If Enterprise launched with the Xindi saga...

[InstantKarma]

Speculate...

How do you think Enterprise would have done, had it launched with the season 3 Xindi saga in place of Broken Bow?

Also with some cosmetic changes to the Xindi. Remove the prosthetics from the xindi primates and make them look exactly like humans. Use CG reptilians. Have more than one race of reptilian and insectoid.

I'm guessing the ratings would have debuted at 16.0, stayed in the 10.0 range, peaking at the finale of the season around 11.0.

The second season it would have been moved to CBS for at least the premiere episode, getting a ridiculous 20.0 rating because of the network ratings boost.

 

[startrekwatcher]

InstantKarma said:
How do you think Enterprise would have done, had it launched with the season 3 Xindi saga in place of Broken Bow?

I think the Xindi arc came when it should have just like with DS9 not starting right off the bat with the Dominion conflict.

I think these Big Shocking Events need to come after a relatively normal introductory period to the universe the show occurs in and the characters. It allows us to see the contrasts in the characters by providing us with the baseline in seasons one and two.

I've said all along despite the notion among many fans that ENT's problem had nothing to do with the lack of arcs but from weak writing and uninteresting characters.

Also with some cosmetic changes to the Xindi. Remove the prosthetics from the xindi primates and make them look exactly like humans. Use CG reptilians. Have more than one race of reptilian and insectoid.

I was perfectly satisfied with the Xindi as conceived and executed. The Xindi arc had outstanding production design--the make-up, the costumes etc.

I'm guessing the ratings would have debuted at 16.0, stayed in the 10.0 range, peaking at the finale of the season around 11.0.

I don't know and frankly I've never been one of those fans who get a kick out of debating and analyzing ratings/demographics.

I do know that season three was uneven but far stronger than season one. Would people have been interested in it and stuck around? Who knows? I do have a feeling there'd be complaints about time travel driving the arc, complaints about never hearing of the Xindi or the attack that killed seven million in subsequent series, complaints about wanting a prequel and asking where are the Andorians/Vulcans/Klingons instead of these Xindi, complaints about the ship design, an emotional Vulcan, Vulcans not aiding Earth in the conflict, alien Nazis etc. By the way none of this bothered me personally.

I think you'd have a better argument by saying it should have started out with season four but a large part of those stories benefitted from build up from earlier seasons that you wouldn't have by starting out with it.

I think B&B's approach was sound with the episodic approach I just would have handled the characters better and strived to have a more consistent track record. People aren't averse to standalones but they want more Dead Stops, Minefields, Carbon Creks, Shuttle Pod Ones, The Catwalk, Regeneration, First Flight, Future Tense etc.

 

[JiNX-01]

I think we still needed at the very least, a season or two to get a baseline on the personalities and principles of the crew before they're thrown into the Xindi mission.

Otherwise, we don't have a reference point for the changes that these people will go through, particularly Archer. How will we appreciate his desperation ...
-- He resorts to torture to interrogate the Osarrian pirate
-- He tells Phlox to create Sim and then has him killed to save Trip
-- The murder of 3 Xindi in Azati Prime
-- Archer's actions in Fight or Flight vs. his decision in Damage.

I sympathize with Archer during the mission and later when he returns home and can't imagine ever again being the man he was.

Having said that, I do agree that ENT would probably have done better with fans if TPTB had had a more ambitious concept for the show -- especially because I for one, really liked the idea of a prequel series that shows humanity's early foray into deep space exploration. And the sad part is, they had a story thread handed to them on a silver platter in "Balance of Terror" and never took advantage of it until season 4.

 

[Alyssa]

The enterprise would most likely have failed in saving earth as they would never have met the Andorians and Shran would not have helped them board the sphere. Without Shrans ship then Degra's puny vessel would not have stood a chance against the Reptilians.

 

[TeutonicNights]

It might have worked, but not by starting with the attack on Earth.
But if he had seen the Xindi Council- maybe even with no further explanation- planning and executing acts of sabotage against the alpha quadrant (much like Future guy and others did), that might have been interesting. Of course what became the spherebuilders in ENT should eventually have turned out to be...the Romulans.

No need for the suliban/TCW/Expanse and a big LOST-esque "wtf?" feeling that would have kept people guessing what's really going on.
In a 7 year run, they would have had to bring in the Romulans as a player at some (early) point, and they wasted much time with introducing the Cabal, FG, The Xindi, The Spherebuilders etc, which didn't lead anywhere.

 

[Smiley]

In some ways, it would have been worse to start with the Xindi arc. Audiences would know that Earth survives. There needs to be that preexisting attachment to the characters to make the arc interesting and effective. Without that, why would casual fans tune in?

 

[Cyclopean]

To answer the OP's question, I think the show would have had much better ratings. But Future Guy would have had to been writing the scripts, for the show to debut so soon after 9/11 with a 9/11 allegory.

I think the Xindi thing should have happened at the end of season one, and agree that it should have involved the Romulans as the ultimate culprits. I would have liked a recurring colony world that Enterprise has to aid, developing interesting recurring characters, all of whom get killed in a nuclear attack at the end of season one.

That would have pulled in the audience a lot more than Trip's hitherto-unknown sister.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Well, I don't think it would have improved things, but I hated the Xindi Arc, so I may not be the best judge!

 

[Nebusj]

JiNX-01 said:
I think we still needed at the very least, a season or two to get a baseline on the personalities and principles of the crew before they're thrown into the Xindi mission.

Oh, not hardly. There'd be plenty of establishing the ``personalities and principles'' from the episodes of the start of the arc, when there wasn't a whole lot going on that couldn't have gone on the first two seasons.

And, honestly, is the personality of Mayweather such an intricate thing we really needed the two hours of dedicated study plus incidental bits spread over the first 48 hours before we could understand his role in the Xindi Mission?

 

[RandyS]

Smiley said:
In some ways, it would have been worse to start with the Xindi arc. Audiences would know that Earth survives. There needs to be that preexisting attachment to the characters to make the arc interesting and effective. Without that, why would casual fans tune in?

Exactly right. The Xindi arc had no business on ENTERPRISE in any shape or form.

Now, if they had done it from the beginning on a show set in the 25th century, on the other hand, maybe, MAYBE, it might have worked, but not as part of the prequel.

 

[startrekwatcher]

RandyS said:
The Xindi arc had no business on ENTERPRISE in any shape or form.

Why? I enjoyed it quite a bit. It might not have included prequel aliens or stories one would expect but it made sense in context but that doesn't make it any less worthy or entertaining. On its own terms it worked mostly and injected much needed tension, suspense, mystery and excitement the show was severely lacking in its first two seasons.

If there was going to be time travelers trying to undermine the Federation, targeting Earth in a time period where it was isolated with few allies willing to get involved would make the most sense.

It also showcased effectively the limitations of 22nd century technology and put our crew at a decided disadvantage. They had no replicators to replace damaged materials and portions of the ship.

 

[RandyS]

startrekwatcher said:
injected much needed tension, suspense, mystery and excitement the show was severely lacking in its first two seasons.

No it didn't, and that is precisely why it had no buisness in the prequel. Think about it. The stakes were the Xindi were going to destroy Earth, the planet we know from the previous four series (all of which take place after ENTERPRISE) was the captiol of the Federation, and all of those later crews visited Earth at one point or another in their lifetimes.

Right there, the writers killed the suspense factor. We knew Archer was gonna save Earth because of the other shows. There was no reason to sit through a (mostly abysmal) season when we knew the outcome in advance, so the ratings were bound to suffer anyway.

 

[startrekwatcher]

RandyS said:
No it didn't, and that is precisely why it had no buisness in the prequel. Think about it. The stakes were the Xindi were going to destroy Earth, the planet we know from the previous four series (all of which take place after ENTERPRISE) was the captiol of the Federation, and all of those later crews visited Earth at one point or another in their lifetimes.

Well I was able to buy into the jeopardy on its own terms. I was also interested in learning more about the Xindi, the future forces motivating the Xindi, whether FG was telling the truth or partial truth about the reason Xindi attacked, the mystery of the spheres and their purpose, how the NX would sway the Xindi from destroying Earth and its effect on the crew, where the council was located, how the crew would stop the weapon.

And watching the Xindi story unfold originally back in 2003/2004 I can tell you the final six or so episodes were a thrill ride. While you might know the general idea there ere plenty of unexpected surprises and turn of events-Hoshi's kidnapping, T'Pol's trellium addiction, the Sphere Builders being the Xindi's future guy/gal, seeing the ENT-J, seeing the Federation ceremony, the alien Nazis, Degra's death in "The Council", Archer's actions coupled with some great visuals and battles.

True the season was uneven mostly due to far too many uninteresting filler episodes meant to drag out the arc to a full season but when focusing on the Xindi/sphere I personally found it good to great.

 

[Saxman1]

I loved the Xindi saga. Sure, there was some filler, but it was a killer season, right where is was in the show's run. You had some context and character establishment, therefore seeing Archer having to make painful decisions. He became a different person during that arch, one he questioned in season four. I still don't get, even with admitted flaws, all the ENT hate.

 

[182]

InstantKarma said:
Speculate...

How do you think Enterprise would have done, had it launched with the season 3 Xindi saga in place of Broken Bow?

I don't think it would have done as well.. I think why people liked the Xindi arc more than the rest was because of the massive character growth.. granted, they of course did NOTHING with that growth, but at the time of viewing, it really matters. People went through anguish, despair, a lot of self hatred, the ship being blown apart, just total and utter chaos, changing them from the people they WERE..

 

[pookha]

RandyS said:

startrekwatcher said:
injected much needed tension, suspense, mystery and excitement the show was severely lacking in its first two seasons.

No it didn't, and that is precisely why it had no buisness in the prequel. Think about it. The stakes were the Xindi were going to destroy Earth, the planet we know from the previous four series (all of which take place after ENTERPRISE) was the captiol of the Federation, and all of those later crews visited Earth at one point or another in their lifetimes.

Right there, the writers killed the suspense factor. We knew Archer was gonna save Earth because of the other shows. There was no reason to sit through a (mostly abysmal) season when we knew the outcome in advance, so the ratings were bound to suffer anyway.

the ratings actually went up some toward the end of the xindi arc.

while i still think it had some of the best episodes in the series toward the end of the arc i am glad it didnt come till later on.

i do wish the second season had continued more of the first season stories (instead of waiting late to do cease fire) instead of all those episodes which were which crew man would get seperated from the ship and get rescued we got.

and the studio messed the series up with the order to stop using the vulcans so much.

 

[kipron]

I do think the series would have done better (critically AND commercially) if it was more mission-based from the get go.

I mean sure, exploration is nice and all but until S3 there was little rhyme or reason to it.

(Granted, TOS and TNG were much the same.)

 

[Akira Class]

No, the Xindi arc worked best where it was.

What I would have done was make the trip to the Klingon Home World the overall arc of Season 1. Instead of 4 days at Warp 5, have the trip take 4 months, with Enterprise stopping to explore here and there and pick up supplies. Of course, the Suliban slip in every so often to try and re-take our Klingon friend and Enterprise occasionally runs afoul of other space faring races.

 

[Anna Yolei]

The problem wasn't that ENT didn't start with the Xindi. The problem was that there wasn't enough shit that people cared to see in the first two seasons. Why bother with Borg and Ferengi in a prequel when fans were hoping to see stuff like the Romulan War?

I'm not one of the fanboys who is foaming at the mouth because oh teh noes, Xindi didn't exist in TOS so we shouldn't have them--far from it. Hell, I wished this show *did* decide to evolve more of its own identity in season four. But the show took its time with developing anything of interest in the same matter that every other Trek since TNG did, but after two decades of this, few people had the patience to stick it out.

:shrugs:

 

[Anwar]

But if people complained that there was no point to do the Xindi arc at all since we knew Earth would survive, what would be the point of doing a "Romulan War" or "Birth of the Federation" storyline either? Because already know how the war would turn out and that the Federation would be born, so what's the point of doing those stories when we already knew the outcome?

That's why I think the idea of a prequel was a bad idea to begin with: unlike Star Wars where we knew practically nothing about the past era, Trek already had a chronicled history telling us what happened so there wouldn't be any room for creativity.

Heck, I'd be willing to bet that most people hated the Vulcan-Andor war thing because it was never referenced in any of the other shows.