Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
I'm not sure that has anything to do with TOS, though.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with TOS, though.
Iceland filming location for construction site of Enterprise?
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Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Since the OP's inquiry seemed to be primarily concerned with the question of why a location in Iceland would have been used for that particular shot:
and since he seems to be speaking from a position informed by knowledge of planetary sciences, let's confine this thread to discussion of that subject. The fictional Iowa construction site and the meaning of the words on the dedication plaque have already been hashed over repeatedly and at great length elsewhere and do not need to be covered here again.
Edit:
Since the OP's inquiry seemed to be primarily concerned with the question of why a location in Iceland would have been used for that particular shot:
It is entirely possible that I am wrong, but since when does Iowa lack any vegetation for as far as the eye can see? In its natural state it is prairie land, in its current state its farmland and planted forest. What they may be going for is a place in Iowa where all the farmland, grass, prairie, and trees were cut down to construct Starships. That doesn't seem very environmentally friendly for the 23rd century.
It is also possible they are using a shot of somewhere else to represent Iowa. I know the glacier they used to film the ice scenes was very close to the wind-swept black plains of Iceland. Those plains drain the melt water from the glaciers. Well, no big deal, just thought it was interesting.
and since he seems to be speaking from a position informed by knowledge of planetary sciences, let's confine this thread to discussion of that subject. The fictional Iowa construction site and the meaning of the words on the dedication plaque have already been hashed over repeatedly and at great length elsewhere and do not need to be covered here again.
Edit:
Please, no more of that. It's neither necessary nor desired here.
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Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
I'm sorry, it's beat a dead horse time, but the reference on the plaque could be the ship's registry. Or, are we to believe that Liberia is a major ship builder in the world these days because so many ships have it painted on their sterns?
Look, by ON SCREEN CANON, which is the ONLY canon recognized by Paramount, there's been NO REFERENCE to where the Enterprise was built. Period. The plaque? See the above explanation. It fits quite nicely.
Even things in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP are not canon. And, while it states quite clearly in The Making of Star Trek that Kirk was born in Iowa, that wasn't OFFICIAL until TVH.
As it is, I'm prejudiced. I'm from Iowa. And, I'm eating this up.
I'm sorry, it's beat a dead horse time, but the reference on the plaque could be the ship's registry. Or, are we to believe that Liberia is a major ship builder in the world these days because so many ships have it painted on their sterns?
Look, by ON SCREEN CANON, which is the ONLY canon recognized by Paramount, there's been NO REFERENCE to where the Enterprise was built. Period. The plaque? See the above explanation. It fits quite nicely.
Even things in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP are not canon. And, while it states quite clearly in The Making of Star Trek that Kirk was born in Iowa, that wasn't OFFICIAL until TVH.
As it is, I'm prejudiced. I'm from Iowa. And, I'm eating this up.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
1). "Our vessel was constructed in space and has never felt the solidity of the surface of a planet." - Star Trek Writer & Director's Guide (Bible) by Gene Roddenberry (April 17, 1967).
2). "The unit components were built at the Star Fleet Division of what is still called the San Francisco Navy Yards, and the vessel was assembled in space. The Enterprise is not designed to enter the atmosphere of a planet and never lands on a planet surface." - The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield & Gene Roddenberry (Del Rey, 1968).
3). "56 EXT. ENTERPRISE - FULL VIEW - VARIOUS ANGLES
as the pod approaches it. We no longer need it in tiny perspective as the great starship dwarfs everything in sight. However, the dry-dock filigree design still seems fragilely beautiful against the gracefully curved bulk of the Enterprise inside of it.
In these CLOSER SHOTS we can now SEE small automated welding devices moving along the dry-dock girders. A welding device stops, seals metal surfaces together with a brief, bright orange-white flare, then moves along again.
In other areas of the metal-lace structure, supplies and equipment are being moved for loading onto the ship.
And here and there CLOSER SHOTS MAY REVEAL TINY SPACE SUIT FIGURES OF ORBITAL TECHNICIANS working on the hull, the engine pods, the struts.
The pod moves closer to the starship, toward where we SEE an AIR LOCK the size of the pod." - Star Trek: The Motion Picture Draft Screenplay by Gene Roddenberry (Paramount, 1978).
4). "Behind them was the breathtaking panorama of the old orbital drydock of San Francisco - but that installation was rapidly receding in size now, and Earth's huge dark sphere began to dominate the center image as it showed a last sliver of atmosphere halo from the now-hidden sun." - Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Gene Roddenberry (Simon & Schuster, 1979).
5). "Hoch über der Erde, in einer Umlaufbahn von 1680 Kilometer Höhe und mit einer Bahnneigung von 46 Grad, umkreiste das riesige Raumdock den blauen Planeten einmal in zwei Stunden. Dreimal täglich geriet es in Sicht des Starfleet-Hauptquartiers von San Francisco." (*) - Star Trek: Der Film by Gene Roddenberry, as translated/expanded into German by ST:TMP's technical advisor, Jesco von Puttkamer (Moewig Verlag, 1980).
I don't know about anybody else, but I think that these extracts clearly demonstrate that Gene Roddenberry intended the NCC-1701 to be built (and refitted) in the San Francisco Orbital Yards.
TGT
* (Crappy) English translation: "High over the Earth, in an orbit of 1680 kilometers altitude and an inclination of 46 degrees, the giant spacedock orbited the blue planet once every two hours. Three times a day it passed within view of Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco."
1). "Our vessel was constructed in space and has never felt the solidity of the surface of a planet." - Star Trek Writer & Director's Guide (Bible) by Gene Roddenberry (April 17, 1967).
2). "The unit components were built at the Star Fleet Division of what is still called the San Francisco Navy Yards, and the vessel was assembled in space. The Enterprise is not designed to enter the atmosphere of a planet and never lands on a planet surface." - The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield & Gene Roddenberry (Del Rey, 1968).
3). "56 EXT. ENTERPRISE - FULL VIEW - VARIOUS ANGLES
as the pod approaches it. We no longer need it in tiny perspective as the great starship dwarfs everything in sight. However, the dry-dock filigree design still seems fragilely beautiful against the gracefully curved bulk of the Enterprise inside of it.
In these CLOSER SHOTS we can now SEE small automated welding devices moving along the dry-dock girders. A welding device stops, seals metal surfaces together with a brief, bright orange-white flare, then moves along again.
In other areas of the metal-lace structure, supplies and equipment are being moved for loading onto the ship.
And here and there CLOSER SHOTS MAY REVEAL TINY SPACE SUIT FIGURES OF ORBITAL TECHNICIANS working on the hull, the engine pods, the struts.
The pod moves closer to the starship, toward where we SEE an AIR LOCK the size of the pod." - Star Trek: The Motion Picture Draft Screenplay by Gene Roddenberry (Paramount, 1978).
4). "Behind them was the breathtaking panorama of the old orbital drydock of San Francisco - but that installation was rapidly receding in size now, and Earth's huge dark sphere began to dominate the center image as it showed a last sliver of atmosphere halo from the now-hidden sun." - Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Gene Roddenberry (Simon & Schuster, 1979).
5). "Hoch über der Erde, in einer Umlaufbahn von 1680 Kilometer Höhe und mit einer Bahnneigung von 46 Grad, umkreiste das riesige Raumdock den blauen Planeten einmal in zwei Stunden. Dreimal täglich geriet es in Sicht des Starfleet-Hauptquartiers von San Francisco." (*) - Star Trek: Der Film by Gene Roddenberry, as translated/expanded into German by ST:TMP's technical advisor, Jesco von Puttkamer (Moewig Verlag, 1980).
I don't know about anybody else, but I think that these extracts clearly demonstrate that Gene Roddenberry intended the NCC-1701 to be built (and refitted) in the San Francisco Orbital Yards.
TGT
* (Crappy) English translation: "High over the Earth, in an orbit of 1680 kilometers altitude and an inclination of 46 degrees, the giant spacedock orbited the blue planet once every two hours. Three times a day it passed within view of Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco."
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Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Good examples, TGT.
I think that's the problem - many of use have assumed one thing to be continuity based on background info for thirty years, and now, when we were told we'd be seeing it, it's being directly contradicted.
Good examples, TGT.
I think that's the problem - many of use have assumed one thing to be continuity based on background info for thirty years, and now, when we were told we'd be seeing it, it's being directly contradicted.
It's an altered timeline anyway, so it's not a 'real' prequel anyway, and the purist in me, while I find the idea a bit silly, doesn't really care. I assume that the timeline skullduggery will at the least allow for a sufficient extrapolation of why it's being built in Iowa.
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
It's that J.J. Abrams was shown a mockup of a ship being worked on dirtside and thought the idea was so cool he insisted on it being in the film. "Good reason" would be a matter of taste, I guess.
It's that J.J. Abrams was shown a mockup of a ship being worked on dirtside and thought the idea was so cool he insisted on it being in the film. "Good reason" would be a matter of taste, I guess.
There's no way that scene was shot in Iceland. Like most Hollywood productions, it was almost certainly shot somewhere in California that the producers thought looked sufficiently like Iowa. I went to college in Iowa, and the terrain looks more or less like that, depending on the year. Iowa is the most altered landscape in North America, so it isn't unusual to have plowed fields as far as the eye can see. If it is early in the growing season, or if you are looking at soybean fields, sometimes there is almost nothing but short rows of crops within eyesight. If you think those scenes look like Iceland's basaltic sandur plains...
http://www.nateko.lu.se/Elibrary/LeRPG/3/Fig 4.4 UH-97.jpg
... then perhaps you need to watch the high-def version to see that it looks quite different.
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Agreed. By the time we saw the drydock at the end of Nemesis, I practically thought, "Not again..."
Agreed. By the time we saw the drydock at the end of Nemesis, I practically thought, "Not again..."
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Sure you did. You just sat through 90 odd minutes of mostly rehashed crap enhanced by next to nothing, but seeing a crummy CG depiction of a solid notion that had already been done superbly 23 years earlier is what had you thinking, "not again."
It's a SPACE movie. It also has SOME slight connection to science, hence the tenuous 'science fiction' label. So using something that makes just a little bit of sense gets from you a 'not again.'
But letting the open unfinished ship in this new thing get rained on and rusty in a wheatfield makes SO much more sense, right? Plus it looks like Kirk is parked in front of a big billboard, the thing looks so flat and painterly. HELL of an improvement. uh-huh
EDIT ADDON: I just GOTTA find an email for Von Puttkamer. He probably doesn't want to speak ill of this pic's advisor, but I figure he has got to be as bugged by most of this as Probert is by the 'design' of the ship.
Sure you did. You just sat through 90 odd minutes of mostly rehashed crap enhanced by next to nothing, but seeing a crummy CG depiction of a solid notion that had already been done superbly 23 years earlier is what had you thinking, "not again."
It's a SPACE movie. It also has SOME slight connection to science, hence the tenuous 'science fiction' label. So using something that makes just a little bit of sense gets from you a 'not again.'
But letting the open unfinished ship in this new thing get rained on and rusty in a wheatfield makes SO much more sense, right? Plus it looks like Kirk is parked in front of a big billboard, the thing looks so flat and painterly. HELL of an improvement. uh-huh
EDIT ADDON: I just GOTTA find an email for Von Puttkamer. He probably doesn't want to speak ill of this pic's advisor, but I figure he has got to be as bugged by most of this as Probert is by the 'design' of the ship.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Hardly. JvP enjoyed working with Gene Roddenberry on Phase II and ST:TMP according to a brief e-mail exchange I had with the gentleman back in 2005, but that was a vanishingly small part of his professional life from over three decades in the past. These days he is semi-retired from NASA and spends most of his time in Germany giving public lectures on the exploration and colonization of Mars (translate here). The Franchise is (rightly) not even a blip on his radar.
TGT
Hardly. JvP enjoyed working with Gene Roddenberry on Phase II and ST:TMP according to a brief e-mail exchange I had with the gentleman back in 2005, but that was a vanishingly small part of his professional life from over three decades in the past. These days he is semi-retired from NASA and spends most of his time in Germany giving public lectures on the exploration and colonization of Mars (translate here). The Franchise is (rightly) not even a blip on his radar.
TGT
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Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
And yet by the time the film takes place, for Starfleet to use the propulsion systems they do, they obviously have mastered anti grav technology, so it doesn't matter whether the ship is being built on a planet or in space.
And the idea that the ship is getting rusty sitting out in a weathered environment is reaching. These ships are designed to fly millions of times the speed of light, and survive any spacial distortions or hostile forces it can encounter. It can survive a little rain. Not one person here, in all the bitching and moaning I have seen about this concept of building the ship on earth, has made any statement, that discounts that it could not, or would not be done with the technology available to Starfleet in the 23rd Century.
And I agree that the visual impact of seeing the ship being built on Earth, with a sense of atmosphere and scale to how huge this thing actually is, is much larger then seeing another drydock, especially when TMP did the drydock concept about as perfect as can be. Who wants to see the same thing twice?
And yet by the time the film takes place, for Starfleet to use the propulsion systems they do, they obviously have mastered anti grav technology, so it doesn't matter whether the ship is being built on a planet or in space.
And the idea that the ship is getting rusty sitting out in a weathered environment is reaching. These ships are designed to fly millions of times the speed of light, and survive any spacial distortions or hostile forces it can encounter. It can survive a little rain. Not one person here, in all the bitching and moaning I have seen about this concept of building the ship on earth, has made any statement, that discounts that it could not, or would not be done with the technology available to Starfleet in the 23rd Century.
And I agree that the visual impact of seeing the ship being built on Earth, with a sense of atmosphere and scale to how huge this thing actually is, is much larger then seeing another drydock, especially when TMP did the drydock concept about as perfect as can be. Who wants to see the same thing twice?
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
^ Neither side managed to convince the other the last ten times we discussed this subject. J.J. Abrams is obviously giving you people what you want, and to be perfectly honest I envy you your victory.
TGT
^ Neither side managed to convince the other the last ten times we discussed this subject. J.J. Abrams is obviously giving you people what you want, and to be perfectly honest I envy you your victory.
TGT
Re: Construction site of Enterprise, Star Trek XI
Haha, well it's not a victory, it's just something different had to be done. TMP did the drydock thing as well as can be executed. It was beautiful. People going into this movie can't see the big reveal of the Enterprise, and have it be the exact same thing that we have seen before. I think the earthbound shots are a new and interesting twist on the concept.
IMHO of course.
^ Neither side managed to convince the other the last ten times we discussed this subject. J.J. Abrams is obviously giving you people what you want, and to be perfectly honest I envy you your victory.
TGT
Haha, well it's not a victory, it's just something different had to be done. TMP did the drydock thing as well as can be executed. It was beautiful. People going into this movie can't see the big reveal of the Enterprise, and have it be the exact same thing that we have seen before. I think the earthbound shots are a new and interesting twist on the concept.
IMHO of course.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Are you absolutely certain of that? William Shatner's ST:TFF had a caption stating "Yosemite National Park" during the camping sequence.
TGT
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