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Ian Levine's "Downtime" re-shoots -- Whatever happened?

I almost bumped this thread instead of starting my "Wilderness Years" thread.

The only way the Sylvester McCoy scenes improve Downtime is that they make the original low-budget straight-to-video production look like a Hollywood masterpiece by comparison. All they do is look bad and provide a play-by-play and color commentary for the movie itself. They double the length of the movie without adding anything of substance to the story.
 
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I got about ten minutes into "The Eight Doctors." I got past the five minute long monologue by Flavia, then it segued into some instrumental surf rock with a bunch of heads pasted onto Totters Lane backgrounds, and that was enough for me.
 
I almost bumped this thread instead of starting my wilderness years thread.

The only way the Sylvester McCoy scenes improve Downtime is that they make the original low budget straight to video production look like a Hollywood masterpiece. All they do is look bad and provide a play-by-play for the movie itself. They double the length of the movie without adding anything of substance to the story.
Its shocking. Its like Tales of the TARDIS, but on a shoestring budget and no talent behind camera. At all.
I got about ten minutes into "The Eight Doctors." I got past the five minute long monologue by Flavia, then it segued into some instrumental surf rock with a bunch of heads pasted onto Totters Lane backgrounds, and that was enough for me.
I literally almost gave up on that "montage" Like, what was the point of that musical segue? I didn't understand what was happening until the Doctor deduced the situation, thus this interlude was entirely pointless.

Beyond that extra note for the pretty akwardly directed scenes involving Samantha and, watch out - a young Russell Crow cutout! Did Levine really think he was gonna get away with this?!
 
I'm watching The Eight Doctors at the moment. Never read the book (or any of them, though the ones with the Fiction Paradox seem intriguing) and Eight's my favorite so I thought I'd start there.

Oh dear. Four episodes in, and one of them didn't feature the Eighth Doctor at all, instead it was like watching a Third Doctor lost story or something!

Twelve episodes for The Eight Doctors?!? Twelve?!?

IIRC, in the novel the two most substantial adventures the eighth Doctor has are with the third and sixth Doctors, so, yeah, "a Third Doctor lost story" sounds about right. The sixth Doctor story is an expansion on Trial of a Time Lord, with the eighth Doctor acting as the sixth Doctor's lawyer.
I'm actually interested in The Eight Doctors. Not because I care for the work of Ian Levine, but because I've wanted to read the novel ever since I first heard about it, but probably never will because it is out of print and very expensive used.

ETA-- thanks for the warning about the monologue and the musical bit.
 
I'm actually interested in The Eight Doctors. Not because I care for the work of Ian Levine, but because I've wanted to read the novel ever since I first heard about it, but probably never will because it is out of print and very expensive used.

ETA-- thanks for the warning about the monologue and the musical bit.
Yeah, those are obvious detractors. The monologue simply goes on for way too long.

But, if I have to say one positive thing, is that the guy who does Hartnell's voice in this also does the Fifth Doctor's and he's simply splendid. He's actually better as Five than Peter Davison is (in terms of sounding like his younger self from way back when), though admittedly he's not as nuanced or finessed in his delivery as Davison was.
 
Well, yes, it's on video. And there's a Missing Adventure novelization (which has an epilogue with the third Doctor -- he meets Victoria by chance and they have a conversation, only she has no idea who she's talking to).

If Levine had any sense, he (since he holds the video rights to Downtime) should have found a way to release it on DVD in its natural form five or six years ago in the wake of "School Reunion" and The Sarah Jane Adventures. Downtime, cheaply made as it was, has some good marketing hooks.

But he wants it to be "proper" Doctor Who. In this case, I don't know why he bothers.
Responding to a 10-year-old comment here. The "marking hooks" you mentioned have only increased with time, with the introduction of Kate into the main show and the growing popularity of her character. This is the only place where you can see the Brigadier and Kate interact. This is the only place you can see Sarah Jane and Kate interact. The two Queens of Whoville-- together!

As I recently said elsewhere, I think it serves as a great origin story for Kate. A first step into her father's world. A perfect bridge episode inbetween the old era and the new.

I did not know that Levine owned the video rights. While researching Downtime recently (and the timing of the release of this footage is just mind-boggling to me), I read that RTD wanted to use a clip of Sarah Jane and the Brigadier from the movie in the SJA story Enemy of the Bane, but the "rights holder" said "no". I wondered why at the time, but if it was just Levine being Levine, then that makes perfect sense.

Downtime is now of course available, thankfully in it's Doctor-less form, on YouTube on a non-monetized channel dedicated to the movie and its production. I wonder if that is Levine or Reeltime behind that channel.

 
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And frankly, its much better in its Doctor-less form. Remarkable to say this, but its true. Levine just doesn't understand how drama is made, at least in an artistic sense (cause otherwise, he has experience to spare).
 
This may be damning with faint phrase, but I really like what he did with "Dimensions in Time". :lol:

Seriously, it's a cleaner cut than any other version I've seen online. Utilizing footage of Hartnell and Troughton to depict the capture of the first two Doctors and incorporating the Tom Baker footage into the actual narrative rather than at the very beginning, as well as some new footage* (including Daleks!) all work in its favor.

Part two doesn't fare as well. The scene in the helicopter between the Brigadier and Three definitely does not work. It is, in fact, quite bad. That sounds nothing like Jon Pertwee (neither does the Tom Baker "soundalike" with a few lines of dialogue at the very end). However, it's forgiven for the extra audio coming from Nicholas Courtney. There seems to be new footage with Kate O'Mara as well?

The added special effects were definitely an improvement.

*Some of the new footage seems to have been culled from behind the scenes and promotional footage. The Jon Pertwee narration of the "previously on" section in part two obviously comes from an interview about the project.

All in all, I have to give him credit for this one.
 
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This may be damning with faint phrase, but I really like what he did with "Dimensions in Time". :lol:

Seriously, it's a cleaner cut than any other version I've seen online. Utilizing footage of Hartnell and Troughton to depict the capture of the first two Doctors and incorporating the Tom Baker footage into the actual narrative rather than at the very beginning, as well as some new footage* (including Daleks!) all work in its favor.

Weird -- I tried it on your recommendation, and I thought it was atrociously edited, with dreadful pacing, clumsy cuts, and insipid droning music replacing the original score. I mean, the part where he says "Interception in five seconds" is re-edited so that there are nine seconds between "five" and "three." I could see no possible reason to rearrange the dialogue that way; it just makes it more confusing. It's startlingly incompetent. I gave up after about six and a half minutes -- I couldn't handle another moment of that repetitive music.

If this is typical of Levine's work, I'm content to skip the rest of it.
 
He's a record producer who has claimed Big Finish is rubbish fan-fiction, when his projects are actually exactly that, but without the finesse, the care and attention in capable sound design, all of which are lacking in his projects. Really, its a major surprise how fine Shada turned out to be, but I've not seen his unedited version yet.

As for Dimensions in Time... Put it this way: Levine's version is better in terms of the story having some room to breathe and not actually feeling hurried or flummoxed. But, it is atrociously put together. I can't believe he thinks this is the best multi-Doctor story out there.
 
I can't believe he thinks this is the best multi-Doctor story out there.
I can. The man is a potently arrogant, self-absorbed egotist. Of course he thinks his works are the best.

He has let his fame over legitimately rescuing and recovering certain missing episodes go straight to his head and therefore thinks that makes him the most important fan ever. That mindset has led him to genuinely believing that everything he does now is for the greatest good of the franchise.

The only surprising thing is that, while everyone who knows who he is and what he does, they still pay attention to him.

Stop giving him oxygen, y'all.
 
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As for Dimensions in Time... Put it this way: Levine's version is better in terms of the story having some room to breathe and not actually feeling hurried or flummoxed. But, it is atrociously put together.
Exactly. I like certain ideas that he put into his version, but the editing and execution is strictly amateur night, as with all of his works. At the end of the day, however, you cannot deny the man's passion (obsession?).
The only surprising thing is that while everyone who knows who he is and what he does, they still pays attention to him.

Stop giving him oxygen, y'all.

I agree with this. I did have some legitimate curiosity that I wanted to satisfy, and I have done so. After sleeping on it, I even find myself less interested in his version of The Eight Doctors than I was yesterday, despite my long-time interest in the story.
 
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I finished The Eight Doctors.

This is the worst thing Terrance Dicks ever wrote. Bar none. I'll review it quickly on two terms: Writing, and presentation.

Writing: I was always aware Dicks hated the TV Movie... but not this much. I didn't know that he ditched the TV Movie console room for the conventional one from the 60's/70's, a pretty bizzare thing to do in its own right. But to basically neuter the Eighth Doctor in his first adventure with this nonsensical fan-service thing is outrageous. Imagine being excited about this new Doctor after a story that didn't really showcase him for half of it, and instead getting retreads and sequels to OldWho stories you're not given any refresh to remember what they're about. In particular, the longest sections involve a sequel section to The Sea Devils (with a dash of The Daemons thrown in for good measure), a sequel to State of Decay, a sequel to The Five Doctors (!!!), and a very long sequel to The Ultimate Foe with a Faux Sixth Doctor to boot! Now, you might think the Doctor-to-Doctor interactions would save it, but they don't. The only multi-Doctor scene with any charm in between the First and the Eighth, the rest feel penfunctionary and unsatisfying to the max. Oh, and SAMANTHA JONES, NEW COMPANION is as obligatory as you would expect. The plot is shit though, so even that novelty (the intro of a new companion) just feels like an afterthought. Really, if the Doctor has to regain his memories by meeting his incarnations, all he has to do is visit his last one, who has all the memories of the previous Doctors. Its so stupid but you're not supposed to notice. Really, Terrance?

Really, there's very few things to like in this. One of them, though, is the Master ingesting the Deathworm Morphant, explaining why and how was able to transform into a snake-like entity after being exploded by the Daleks. The movie never explains this and its an enormous error in my mind (among many) but that one at least has some ambition and competent characters in it, not to mention a story that moved forward, compared to this. If Terrance Dicks was commisioned to give this for TV, I highly doubt his ethics would have allowed for this to be produced. THAT BEING SAID, I guess I enjoyed the Third Doctor lost story with Delgado's Master (cause that's how it feels like) and even the FIfth Doctor bit was sorta decent, in their own rights.

Presentation: I'm watching Shit Levine's Gallifrey at the moment, and among other things, its sound design is somewhat competent and lots of talented actors are involved in the voice acting. Here, though... I dunno what to say. The sound design (because that's what one would count on, as the images are, as I'll mention later, far too bad to ignite any imagination at all) is amateur hour, at best. It feels like this was put together at the last minute. Supremely badly paced and put together, and I say this kindly. And I understand the book is long, but that's no excuse to make it into 12 episodes. There's whole stretches of episodes where the Eighth Doctor doesn't even appear! That's criminally insane, isn't this supposed to be Eight's big post-regeneration story? Instead, its The Movie 2.0 where he just wanders into old Who episodes for actually no good reason. The material simply doesn't support such a structure, and the story is not a leisury pace kinda thing. Its a really, really long story because Shit Levine is obviously a fan of long, boring, padded-out stories. And Shit Levine is using recons as a way to produce the story, but... I barely understand what is happening, if anything. There's a musical section in the first episode that, actually, does nothing. At first, I thought it was an editing error, or the uploaded simply removed the voices and put music in...no, that's how its actually edited by Levine's team. Did this man actually really believe this thing could be made available by the BBC for PURCHASE?! How can anyone actually think thsi could have happened?

On the plus, there are a few good impersonations (as none of the Doctors are returning Doctors, not even poor Sylv), chiefly the First Doctor, the Fourth, and especially the Fifth, who sounds exactly like Peter Davision from the '80's. Its a remarkable impersonation, extremely impressive (I know he does the First too, and I think Eight, but his Fifth is good). And whoever is doing Ainley is pretty good, too. But, that's about it, really.

Since this exists, I'm more than inclined to call this the Worst Eighth Doctor story out there. And its a shame because his era didn't start with a bang either (it ended on that same night, too). If this was produced for TV, it would have to basically be rewritten from scratch. Its just bad, and a stain in Terrance Dicks' tremendous and important legacy.
 
Really, there's very few things to like in this. One of them, though, is the Master ingesting the Deathworm Morphant, explaining why and how was able to transform into a snake-like entity after being exploded by the Daleks. The movie never explains this and its an enormous error in my mind (among many)

I always figured it was just a consequence of the power the Master got from the Source of Traken. Which would also retroactively explain how he survived being vaporized in "Planet of Fire."
 
I always figured it was just a consequence of the power the Master got from the Source of Traken. Which would also retroactively explain how he survived being vaporized in "Planet of Fire."
Yeah, but I imagined, that power lasted until he lost the Traken body. As soon as he'd returned to his decayed form, it was fair game.

Though, the Shit Levine version of the Eight Doctors shows the Ainley Master taking the morphant, when in the book it was someone else (either the decayed Master or the legendary Gordon Tipple one?).

Ah, well. Basically, I don't mind that addition at all.
 
Yeah, but I imagined, that power lasted until he lost the Traken body. As soon as he'd returned to his decayed form, it was fair game.

Except there's no canonical indication that he ever returned to that body. Presumably the only reason Big Finish postulated such a thing was as a justification for casting Geoffrey Beevers as the Master -- understandable since he was the only surviving Master from the classic series, but it's a hell of a reach. I mean, I know "Keeper" ended with the "Decayed Master" body merging inside Tremas's form, but I always figured the old body was discarded or merged with Tremas in some irreversible way (I don't want to think about the specifics too much or I get squeamish). The idea that it remained in some sort of stasis inside Tremas and could be separated out years or decades later seems to contradict the premise that it was deteriorated and on the brink of death, which was the whole reason he needed a new body in the first place.

Also, of course, the Gordon Tipple Master did not look like the Decayed Master, but like the conventional black-goateed gentleman. The Eight Doctors claimed it was the Tremas Master (or at least the TARDIS Wiki seems to say so), while the movie novelization claimed it was the "Basil Rathbone" Master from David McIntee's First Frontier, who regenerated from the Tremas Master. Though apparently BF's just-completed The Last Day says it was the Beevers Master right after giving himself a new regeneration cycle.
 
I finished The Eight Doctors.

This is the worst thing Terrance Dicks ever wrote. Bar none. I'll review it quickly on two terms: Writing, and presentation.

Writing: I was always aware Dicks hated the TV Movie... but not this much. I didn't know that he ditched the TV Movie console room for the conventional one from the 60's/70's, a pretty bizzare thing to do in its own right. But to basically neuter the Eighth Doctor in his first adventure with this nonsensical fan-service thing is outrageous. Imagine being excited about this new Doctor after a story that didn't really showcase him for half of it, and instead getting retreads and sequels to OldWho stories you're not given any refresh to remember what they're about. In particular, the longest sections involve a sequel section to The Sea Devils (with a dash of The Daemons thrown in for good measure), a sequel to State of Decay, a sequel to The Five Doctors (!!!), and a very long sequel to The Ultimate Foe with a Faux Sixth Doctor to boot! Now, you might think the Doctor-to-Doctor interactions would save it, but they don't. The only multi-Doctor scene with any charm in between the First and the Eighth, the rest feel penfunctionary and unsatisfying to the max. Oh, and SAMANTHA JONES, NEW COMPANION is as obligatory as you would expect. The plot is shit though, so even that novelty (the intro of a new companion) just feels like an afterthought. Really, if the Doctor has to regain his memories by meeting his incarnations, all he has to do is visit his last one, who has all the memories of the previous Doctors. Its so stupid but you're not supposed to notice. Really, Terrance?

Really, there's very few things to like in this. One of them, though, is the Master ingesting the Deathworm Morphant, explaining why and how was able to transform into a snake-like entity after being exploded by the Daleks. The movie never explains this and its an enormous error in my mind (among many) but that one at least has some ambition and competent characters in it, not to mention a story that moved forward, compared to this. If Terrance Dicks was commisioned to give this for TV, I highly doubt his ethics would have allowed for this to be produced. THAT BEING SAID, I guess I enjoyed the Third Doctor lost story with Delgado's Master (cause that's how it feels like) and even the FIfth Doctor bit was sorta decent, in their own rights.

Presentation: I'm watching Shit Levine's Gallifrey at the moment, and among other things, its sound design is somewhat competent and lots of talented actors are involved in the voice acting. Here, though... I dunno what to say. The sound design (because that's what one would count on, as the images are, as I'll mention later, far too bad to ignite any imagination at all) is amateur hour, at best. It feels like this was put together at the last minute. Supremely badly paced and put together, and I say this kindly. And I understand the book is long, but that's no excuse to make it into 12 episodes. There's whole stretches of episodes where the Eighth Doctor doesn't even appear! That's criminally insane, isn't this supposed to be Eight's big post-regeneration story? Instead, its The Movie 2.0 where he just wanders into old Who episodes for actually no good reason. The material simply doesn't support such a structure, and the story is not a leisury pace kinda thing. Its a really, really long story because Shit Levine is obviously a fan of long, boring, padded-out stories. And Shit Levine is using recons as a way to produce the story, but... I barely understand what is happening, if anything. There's a musical section in the first episode that, actually, does nothing. At first, I thought it was an editing error, or the uploaded simply removed the voices and put music in...no, that's how its actually edited by Levine's team. Did this man actually really believe this thing could be made available by the BBC for PURCHASE?! How can anyone actually think thsi could have happened?

On the plus, there are a few good impersonations (as none of the Doctors are returning Doctors, not even poor Sylv), chiefly the First Doctor, the Fourth, and especially the Fifth, who sounds exactly like Peter Davision from the '80's. Its a remarkable impersonation, extremely impressive (I know he does the First too, and I think Eight, but his Fifth is good). And whoever is doing Ainley is pretty good, too. But, that's about it, really.

Since this exists, I'm more than inclined to call this the Worst Eighth Doctor story out there. And its a shame because his era didn't start with a bang either (it ended on that same night, too). If this was produced for TV, it would have to basically be rewritten from scratch. Its just bad, and a stain in Terrance Dicks' tremendous and important legacy.
Wow. Bullet dodged. :crazy:
 
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Watching Shit Levine's Destiny of the Doctors, part 1. OK. How do I put this. I know!

What should've happened: Take the Ainley scenes and better-played cutscenes. Start the episode on the Matrix with Ainley Master declaring his control. Cut to the Time Lords going apeshit, and they then decide to forcibly recall the Doctor. The Doctor's angry, and they beg him to come up with a plan. The Doctor then does come up with a plan, in exchange for total impunity for Susan leaving. The plan is to send a creature inside the Matrix to deal with the Master. cue cutscenes.

What did happened: Pay poor Sylv an amount of money to film all episodes in a single day (apparently, I've read on twitter he was paid for two days, and both days were for this and Downtime), standing around while reading cue cards. Not only that, but in-story the Doctor is brought back and he's basically reacting to the plan the Time Lords have had in mind, just spouting continuity references and only renames the Kaldor robot in the process. That's the most he contributes in the first episode I've seen, otherwise, he just stands up in the same place being told by the Time Lords what the Master is doing inside the Matrix (with no equipment at hand to tell them that, btw, they just know). Oh, and there's LOTS of clips here, including most astonishingly, and actually bizzarely the Sarah Jane Adventures episode with the Brigadier!!!! Shit Levine used the clip of Sarah Jane and Brig meeting up again to preface the Brigadier helping the Doctor's Kaldor from inside the Matrix.... that's so fantastically idiotic, I don't even know what to say further.
 
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