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Iconic space operas

Science Fiction is a big umbrella that encompasses everything from rigorous Hard SF to swashbuckling space operas and planetary romances, with all sort of permutations in-between. Verne and Heinlein are SF, but so are Bradbury and Edgar Rice Burroughs. Traditionally, "space opera" referred specifically to pulpy, action-oriented space adventures, as opposed to more "serious" science fiction. The term derives from "horse opera," which was a jokey, somewhat dismissive label for westerns. So a "space opera" would be a space-western, basically. The kind of thing you read in PLANET STORIES back in the pulp era: all ray-guns and rockets and Bug-Eyed Monsters.

Nowadays, people sometimes use the term "space opera" to refer to any spaceship based series, but that's probably too broad a usage (he says pedantically).
 
BSG and Dune are the first two that come to mind for me as somebody already mentioned B5. Also, Andromeda even though it really declined after a solid start. And I almost forgot Farscape and Stargate (although I'm not sure if that really counts).
If Farscape does not count for Space Opera, I do not know what does!
 
Firefly is Blake's Seven for goodness sakes right down to the story for Serenity and I can hardly tell the difference between Forbidden Planet and Star Trek other than teleportation and the iconic design of the Enterprise. Is space opera obsolete other than the two big titans of Trek and Wars and not like a McDoogles opening up next to a McDonalds also selling hamburgers.

Depressing, but very possible.

I wonder if it were possible to get a new space opera going other than "Star ____", picking up enough viewers to keep the saga going.

And "Babylon 5", and yet I keep returning to B7 and Firefly a bit more frequently and I know B5 is good stuff...
 
I can hardly tell the difference between Forbidden Planet and Star Trek other than teleportation and the iconic design of the Enterprise.

To be fair, TOS also had female officers and a multi-racial, multi-national crew, unlike FORBIDDEN PLANET which (typical of its era) had only clean-cut white guys and one lovely ingenue. That was a huge difference, especially back in 1966.
 
You know as far as intellectual property is concerned, I see a lot of X-Men in TOS esp. in WNMHGB. In one of the animated eps. called The Ambergris Element they even said, 'Mutation is the key to survival'. I was shocked and the Cage was very similar to the Matrix if you really look at it. Once again expression and execution is the key difference. And, not for nothing, Greg, but I've seen you're gravity weapon in Weight of Worlds somewhere else in another franchise though let me be quick to say I loved the book and recommend it highly.
 
Depressing, but very possible.

I wonder if it were possible to get a new space opera going other than "Star ____", picking up enough viewers to keep the saga going.

And "Babylon 5", and yet I keep returning to B7 and Firefly a bit more frequently and I know B5 is good stuff...
What exactly do you meany by keep the saga going? Are we just talking multiple seasons and sequels, or something more along the lines of Trek and Wars with tons of spin-offs, tie-ins, merchandise and stuff going on for decades?
Because we've already gotten two seasons of The Expanse, with a third on the way, and I believe The Orville is already confirmed to be coming back for a second season.
We've also gotten 2 Guardians of the Galaxy movies.
 
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You know as far as intellectual property is concerned, I see a lot of X-Men in TOS esp. in WNMHGB. In one of the animated eps. called The Ambergris Element they even said, 'Mutation is the key to survival'. I was shocked and the Cage was very similar to the Matrix if you really look at it. Once again expression and execution is the key difference. And, not for nothing, Greg, but I've seen you're gravity weapon in Weight of Worlds somewhere else in another franchise though let me be quick to say I loved the book and recommend it highly.

Well, the idea of mutated humans with superhuman, often psychic abilities was a staple of SF long before The X-Men. See Odd John by Olaf Stapledon, Slan by A.E. Van Vogt, More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon, The Chrysalids by John Wyndham, etc. Heck, there was even a 1964 OUTER LIMITS episode titled "The Mutant" about a bald-headed telepathic mutant. I imagine that both THE X-MEN comics and STAR TREK were drawing on the same common sources rather than mimicking each other.

As you correctly note, intellectual property is not about ideas but execution. Nobody can own an idea like "telepathic aliens" and there are any number of different kinds of stories that could be based on the concept. It's also perfectly possible for various individuals to come up with the same idea independently, perhaps by drawing on the same sources. "Hmm, suppose you put aliens and mind-readers together . . . ?"

Glad you liked WEIGHT OF WORLDS, btw.
 
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Depressing, but very possible.

I wonder if it were possible to get a new space opera going other than "Star ____", picking up enough viewers to keep the saga going.

And "Babylon 5", and yet I keep returning to B7 and Firefly a bit more frequently and I know B5 is good stuff...

To be fair, TOS also had female officers and a multi-racial, multi-national crew, unlike FORBIDDEN PLANET which (typical of its era) had only clean-cut white guys and one lovely ingenue. That was a huge difference, especially back in 1966.

To the first quote, yes and yes. I totally think a good cerebral sci fi space opera is totally possible that's still accessable to a large audience if done right.
And casting all whites is hardly a proprietary difference when it comes to an intellectual property.
And Gene wasn't the first to teleport or go ftl since that was part of the definition of space opera to begin with. Was he? I.e., there's nothing totally original about Star Trek, is there?
 
^ That response took a really long time! :)

It may be confined to this solar system but I think The Expanse must tick a lot of the boxes one would think of for "epic space opera".
 
If you want space opera in print, I recommend David Weber's Honor Harrington books. Epic In scope with space battles, politics, and telepathic cats with six legs. What more could you want?
 
As noted, BUCK ROGERS first hit the big screen way back in 1939, although it was a novel and hugely popular comic strip before then. Not aware of any Lensmen movies, but you were asking for examples from literature as well.

The Barsoom books kinda straddle heroic fantasy and space opera. There's lots of swashbuckling and swordplay (as in STAR WARS), but also anti-gravity airships, mad scientists, aliens, "thinking machiines," and so on. Heck, John Carter even ends up traveling into space to fight "the Skeleton Men of Jupiter" in the final book.

You can draw a straight line from Burroughs to STAR WARS. Heck, the Princess of Alderaan even ends up dressed like Dejah Thoris eventually. :)
Heck, A Princess of Mars is why the heroes keep running into space princesses. Whether actual princesses like Leia or effectively princesses like Delenn (member of the Grey council- they even gave her a tiara for all intents and purposes)
 
Some of these posts are months old, but since the OP is still active on the forum, I've got a few things to say.

Is space opera obsolete other than the two big titans of Trek and Wars...
No, of course it isn't.

Ben Bova is still publishing new novels (with a co-writer or possibly a ghostwriter at this point due to his age, but that's just speculation).

C.J. Cherryh is releasing a new novel in her Alliance-Union series next year - and most of that series is very definitely space opera (not sure how to categorize Forty Thousand in Gehenna, Cyteen, and Regenesis since they take place on planets and space travel is just mentioned - albeit in very important contexts such as how to effectively conduct elections and commerce over interstellar distances without FTL communications).

I guess I've always assumed that "space opera" was supposed to be kinda pulpy. That's part of the appeal.
There are different qualities of space opera, though. I've read the Dumarest of Terra series twice over the years (minus the last novel, which has such an absurdly high price on it on Amazon, that I'll never be able to afford it unless I get lucky at a garage sale and nobody knows what they're letting go for a loonie or two). It's formulaic, there are particular scenes that are obligatory in every novel, somebody usually dies a gruesome death of some sort, there's always a female character who's attracted to Dumarest (sometimes it's mutual), Dumarest runs into the local branch of the Cyclan (the ongoing villains of the series), and so on. I wouldn't call it high quality, and two local librarian acquaintances who helped introduce me to SF conventions scolded me for reading them. But I don't care - they're mental junk food that's enjoyable every few years, and unlike the thousand-page novels I'm reading these days, I can romp through a Dumarest novel in a day or maybe a day and a half. I once timed how long it took to do the 31 books I have, and came in just under a month.

Constrast that with Ben Bova's Grand Tour series... there's a guy on one of my gaming forums whose RL job is literally a rocket scientist. He helps build this stuff, and I asked him how plausible Bova's science was, for exploring the solar system. He said it was reasonably plausible, or at least most of it. A bit more research and a lot more money, and we could actually do some of that stuff, like asteroid mining or research bases on the Moon and Mars - orbital colonies, too.

Want great female characters in a space opera setting? I can't recall how many times I've re-read C.J. Cherryh's novel Rimrunners. Bet Yeager is one hell of an independent, no-nonsense character.

And of course one of my favorite space opera series is the Hulzein Saga, by F.M. Busby. It's one of the more credible attempts to incorporate relativity into creating a setting where news, commerce, and military maneuvers have to take into account that while the ship crew might experience 8 months, 10-15 years might pass on-planet.

Did Frank Herbert come up with folding space? This is spicier than the two titans for sure. Excuse me but I hope it's a huge tentpole franchise and one that can make it's way to tv like I think it can 'cause it seems to be very contained eventually branching out hopefully into the next sprawling Titan.
Whatever is done about Dune, please let it have nothing to do with Kevin J. Anderson, Brian Herbert, or Byron Merritt (FH's grandson who is basically a nice guy but thinks the nuDune crap is actually good), or any of their nuDune garbage.

It may be confined to this solar system but I think The Expanse must tick a lot of the boxes one would think of for "epic space opera".
There's nothing wrong with being confined to this solar system. Most of Bova's novels are, and there's a British SF show that it seems nobody knows about but me (since I've never found any other people to discuss it with), called Space Island One. It's about an international group of research scientists who are based on a space station in Earth orbit.
 
I don't know whether to despise you or commend you for your bravery in being on the Internet with all its cat pics and videos.

Wild cats urinate in my garden on my grass. I love animals, I have a aquarium, a dog that I adore.
But I don't like cats, and I even prefer mosquitos over cats ;)
So I think I prefer that you commend me for my honesty and bravery. ;)
 
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