If an Aegis agent is on the planet and Feds know

[Wadjda]

Guiding development and all that good stuff. Does the Federation remove him in order to enforce the Prime Directive?

 

[Finn]

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Wadjda]

Gary 7's guys are Aegis.

 

[Melakon]

The name Aegis is from a novel by Greg Cox, who hovers around here sometimes, and it's called The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh, Volume 1. Maybe he'll see the thread title.

 

[Finn]

So shouldn't this be in Trek Literature?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Gary Seven is TOS and while his people were never called "Aegis" in Assignment: Earth, they are mentioned. They also do as Wadjda describes, so it might be a problem if discovered by the Federation. Though "The Aegis" are more advanced than the UFP so maybe there's little the UFP could do.

 

[The Wormhole]

Guiding development and all that good stuff. Does the Federation remove him in order to enforce the Prime Directive?

No, the Prime Directive only applies to Starfleet officers. Even Federation civilians are not required to follow it. Also, the Prime Directive only requires Starfleet officers not to interfere in a planet's development, it does not require Starfleet to police space and prevent others from interfering in a planet's development. The Prime Directive is only Starfleet's policy its officers and personnel are required to follow, not an edict forced upon the rest of the galaxy.

 

[Timo]

Even Federation civilians are not required to follow it.

There's only one bit of contradictory evidence on that: Kirk claims he holds jurisdiction over the civilian Merrick in "Bread and Circuses" for his interference with the local culture, and refers to "one of our most important laws" for that.

Kirk may be lying, though, to Get His Man. And while Claudius tries to equate the rules that make Merrick a criminal with the rules that bind Kirk's hands, it's far from certain that Merrick was to be accused of PD violation. There could be a different law that only forbids civilians from actually becoming politically involved in primitive cultures, or whatever. Gary Seven didn't run for any office we would know of...

The same episode has Kirk justify his interference as an attempt to remove previous interference. But again, Kirk may be lying, being pissed off at the fact that Merrick is not just a crook but a Starfleet Academy dropout. Who could hate Gary Seven and his cute attempts at smiling?

Apart from that, the PD indeed seems to exist solely to stop Starfleet officers from exercising their godlike powers for actually becoming local gods. Which in turn might mean Kirk sees no fault in ousting the likes of Gary Seven, an act that doesn't profit Starfleet or him personally.

In TNG, a century later, it's clear that Picard can't even stop UFP citizens from interfering unless they are Starfleet personnel - indeed, the PD itself stops Picard there ("Angel One"). Chances of him being cleared for stopping Gary Seven would be slim indeed, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

The PD applies specifically to Starfleet. The PD being a Starfleet "thing" it would not apply to anyone outside.

If say the First Federation were helping a pre-industrial planet (for whatever reason), Starfleet couldn't say boo to them.

And really ... "Aegis?"

 

[Wadjda]

Even Federation civilians are not required to follow it.

There's only one bit of contradictory evidence on that: Kirk claims he holds jurisdiction over the civilian Merrick in "Bread and Circuses" for his interference with the local culture, and refers to "one of our most important laws" for that.

Kirk may be lying, though, to Get His Man. And while Claudius tries to equate the rules that make Merrick a criminal with the rules that bind Kirk's hands, it's far from certain that Merrick was to be accused of PD violation. There could be a different law that only forbids civilians from actually becoming politically involved in primitive cultures, or whatever. Gary Seven didn't run for any office we would know of...

The same episode has Kirk justify his interference as an attempt to remove previous interference. But again, Kirk may be lying, being pissed off at the fact that Merrick is not just a crook but a Starfleet Academy dropout. Who could hate Gary Seven and his cute attempts at smiling?

Apart from that, the PD indeed seems to exist solely to stop Starfleet officers from exercising their godlike powers for actually becoming local gods. Which in turn might mean Kirk sees no fault in ousting the likes of Gary Seven, an act that doesn't profit Starfleet or him personally.

In TNG, a century later, it's clear that Picard can't even stop UFP citizens from interfering unless they are Starfleet personnel - indeed, the PD itself stops Picard there ("Angel One"). Chances of him being cleared for stopping Gary Seven would be slim indeed, then.

Timo Saloniemi

So civilians should feel free make themselves Gods and mess up any primitive culture, basically making the regulation/law irrelevant?

 

[T'Girl]

So civilians should feel free make themselves Gods and mess up any primitive culture, basically making the regulation/law irrelevant?

If there's a legal mechanism in place to stop what you've suggested, it's implementation isn't carried out by Starfleet. That does not mean there's no organization that does.

Starfleet doesn't investigate time travel by people within the Federation, but apparently there's a organization within the Federation that does.

 

[Shawnster]

Even Federation civilians are not required to follow it.

There's only one bit of contradictory evidence on that: Kirk claims he holds jurisdiction over the civilian Merrick in "Bread and Circuses" for his interference with the local culture, and refers to "one of our most important laws" for that.

Kirk may be lying, though, to Get His Man. And while Claudius tries to equate the rules that make Merrick a criminal with the rules that bind Kirk's hands, it's far from certain that Merrick was to be accused of PD violation. There could be a different law that only forbids civilians from actually becoming politically involved in primitive cultures, or whatever. Gary Seven didn't run for any office we would know of...

R.M. Merik was a commanding officer of a Federation merchant marine ship. Historically, the United States Merchant Marines can fall under both civilian and governmental authorities.'


From Wiki

The United States Merchant Marine[1] is the fleet of U.S. civilian-owned merchant vessels, operated by either the government or the private sector, that engage in commerce or transportation of goods and services in and out of the navigable waters of the United States. The Merchant Marine is responsible for transporting cargo and passengers during peacetime. In time of war, the Merchant Marine is capable of being an auxiliary to the Navy, and can be called upon to deliver military personnel and materiel for the military.[2] The Merchant Marine however, does not have a role in combat, although a merchant mariner has a responsibility to protect cargo carried aboard his ship.

The US Merchant Marine FAQ is interesting. It seems ambiguous enough that US Navy officers might have some influence and authority over merchant marines, but I'm not certain at all.

And we have no idea what kind of authority structure exists in the Federation in connection with their merchant marines.

 

[CorporalClegg]

And really ... "Aegis?"

What's wrong with it?

 

[The Wormhole]

So civilians should feel free make themselves Gods and mess up any primitive culture, basically making the regulation/law irrelevant?

The Prime Directive is a code of conduct of how Starfleet expects its officers to act and behave. Today's militaries have similar codes of conducts that its personnel must follow, but a civilian could very well go their whole lives never doing.

 

[Melakon]

The Federation merchant marine must have some sort of non-interference article. Else they'd be dropping Coca-Cola bottles on stone age cultures constantly.

 

[Wadjda]

.
If there's a legal mechanism in place to stop what you've suggested, it's implementation isn't carried out by Starfleet. That does not mean there's no organization that does.

What other organization's roams unknown space to enforce it?

 

[Timo]

So civilians should feel free make themselves Gods and mess up any primitive culture, basically making the regulation/law irrelevant?

The relevance would come from the fact that Starfleet personnel operate starships, with photon torpedoes and phasers, while civilians do not. Civilians simply aren't all that threatening. If they do manage to influence local development, so what? Nobody really cares. But if Starfleet does that, the next thing we're looking at is a de facto or even de jure military coup.

It's not the worshippers that matter, but the gods.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

The Federation merchant marine must have some sort of non-interference article. Else they'd be dropping Coca-Cola bottles on stone age cultures constantly.

I suspect that all Federation Officals, be they civilian or Starfleet have to sign up for some sort of the PD. A private citizen wouldn't have to. You own your own ship, you are free to do as you please.

 

[Wadjda]

So civilians should feel free make themselves Gods and mess up any primitive culture, basically making the regulation/law irrelevant?

The relevance would come from the fact that Starfleet personnel operate starships, with photon torpedoes and phasers, while civilians do not. Civilians simply aren't all that threatening. If they do manage to influence local development, so what? Nobody really cares. But if Starfleet does that, the next thing we're looking at is a de facto or even de jure military coup.

It's not the worshippers that matter, but the gods.

Timo Saloniemi

Send a squad of fully armed Seals to Ancient Rome and stuff can change a lot. It's not like Quin Cervantes and people like him don't exist in Trek.

 

[T'Girl]

Send a squad of fully armed Seals to Ancient Rome and stuff can change a lot.

I would imagine things would change considerably right after they ran out of ammunition.

The (typically) 8 man SEAL squad could certainly create a fair amount of havoc, but ultimately their impact on Roman politics and society would be negligible.