Vance said:
Considering that WNMHGB was part of the original show's initial pitch, we would have gotten it previousy.

I think, too, that Pike could have carried the show a bit, if all the other changes had still happened. If they hadn't, though, the show will still be stuck with 1950s sensibilities in 1966.

"Women drivers, pfeh!"

Pike's reaction to the women in his crew was ill concieved then (several other shows had women in equal roles, after all)... to see it dragged out...

I thought the whole reason Pike's first officer (Number One) was a female was due to Gene Roddenberry wanting to show a progressive future for Star Trek.....that and he wanted a possible love interest for Pike and a leading role for his real-life love interest.

I always saw Captain Pike as a troubled misogynist sexist that for some reason, saw his first officer as simply "one of the guys".

 

[Trekwatcher]

AC84 said:

Vance said:
Considering that WNMHGB was part of the original show's initial pitch, we would have gotten it previousy.

I think, too, that Pike could have carried the show a bit, if all the other changes had still happened. If they hadn't, though, the show will still be stuck with 1950s sensibilities in 1966.

"Women drivers, pfeh!"

Pike's reaction to the women in his crew was ill concieved then (several other shows had women in equal roles, after all)... to see it dragged out...

I thought the whole reason Pike's first officer (Number One) was a female was due to Gene Roddenberry wanting to show a progressive future for Star Trek.....that and he wanted a possible love interest for Pike and a leading role for his real-life love interest.

I always saw Captain Pike as a troubled misogynist sexist that for some reason, saw his first officer as simply "one of the guys".

Yeah, but "The Cage" is only one show. In that episode, despite Pike's clearly uncharitable attitude towards Number One, she is shown to be a very capable officer (especially at the end of the show; "It's wrong to create a whole race of humans to live as slaves.") I always wondered if they were setting the stage for their relationship, and Pike's feelings towards women in the service in general, to change over time. That could have been part of Pike's arc, much as Kirk and Spock became good friends over time, which they were clearly not at the begining of TOS.

 

[AC84]

It may have been one episode, but for that episode....a woman was in command of a starship when the Captain was kidnapped. 13 years later, I wouldn't be surprised if that woman was a starship Captain herself.

 

[Rachel88]

I just watched The Cage for the first time.
I have to say that I really enjoyed it, more so than the regular series that followed it.
I prefered the ship sound effects and more realistic bridge and corridor colours. It was nice to see the women dressed appropriately. And to have a female first officer at that time really impressed me.
I wish Hunter had stayed and that the pilot had aired.

 

[Samuel]

If Jeffrey Hunter had stayed there would've been a considerable change in the character dynamics. While the Kirk/Spock friendship might've been basically duplicated I don't think Pike wouldn't been as close to McCoy as Kirk was. Instead the friendship between McCoy and Scotty might've been more prominent. I doubt Pike would've been anywhere near the ladies man Kirk was.

 

[1001001]

I just watched The Cage for the first time.
I have to say that I really enjoyed it, more so than the regular series that followed it.
I prefered the ship sound effects and more realistic bridge and corridor colours. It was nice to see the women dressed appropriately. And to have a female first officer at that time really impressed me.
I wish Hunter had stayed and that the pilot had aired.

First of all, welcome to the board.

Second, please take the time to review the posting rules (there’s a link at the top of the forum).

This thread has been dead for 10 years. Let’s let it Rest In Peace.

Thanks.