Ideology

[Moriarty]

Don't know if this has come up yet. I see that there have been discussions about TNG in relation to Marxism. But more generally, does TNG have an ideology, political or otherwise?

It definitely has a secular attitude and an atheistic (or at least agnostic) outlook. But does it have any stronger political outlook.

I myself would say that it is mildly socialist, of the non-Marxist variety, in it's promotion of equality and valuing of selfless duty to your fellow man (couldn't think of a suitable replacement for "man", I realise it's incorrectness in this context, but I'm sure you get what I mean).

Also, Starfleet seems to be liberal in it's perusal of peaceful co-relations between all beings out there in space.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm open to correction.

What do you think?

 

[Anwar]

The "TNG is communist" stuff is just what Anti-Modern Trekkers say because they want every last thing about Trek to be exactly like the 20th Century and they don't like that it's not.

 

[JarodRussell]

It has nothing to do with Marxism or any form of Communism out there. In Star Trek, Earth, and most Federation planets, are utopic paradises. Why? First they have so much energy (from matter/antimatter reactions, fusion energy, wind energy, but I guess mostly clean and highly efficient solar energy) and live in an automated world that production of goods costs next to nothing anymore. And then there was a consciousness shift after they were at the edge of destruction after WWIII and encountered alien species: the majority of humans decided they finally need to work to better themselves and others, and not for financial wealth. And while they do that, they live in a democratically governed world, a fair mix between the best of the United States, European Union and the United Nations.

Picard called that "we've grown out of our state of infancy". And while that is utopic, it has nothing to do with Marxism or Communism.

The atheistic aspect is also reasonable. First, they learned they are not alone in the universe. If there was a God, then it was a God not only for humans, but for everybody. Or it was an alien. They encountered many, many aliens that posed as Gods for less developed species. And that's gotta shake your world view a fair bit.

 

[Triskelion]

I would disagree that it's secular (though the producers certainly come across as atheistic). I think it's more of a non-issue that is kept personal and not part of the public conversation -

- just as race is still a part of people's lives, but you don't hear people saying, "give it to the Indian guy". Because they've managed to learn how to focus the public conversation on meritocratic topics.

(Excepting of course for alien races like Ferengi; but those are wooden character values for story purposes, not exactly culturally relativistic as we tend to be more of these days. Many Trek races were just that - races, and not much more. That's TV sci fi).

This is not to say religions don't exist. I would say quite the opposite - that 24th century "respect for cultures" isn't just lip service. It is genuinely inclusive. You don't hear people saying "Greetings from Starfleet. Have you been washed in the blood of the lamb?" just as you don't hear people saying "Lock phasers on those vile intolerant stereotyping baby-hating buddhists".

And I'm sorry but I don't remember seeing any statues of Marx or Hitler, either. Sorry, I just don't think oppression or organized crime are status quo in the Federation.

The Maquis were not a result of imperialism. They were a response to the Fed's diplomatic inaction. And then there's the Prime Directive. None of this is lip service - but a hard and strong commitment to ideals.

Instead, in Trek, you have lines like Picard's "that all this may mean something". You have Bajoran religion as an integral part of their culture - something living, and informing, and soul-replenishing, much more than robotic mythology worship and book-thumping.

There are many references to religions, alien, obscure, and even conventional. For example, they played a Christian hymn at Spock's funeral. We don't know the extent of characters' religiosity, because that wasn't the story being told. And even if they were largely secular or atheistic - that's still very different than saying those values were standard throughout the galaxy.

(People who think religion is just blind superstition completely miss the point of religion - and that goes for the religious and the atheistic).

Quite the opposite. Star Trek espouses diversity. It doesn't pigeonhole it or broadcast it. I guess people just have learned how to have a bit of class, and decided to focus on more intellectual pursuits.

People also probably finally "got" religion - as a cultural and intellectual pursuit designed for the betterment of sentient societies and individuals, to find their valid places in totality, as an integral part of a bigger picture - and not a weapon of walled-off ego and valueless inhumanity. (Ahem - taking God's name in vain).

We still have a ways to go on that score.

 

[Holdfast]

It has nothing to do with Marxism or any form of Communism out there. In Star Trek, Earth, and most Federation planets, are utopic paradises. Why? First they have so much energy (from matter/antimatter reactions, fusion energy, wind energy, but I guess mostly clean and highly efficient solar energy) and live in an automated world that production of goods costs next to nothing anymore.

Exactly. It's not communism that underpins the economy in TNG, it's capitalism - the cost of production has fallen so low that the amount of capital required to live well has fallen significantly compared to today so many more of the population can live well.

Now, if energy is virtually free, as it appears to be, a lot of the cost base of production disappears, so prices of goods can be cut, so there would be a massive crunch on labour costs as a result. Potentially, this could have resulted in a damaging deflationary spiral, but if you have an expansionary colonisation policy, you can mitigate that and create economic growth by continually opening new markets.

In fact, in this kind of environment, "seeking out new worlds and new civilisations" isn't so much scientific exploration as it is an absolute economic necessity to prevent collapse at home. Earth can be the cultural and social paradise it is in TNG because it lives off the aggressive economic growth provided by its colonies and the heavy diplomatic expansion of the Federation, backed by the muscle of Starfleet. It's more akin to the way the early British Empire could grow, than to Marx!

The in-story difference of course is that unlike the British Empire, which tipped over into requiring military expansion to maintain the expansionary cycle, Starfleet basically stays in the background. An in-story explanation is that when you have the whole galaxy to expand into, conflict is naturally less since plenty of expansionary opportunities remain elsewhere.

 

[Moriarty]

I guess that while the show might not have an overtly atheistic message, Starfleet in being non-religious is secular, and tolerance of other cultures and trying to understand them is certainly promoted.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here, I didn't mean that it has a Marxist message, I specifically stated so, and there also seems to be some confusion here between Marxism and other (less extremist) forms of socialism.

I don't think that everything about TNG should represent the 20th Century but I do think that every peice of writing has an ideology.

Perhaps ideology is the wrong word, philosophy would be better I'd say.
What do you think is the philosophy of TNG?

 

[Hober Mallow]

I don't think that everything about TNG should represent the 20th Century but I do think that every peice of writing has an ideology.

There's no specific ideology. Idealism, certainly, but not ideology. In a world where you can replicate almost anything you want or need, neither the rules of capitalism nor of socialism apply any longer.

I will say I think TNG celebrates cooperation over individualism, but TNG's humans freely choose to work together for a better future, which isn't socialism.

It has nothing to do with Marxism or any form of Communism out there. In Star Trek, Earth, and most Federation planets, are utopic paradises.

Incidentally, "utopia" actually means "no place."