Idea for making the Borg scary again

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by O'Dib, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. O'Dib

    O'Dib Commodore Commodore

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    They have been defeated by humans so many times, one wonders how adaptable they actually are. It would be really creepy if they actually changed strategy and tried something like diplomacy. Three dimensional villains were always the best. Think of this, they establish an embassy on Earth, and offer free, non-individualism-killing implants, or collective consciousness tryouts. It'd be really freaky if people actually started joining them of their own volition. Ooh, and that gives us shades of gray, gotta love them! Dunno where I'd go with that story, but it'd be a fresh new take on the worn out cyberzombies.
     
  2. Jefferies

    Jefferies Captain Captain

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    I don't see how anyone would want to join the Borg. Even if they toned down their militarism and contempt for other societies and tried to "manipulate" their image, I cannot see this happening. Maybe a few crazy wakkos would want to join but apart from that the collective is just too evil to ever redeem itself. They have been around for 1000s of years in which they have enslaved and destroyed 1000s of alien cultures, murdering trillions along the way. The Nazis appear as innocent puppies by comparison and who would want to join them nowadays, apart from hate-mongering scum?
     
  3. Kaziarl

    Kaziarl Commodore Commodore

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    But people do join the nazi's, or rather neo-nazi's I suppose, since they aren't quite the same. People still join the KKK. And its very unfortunate that most of them are hate-mongers and racists. But some of them join just because it gives them a sense of purpose and order. Its the same thing that draws people to cults.

    Now that might be interesting if the borg started a cult, I'm not sure it would catch on in the 24th century, but it would definately have the same draw as todays cults for the lost, young, youth who feel they have no purpose. Join the collective/cult, We'll make the decisions for you
     
  4. Jefferies

    Jefferies Captain Captain

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    Well the OP is talking about making the Borg "scary" again, i.e. making them a major threat again. Now, if just a few lost souls and psychopathic whack-jobs join up then its not going to become a tangible threat. If you look at the Neonazi and cult analogy this become quite clear. Yes people join the KKK and Scientology but its not on the scale of being a massive problem because most people have the sense to see these groups for what they are and chose not to be influenced by them. I'm not trying to say we should ignore these groups or give up on the people who happen to get caught up in them but its simply not on the level of say islamic terrorism or Iran's nuclear programme.
     
  5. Kaziarl

    Kaziarl Commodore Commodore

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    True, its not the same scale as a direct aggressor, but look how much commotion was cause by Heavens Gate when the comet came buy, or... I cant seem to think of the name right now, but there was one in oregon around the time I was born I think. Where the threat comes from in this case is much more subtle, and had Wako not happened like it did, or the guy in oregon been stopped, who knows how far it would have gone.

    As for the borg, they are essentially immortal. They've got plenty of time to corrupt the minds of the youth, who will eventually become the adults and the decision makers while corrupting even more youth behind them.
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I'm sick to death of the Borg. They might as well be Klingons or Romulans at this point, because they are the bad guys that can never win. They can pop up, create a ruckus, and then get sent packing at the end.

    To me, the biggest problem with the Borg is that you can't really unleash them to do their full potential because a full-scale invasion (hundreds if not thousands of Borg cubes) would mean the end of the Federation and likely the end of Star Trek. No more Starfleet, no more Earth, with the few survivors of the Human race scattered to the ends of the Galaxy hoping that the Borg don't ever find them to finish the job. Don't know about you, but if I wanted to watch that, I'd watch Battlestar Galactica.

    To me, the Borg worked the best when our heroes didn't know how to stop them, nor could they even really talk to them--the Borg simply told our heroes what they were going to do, and they did it, and there wasn't anything our heroes could do to stop them short of divine intervention.
     
  7. NCC-1701-B

    NCC-1701-B Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    With the borg, people seem to forget about all of the other ships the borg destroy in these big battles. Just because the enterprise or voyager wins all of the time people say they arent a good enemy. But seriously, if voyager or the enterprise lost, there would be no tv show.
     
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  8. Kaziarl

    Kaziarl Commodore Commodore

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    You're right. Dramatically, the Hero ship always wins. Realistically I'd put my money on on a fleet of Borg ships over the Voyager.

    The problem is people want an enemy that is unstoppable. You do that, you'll get maybe one episode, or a movie, and I'm not to sure people will want to see it. The hero ship has to be able to win. Sure, you can draw it out over several years like they did with the Dominion, beat the hero's within an inch of defeat, and then they manage to prevail. But even that gets tiring if you take it to far.
     
  9. Elim Garak

    Elim Garak Captain Captain

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    Just take them back to their roots, the original vision for them was they would have a parallel to international terrorism. Have them employ some of those tactics. Instead of depending on their intimidating reputation, have them carry out some secretive attacks, for example, launching a Genesis Torpedo type weapon on some world without ANY warning, let a climate of fear and panic build up, then they move in. It doesn't make sense for them to make the "Bond villain blunder," they should be be like evil Vulcans... Vulcan logic taken to the coldest, dispassionate extreme possible. In Star Wars, the Sith eventually realized the folly of open warfare with the Jedi and started striking from the shadows. That's a lesson the Borg could stand to learn.

    They can keep the Queen, but don't make make her a Bond villain in alien makeup. They could have it so that each hive has its own Queen.
     
  10. Kaziarl

    Kaziarl Commodore Commodore

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    Speaking of that, I actually had a couple ideas for a fan fic I'm thinking of writing. If you're willing I wouldn't mind discussing it, throw a few ideas back and forth?
     
  11. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would prefer they dump the queen and a leader to begin with.
    Introduction of a 'leader' concept mellowed the Borg in the first place (starting with Descent where Lore gave the severed drones a purpose).

    They can easily do away with this silly concept and explain it to the viewers as an experiment.

    The Borg wanted to test humanity on a large scale, and predicted a possibility of how the events might pan out (Voyager 'Endgame' events) and now they are done playing these games.

    The Borg realized that when given the chance, humanity even being less advanced can sufficiently adapt to pose a threat, but ultimately will fall into a false sense of complacency when experiencing victory and be vulnerable again.

    To that end, the Borg were busy rebuilding themselves and keeping on the low ground.
    When ready, they will continue on as before ... testing the Federation and it's technology by sending a cube intermediately, because every time a single cube was barely stopped (and Voyager only got out of those sticky situations due to extraordinary circumstances).

    The Borg would also be advancing and change their tactics a bit when it comes to technology and development and would still pose a huge threat when a single ship gets close to the Federation.
     
  12. Kaziarl

    Kaziarl Commodore Commodore

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    One thing I always thought they missed out on with the borg was the biological traits of the different races. I know the borg felt that the flesh was inefficient, but consider if for example they adapted and modified the telepathic abilities of races they had assimilated. They could twist that ability into something that could crush the minds of new races they came up against, force them to surrender, etc. What else might they be able to use?
     
  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know.
    That was something I wondered myself.
    Then again, for the Borg to use this on a regular basis would mean 'instant victory' and unless you are dealing with a race that is capable of resisting mental attacks such as those ... it would be a short lived experience dealt with in a minute, and not over the course of the entire episode or a movie.

    Realistically, there is a solution to this ... so let's say a lot of the race in question succumbs to this psionic attack ... there are bound to be numerous individuals with the ability to resist it and retreat while coming up with defences that might work against the Collective in the future.
    Short-term wise, it would mean a defeat, long-term though, not really.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can see the temptation of nanite injection for medical purposes, the promise of perfect health. And I've been hearing for years the idea of brain implants to increase you memory capacity or give you direct access to the internet.

    That's how the borg would get their foot in the door, maybe in the future there are still people who think the "government" is always wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  15. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As I have said many times before, the only way to redeem the Borg at this point is to take a few dimensions AWAY from them and reduce them back to the ineffable demolition machines they were depicted to be in Q Who: they simply show up unannounced, strip everything of value, and then vanish. I've suggested before it would work best if you presented them as sort of like the reavers from Firefly: starships encounter them in deep space from time to time, sometimes without incident, but every once in a while a Borg cube will "get hungry" and head for a nearby station or vessel, rip it to pieces, dissect the survivors for spare organs and tissues (no assimilating; the Borg breed their own, everyone else in the universe just raw materials to them). They'd become the great sharks of the galaxy: unstoppable, unpredictable, and completely incapable of anything resembling communication. You can't outrun them, you can't destroy them; even if you damage them, they regenerate and keep coming. All you can really do is pray you have nothing they want, because if you do, you're screwed.
     
  16. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Commodore

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    I'd like to see the Borg assimilate somedinosour like creatures orbuild giant robot like the size of the sentinals from X-Men and have them use those as an initial attack then come in with the foot soldiers. I'd also like to see the original species tjat the Borg was before they became the Borg with some implants, but not fully Borg
     
  17. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

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    In the Destiny trilogy, a fleet of over seven thousand Borg cubes invades Federation space with the new mantra, You will be annihilated. And they came damn close to succeeding in that claim, even up against transphasic torpedoes.

    I won't spoil the books, but I can't really imagine a more suitable Borg storyline given the way they're regarded by fandom these days.
     
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  18. Tom Riley

    Tom Riley Commodore Commodore

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    This. :borg:

    I thought this was pretty much the ultimate Borg storyline. Even with the books leading up to it they had some good Borg storylines that made the Borg a definite threat to the Federation.
     
  19. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I know about Destiny (read all the books leading up to it too), and to me, that was the ultimate Borg story as well. No playing around with a single Borg ship and no slinking back into the shadows afterward. This was the Borg at their most raw and most deadly--no talking with them, no reasoning with them, and no half-doing it with them. It was the Borg versus the Federation and only one side would survive in the end. Winner take all.

    I just can't see something like that ever being done in a Trek TV series, because it made Wolf 359 look like a simply a friendly greeting...
    [​IMG]:borg:
     
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  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg are dead. They should be since First Contact. They should be twice since Endgame. Always resurrecting them is F***ING LAME.