IDW Mirror Image - TNG?

[Christopher]

And if set the comic after DS9, then you set in in the Relaunch era which is a possibility, but do are you willing to set the comic in a period that non-novel readers will find unfamiliar? If they are willing, then IDW has also to consider where it might be stepping on Pocket Book's toes and avoid doing so.

Wildstorm has already done two comic book miniseries set in the DS9 Relaunch period and featuring book characters, N-Vector and Divided We Fall.

I think that problem exists with Voyager as well. Since the crew has already made it home, and most of them scattered to the four winds, what would be the focus of the story? And, if you set it during its time in the Delta Quadrant, then you'd suffer your overall dramatic tension, since again, we all know how and when the crew finally made it back.

That's assuming that the quest for home is the exclusive focus that a VGR story can have. They told plenty of stories that weren't about that. Indeed, the developers of the show originally didn't intend the quest for home to be the overriding goal of the series; stranding the ship in the DQ was just meant to be a means to the end of telling TOS-like stories about a starship alone on the frontier with no backup and a captain having to make the big decisions with no superiors to pass the buck to. Their original intent was to downplay the search for home after a while as the crew got more caught up in exploring the wonders of the DQ. Although they didn't really try to live up to that until the third season, and then they completely abandoned it at the end of that season with "Scorpion," which pretty much locked in the quest for home as the overriding priority of the series.

So I don't think a VGR story has to be about the crew trying to get closer to home. Hell, I don't want a VGR story to be about that, since trying to run away from the frontier and retreat back to home and hearth is anathema to what Star Trek is supposed to be about. I think there's definitely room for Delta Quadrant stories, if they're strong enough as standalone tales of exploration, or if they can do something interesting with the characters within the limits of series continuity, or if they can build on the unfulfilled potential of ideas from the series (and there's certainly no shortage of unfulfilled potential in VGR).

 

[ATimson]

Their original intent was to downplay the search for home after a while as the crew got more caught up in exploring the wonders of the DQ.

If that was their intent, making half the crew be people who didn't want to be there was not the best choice they could have made.

 

[Christopher]

If that was their intent, making half the crew be people who didn't want to be there was not the best choice they could have made.

It wasn't anywhere near half the crew, not in terms of the main cast. Both the regular Maquis characters were formerly in Starfleet or at least the Academy, so presumably they both had some explorer spirit in them, and Chakotay was overtly a scientist. And Tom didn't care where he was so long as he was free to fly.

The poor choice, IMHO, was in stranding them there unwillingly in the first place. As soon as the premise was announced, fans (myself included) expressed concerns about the show becoming too much about failed attempts to get home, which was seen as a problem not only because it wasn't Trekkish enough but because quest series get tiresome and predictable with the constant failures. (Oh, David Banner's found a new way to stop turning into the Hulk? Let me know how that works out.) That's why the producers offered assurances that the quest aspect would be de-emphasized, but I was concerned that having to work against a core aspect of their premise would make it hard for them to fulfill that goal. And that turned out to be true, because the quest-for-home aspect ultimately overwhelmed the show, to the point that people today assume that was always meant to be its overriding priority.

If they wanted to do a TOS-style show about a captain and crew far from civilization with no backup, they should've had them go there willingly, like Stargate Atlantis did later on. Then they wouldn't have had that elephant in the room.

Although I'll admit that the later producers did sort of get around the constant-failure problem of a quest series by having Voyager periodically make jumps of some huge distance, thereby creating the illusion of success and progress without actually changing anything about the formula. And we actually did get a meaningful change when regular communication was established with Starfleet.

 

[Trent Roman]

Although I'll admit that the later producers did sort of get around the constant-failure problem of a quest series by having Voyager periodically make jumps of some huge distance, thereby creating the illusion of success and progress without actually changing anything about the formula. And we actually did get a meaningful change when regular communication was established with Starfleet.

As a viewer, that worked really well for me. I liked that there was incremental progress (I'm not sure I'd call it an illusion) towards both getting back into the contact with the Federation, and then physically getting there. And that we occasionally got glimpses of the search from the other side, if never anything with the heart of KRAD's "Distant Shores" story.

The downside of this tactic, though, is that it made Voyager even more internally-focused than it was before. The first seasons made attempts at fleshing out the cultures of the Kazon, the Vidiians, the Talaxians... but even at normal speed, they would move away from those territories eventually. After they started skipping large areas, it became even more difficult to provide any depht to the civilizations encoutered (I think the most detailed post-"Scorpion" would probably be the Hirogen and the Maalon).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Therin of Andor]

And, while, sure, there are all sorts of stories told during the TNG and TOS eras that fit just fine into the overall main series, that misses the point of those series: They were exploration missions, so you can drop in a previously unknown adventure and it fits the open-ended theme of the show just fine.

Yep. Similarly, the Pocket editors found it tricky to commission those early DS9 novels and keep them consistent to the fast pace of DS9's story arcs, and DS9 short stories were comparatively underrepresented in SNW each year.

 

[Christopher]

As a viewer, that worked really well for me. I liked that there was incremental progress (I'm not sure I'd call it an illusion)

Did jumping 9500 light-years in "The Gift" or 20,000 in "Dark Frontier" or 10,000 in "Timeless" have any impact whatsoever on the stories or the character arcs? Heck, even after that 20,000-ly jump, we still got two more Malon episodes, even though they should've been left a fifth of a galaxy away. We even saw Talaxians in the final season, more than 40,000 light-years from their home territory, with no explanation for how they traversed the distance. I call that an illusion of progress. I also call it a disregard for continuity and logic.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I call that an illusion of progress. I also call it a disregard for continuity and logic.

Yeah. The Kazon's sphere (or path?) of influence was amazing. The show seemed to get it right for a while but I was really annoyed that, after "The Gift", they ended up turning around and retracing their path to Borg space quite a considerable way, essentially undoing the gift Kes gave to the crew.

 

[Christopher]

The show seemed to get it right for a while but I was really annoyed that, after "The Gift", they ended up turning around and retracing their path to Borg space quite a considerable way, essentially undoing the gift Kes gave to the crew.

What are you talking about? You mean because they eventually started encountering the Borg again? We know the Borg are spread over a huge portion of the galaxy, not just one small area. Kes jumped them over a major portion of Borg space, but then they encountered other parts of it. No reason why an interstellar power has to be geographically contiguous, especially one that travels via transwarp conduits.

Or are you referring to their use of slipstream to chase after Arturis back to Borg territory in "Hope and Fear"? Janeway's final log entry said that they went back again after retrieving Seven, and even gained an additional 300 light years before the drive gave out.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Or are you referring to their use of slipstream to chase after Arturis back to Borg territory in "Hope and Fear"? Janeway's final log entry said that they went back again after retrieving Seven, and even gained an additional 300 light years before the drive gave out.

Yeah probably. I think I was so amazed they backtracked all that way I forgot they ended up better off.

 

[Stevil2001]

Didn't they also do some Borg-related backtracking in "Dark Frontier"?

 

[captcalhoun]

yep.

 

[Trent Roman]

Did jumping 9500 light-years in "The Gift" or 20,000 in "Dark Frontier" or 10,000 in "Timeless" have any impact whatsoever on the stories or the character arcs?

Not in and of itself, but why would it? The progress was geographical (astronomical?); nothing in the ship, or the people who crew it, should change because you were at Point B and are now at Point C on a longer journey. Voyager got progressively closer to home, and they started finding communication was easier, or aspects of the Alpha Quadrant that had made it out there under their own power (the Klingons, the Friendship One probe). One of the reasons I'd love to see the alternate history of "Endgame" filled in by a book are the two ships Starfleet dispatched to rendezvous with the Voyager, since this was now a feasible, if extremely long-term, mission.

We even saw Talaxians in the final season, more than 40,000 light-years from their home territory, with no explanation for how they traversed the distance. I call that an illusion of progress. I also call it a disregard for continuity and logic.

I just call it bad writing on that episode and don't worry about it more than that.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

Did jumping 9500 light-years in "The Gift" or 20,000 in "Dark Frontier" or 10,000 in "Timeless" have any impact whatsoever on the stories or the character arcs?

Not in and of itself, but why would it? The progress was geographical (astronomical?); nothing in the ship, or the people who crew it, should change because you were at Point B and are now at Point C on a longer journey. Voyager got progressively closer to home, and they started finding communication was easier, or aspects of the Alpha Quadrant that had made it out there under their own power (the Klingons, the Friendship One probe).

That's exactly my point. It wasn't until the last season and a half that any of the "progress" they made started having any real meaning rather than just being an arbitrary, purely superficial change in numbers. If they'd started making such real progress earlier, like, being permanently able to stay in touch with Starfleet through the transgalactic relay network rather than blowing the whole thing up after two episodes, then that would've made the progress less empty.

 

[JoeZhang]

But I don't understand why the viewer would care anyway, you knew they weren't going to get home until the last episode (well except for that rumour they'd get home about five episodes from the end) - the illusion of distance meant nothing to me (but then to be fair, I found Voyager to be fairly unbelievable at the best of times).

 

[Christopher]

But I don't understand why the viewer would care anyway, you knew they weren't going to get home until the last episode...

Which, again, is the inbuilt weakness of any show predicated on the pursuit of a single goal -- any progress toward that goal has to be illusory or fleeting. Unless a show really puts a surprise twist on it, like Battlestar Galactica has done.

 

[Trent Roman]

Maybe I'm just more easily satisfied. But during the series I could project a mental map and say to myself 'they began here, now they're here", and although it didn't have any storyline impact since all points were still in the middle of nowhere, it felt like progress to me.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Saga]

shifting back to Mirror Image #3...anyone know what the release date is? i can't seem to find it anywhere and the IDW site is a few years outdated (they still list Angel: After The Fall #1 as being a new solitation)

 

[Therin of Andor]

shifting back to Mirror Image #3...anyone know what the release date is?

http://popshoponline.com/stores/new_index.asp?StoreID=3&Cat=Comics&Week=200839&ItemCode=JUL084082

Ships 9/24/2008

 

[Saga]

shifting back to Mirror Image #3...anyone know what the release date is?

http://popshoponline.com/stores/new_index.asp?StoreID=3&Cat=Comics&Week=200839&ItemCode=JUL084082

Ships 9/24/2008

Thanks!

 

[Allyn Gibson]

shifting back to Mirror Image #3...anyone know what the release date is?

It should be in comic shops this Wednesday, along with Byrne's Romulans: The Hollow Crown.