IDW's Nero #1 (Spoliers)
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Mr. Crane
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Kor Jr inherited IKS Klothos from his Dad.
Couldn't be his dad, since he's canonically Kor, son of Rynar (according to "Once More Unto the Breach"). His uncle?
DS9 and TNG established that Klingons mature very rapidly (Worf's son Alexander was serving as an adult officer on a Klingon war vessel in 2374/75, even though chronologically he was only 8 years old - born in 2366), and seem very long-lived, since Kor, Kang, and Koloth were all alive and in fighting form in DS9 period, so we may assume that Klingons may be like Vulcans, who age very slowly, like Tuvok and T'Pol, who were both much much older than they physically look (as for Spock, I always assumed that Spock looked so old compared to the other Vulcans at a much younger age because of his pesky human blood
)So, Kor may have been much older than he actually appeared in "Errand of Mercy", perhaps... I dunno...
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Mr. Crane
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Yeah, I've been puzzling over the whole thing with Kor having ridges too. I thought maybe he could have had fake ridges grafted onto his head at this time, and he later got rid of them, but I'm not too sure. And yeah, I doubt he would have already been a captain at this time.
Kor Jr inherited IKS Klothos from his Dad.
Couldn't be his dad, since he's canonically Kor, son of Rynar (according to "Once More Unto the Breach"). His uncle?
But if Kor's uncle had ridges, wouldn't Kor have them too? Maybe he was a friend of Rynar's, and Rynar named his son after him? Seems for logical to me.
And then there's the matter of where the Klingons got those cloaking devices.
Or, maybe Kor contracted some form of the original virus from ENT between 2233 and 2267 which made him lose his ridges, a mutant strain. As we see in our own real world, virus' we cure often re-emerge in a new strain - just look at the flu!
The fact that there's a guy called Kor in command of a ship called the Klothos makes it pretty unavoidable that there's a connection, hence the idea that he's a relative of the original Kor, possibly his (paternal?) uncle. I propose that Kor, son of Rynar, was probably born around 2219, so he would be in his late 40s in Errand of Mercy. Rynar and his brother, Kor the elder, would probably have been born sometime between 2190 and 2200. As for the head ridges......I'm really not sure. Perhaps we should just deem it an error of artistic license and assume he doesn't really have any ridges.
No, it doesn't. Three Starfleet vessels named Enterprise have been commanded by men named John or some variant thereof (Jonathan Archer, John Harriman, Jean-Luc Picard), but there's no relation between those three men.
There are probably tens if not hundreds of billions of Klingons in the galaxy. There could be thousands of Klingon warriors named Kor. And Klothos could easily be a popular ship name.
Chris,
You make a salient point, but come on. The appearance of Kor and Klothos had to be made in Nero #1 because of the relation to the Prime universe Kor. Why name him Kor if he is not related to the Prime Kor in some fashion? Similar to Countdown, I think the writers of Nero are doing a name dropping kind of thing as a tip of the hat to TOS fans, like the inclusion of so many TNG characters in Countdown was for TNG fans.
You make a salient point, but come on. The appearance of Kor and Klothos had to be made in Nero #1 because of the relation to the Prime universe Kor. Why name him Kor if he is not related to the Prime Kor in some fashion? Similar to Countdown, I think the writers of Nero are doing a name dropping kind of thing as a tip of the hat to TOS fans, like the inclusion of so many TNG characters in Countdown was for TNG fans.
^Yes, obviously that is what the writers intended. I have already explicitly said I'm aware of that, so I don't understand why you think I need it pointed out to me. For the second time, my point is that, while it is obviously meant to be the Kor we know, it doesn't make much sense that it would be that Kor, for the reasons I have spelled out above. Therefore, I am suggesting an alternative way for the reader to interpret the story, one that resolves the continuity problems in a nice, simple way.
An analogy would be the story in The Lives of Dax that features a Vulcan named T'Pau visiting Trill in 2075. Obviously the writer intended it to be the T'Pau from "Amok Time." But then ENT came along and explicitly established that T'Pau had been born in 2122. That creates a contradiction which can be reconciled simply by assuming it's a different Vulcan with the same name. That's not what the author intended, but the author's intent no longer works, so a little creative interpretation on the part of the reader is called for.
An analogy would be the story in The Lives of Dax that features a Vulcan named T'Pau visiting Trill in 2075. Obviously the writer intended it to be the T'Pau from "Amok Time." But then ENT came along and explicitly established that T'Pau had been born in 2122. That creates a contradiction which can be reconciled simply by assuming it's a different Vulcan with the same name. That's not what the author intended, but the author's intent no longer works, so a little creative interpretation on the part of the reader is called for.
^If you disapprove of "snippy" comments, you shouldn't have said "but come on" to me. Or talked to me as if I were unaware of something I had very explicitly stated my awareness of. You "made a point" in a manner that was condescending, so you don't have any business acting like you're the injured party here.
Good issue, I enjoyed it. Good art as well...felt like it did during the movie.
LOL. Welcome to the Internet, where many well-intentioned comments and posters are labelled "snippy".
Calling Christopher "Chris" might not have helped. He's said many times he prefers "Christopher", and yet people keep contracting his name like they're his longtime pals.
One explanation might be that the Nerada not only went back in time through the black hole, but to an alternate universe (a la the USS Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly").
Good reason as any to explain the continuity errors in both Star Trek XI and this comic. The USS Kelvin was a bit advanced for its time... Plus why the original Prime Trek timeline is "still there" when in the past (like "Yesterday's Enterprise" and First Contact) time travel did result in the overwriting of the timeline.
Good reason as any to explain the continuity errors in both Star Trek XI and this comic. The USS Kelvin was a bit advanced for its time... Plus why the original Prime Trek timeline is "still there" when in the past (like "Yesterday's Enterprise" and First Contact) time travel did result in the overwriting of the timeline.
I didn't know that he prefers to be called Christopher. I'll make a note of that when I reply to him in the future. As for condescension, I'll take that point as well, but I don't think Mr. Bennett hasn't been condescending himself from time to time. If I offended him it wasn't my intention though.
Sidenote: I loved the first Nero issue BTW. I hope they can maintain the same quality throughout the run of the miniseries.
Sidenote: I loved the first Nero issue BTW. I hope they can maintain the same quality throughout the run of the miniseries.
An alternate universe (as the term is used in fiction) and an alternate timeline are exactly the same thing. The Mirror Universe is a divergent timeline; it has to be, otherwise it wouldn't have the same planets, species, individuals, etc.
People have said the same thing about NX-01. The explanation is that they're works of fiction made in different eras. The depictions can't be taken with slavish literalism; they're just variant interpretations of an imaginary construct. If every tiny discrepancy in interpretation were attributed to an alternate reality, then the ST canon that we know would have to be assumed to consist of hundreds of different alternate realities.
The Kelvin wasn't advanced for its time; the 1960s portrayal of the Enterprise was backward for its time, since it was created in the 1960s when a lot of ideas we're aware of today hadn't been developed yet. And you can be sure that when people in the actual 23rd century look back on 1966 and 2009 depictions of their technology, they'll find both of them absurdly primitive in some ways and absurdly optimistic in others. They both represent their generations' respective attempts to convey an impression of advanced technology to their respective audiences.
"Overwriting" is nonsense. It shouldn't work that way, no matter how many works of fiction have claimed it does. We don't actually know that the timeline was overwritten in those works you mention; it could simply be that the viewpoint characters moved from one timeline to another and it therefore seemed to them as though an overwriting had occurred. Or maybe the laws of temporal physics are complex enough to allow for apparent overwriting in some circumstances and coexistence in others. Indeed, the Mirror Universe episodes and "Parallels" have established it as an indisputable fact that alternative timelines can and do coexist (as did "All Good Things..." if you assume that Q was sending Picard to an actual alternate past and future rather than simply creating an illusion). So even if something that manifests as "overwriting" does exist in some form, that doesn't mean it's the only possible outcome to an alternative-timeline scenario.
If anything, Trek has established that the time-travel physics of its universe encompasses all possible outcomes. Sometimes time travel appears to change history, as in your examples. Sometimes it merely serves as part of a fixed historical loop (as in "Assignment: Earth" and The Voyage Home). Sometimes it behaves in weird hybrid ways, as in "Accession" or "Shattered." So why can't it also include the outcome of the original and altered timelines coexisting? Star Trek temporal physics is such a hodgepodge already that it's disingenuous to assume it must exclude any given possibility.
Interesting point. I guess I was thinking more along the way Sliders presented alternate universes.
So, in your view, was the Abrams-verse divergent from the Prime timeline prior to 2233? I find it hard to believe all the changes portrayed were the result of one ship being destroyed.
So, in your view, was the Abrams-verse divergent from the Prime timeline prior to 2233? I find it hard to believe all the changes portrayed were the result of one ship being destroyed.
The intent is that the Kelvin attack is the point of divergence, and it's the simplest way of handling it. As I said, many of the "changes" are really just differences of artistic interpretation, no more worth building a theory of alternate realities on than the changes in the depiction of Starfleet tech between TOS & TMP. (I find it hard to believe such a wholesale transformation of every single bit of Starfleet technology, equipment, and clothing could take place within a mere three or four years, without any of the old stuff being kept around.)
But as Roberto Orci has commented in interviews, that one incident had a lot of repercussions. An incredibly advanced ship comes out of nowhere and destroys a Starfleet ship of the line. Sensor scans from the escape shuttles and telemetry sent back to Starfleet reveal it was a Romulan ship. How would Starfleet react to that? They'd think they were facing a new Romulan threat. They'd rework their plans for the entire fleet. They'd build more ships, bigger ships. They'd upgrade their technology using the information about the Narada's advanced tech as derived from those scans. Maybe they'd move their orbital spacedocks to the surface for security. Maybe they'd recruit more aliens into Starfleet to make it a stronger defensive force. And all that restructuring of the fleet would affect countless lives, have all sorts of domino effects, lead to all sorts of changes on all levels.
I got the assignment to write a follow-up novel to the film before the film even came out, so I've been thinking about this for a long time. And I haven't seen anything in the film that can't be explained either as a direct or indirect result of the Kelvin attack or as something that was already the case in the original timeline. Sometimes it takes a little creativity, but I believe it can be done. Like I said, there are plenty of serious continuity errors in the existing canon, but we still find ways to reconcile or ignore them. Why should this be any different?
^Whatever. The point is, the intent of the filmmakers in TMP may not have been so much "Starfleet did a wholesale revamp of all its technology at the same time and threw out all the old stuff even when it still worked perfectly well" and more along the lines of "This is what it really looked like all along but we weren't able to depict it as clearly before."
Really enjoyed Nero #1, especially after sloshing through Mission's End #4 (God, that's been disappointing).
As far as Kor and the Klothos go... what the hell? I'm in. Don't really care what DS9 says about his age. When we see him in 2266, he is the military governor of Organia. So he might be a bit older than we orginally envisioned.
We also get to see the Klingon Warden from Star Trek VI. Meaning he was at Rura Penthe sixty years prior to that movie.
As far as Kor and the Klothos go... what the hell? I'm in. Don't really care what DS9 says about his age. When we see him in 2266, he is the military governor of Organia. So he might be a bit older than we orginally envisioned.
We also get to see the Klingon Warden from Star Trek VI. Meaning he was at Rura Penthe sixty years prior to that movie.
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