I Want to Go Skiiing on Mars!

[Australis]

We can build a much bigger ship in stages in NEO or on the Moon rather than launching from Earth. Don't build it on Earth.

(Ooo, and suddenly it morphs into a STXI thread! )

That's the necessary advantage orbit/Moon-built ship offeres. We're limited by the lifting capacity of rockets, not such an issue up there.

 

[Venardhi]

What is the benefit of a large ship at this point in our space program?

 

[MetalPants]

I'd like to see people on Mars in my lifetime-- and I'm sure I will, one way or another

Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ A long life?

What is the benefit of a large ship at this point in our space program?

If we're going to faraway places like Mars, or the Asteroids, or the moons of Jupiter, we need very large vehicles that people can live in for many months or years at a time. Much bigger than the current Space Station. It would have to be spinnable (or at least parts of it would be) and it would need some kind of an arboretum. It would need supplies and spare parts and backups (although some of that could be-- and probably should be-- taken care of with uncrewed vehicles on parallel or intercept courses). But in any case, it would really need to be huge.

 

[Australis]

^ What he said.

Shame we can't lure Squiggy in her, he might have some inside gen.

 

[Venardhi]

^^ A long life?

What is the benefit of a large ship at this point in our space program?

If we're going to faraway places like Mars, or the Asteroids, or the moons of Jupiter, we need very large vehicles that people can live in for many months or years at a time. Much bigger than the current Space Station. It would have to be spinnable (or at least parts of it would be) and it would need some kind of an arboretum. It would need supplies and spare parts and backups (although some of that could be-- and probably should be-- taken care of with uncrewed vehicles on parallel or intercept courses). But in any case, it would really need to be huge.

We NEED these things, or they would be nice to have? There is a notable difference. Why would it NEED an arboretum? You can have the entire ship spin if you want without making it any bigger. Once they get to mars you can have environmental modules there sent previously and already producing oxygen and fuel for the return trip. Supplies and spare parts and backups are logically going to be built into any plans. You can have the food and other supplies for the stay on mars sent with the environmental and atmo/fuel modules, as well as rovers, inflatable greenhouses, etc. Sending 10 small payloads is more logical (and more affordable) than sending 1 big one(which would need to be sent up into space in 10 peices, with a another couple for the people putting it together) anyways. All the actual transport module needs is to be acceptably habitable for the trip, and don't try to tell me that the people chosen =TO GO TO FUCKING MARS= are going to throw a hissy fit about not having flowers or private bunks.

Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. Thinking big is only going to slow us down at this point.

 

[Australis]

Thinking big: less chance of failure, from either the stresses on the ship or the crew, physical and mental.

I remember some SF film, might have been '2010' (hmm, next year) where there were 2 spinning rings, in either direction, which is much easier than having the ship spinning.

You need room for the crew to stretch out and get away from each other. Think about a long journey in a car when your a kid. It soon gets boring and, in some cases, sticky. Now think about a 2 to 3 year mission to Mars. You'll really want a place to get away to. Obviously you couldn't live in an Apollo capsule or even a shuttle size ship for anything more than a week, no matter how good the facilities. A couple of guys have lived in ISS for a year, but I don't think they'd recommend it. Ask yourself, you're going somewhere and it's going to take a year just to get there. The view out your window, once you're away from Earth, will be spectacularly dull (unless you do a hell of a lot of astronomy). An arboretum give you fresh air, rather than that recycled stuff, plus a bit of green to ease the eye - these things are more important than you might think.

 

[Venardhi]

Based on the current progress of the US space program and other programs worldwide, you're talking about us all being dead before anyone sets foot on Mars. I do not find that acceptable.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Everything you say is true, for the most part, but you're still talking about Human beings on a trip that will take a total of several years, there and back; plus the stay. Think of McMurdo. They get to go outside, harsh as it is, and they still have an arboretum of sorts; a hothouse, anyway. You'll also need to transport something like that to Mars if you're planning on a long stay or permanent presence.

And the ship can't be too small and still be spun for artificial gravity; the angle can't be too small or it's disorienting for the astronauts. I'm not sure what the minimum size would be, though.

 

[Australis]

Based on the current progress of the US space program and other programs worldwide, you're talking about us all being dead before anyone sets foot on Mars. I do not find that acceptable.

I keep saying! The Technological Singularity is coming!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

In short, technology has been on a steady upward curve, constantly increasing over the last 200 years. The anticipation is that, around 2025 (+/- 5) the curve stops curving and goes straight up. Everything will arrive: regrowing human bosy parts, a better form of energy that can begin to replace oil, a better foods growing and distribution all over the world, a practical and effective way to use telomerase, which will extend life significantly (say, double), an even faster internet, computers that are smarter than people, serious nanotechnology. I also hope for (but don't anticipate) artificial gravity, warp drive and replicator technology (and hoping the smarter computers can use up their smarts finding them). If you want to know what I'd like the world to look like in a hundred years, read any of Iain M Banks' Culture novels - I'd rather live in the Culture than the Federation.

And all these goodies might only be 15 years away. I know, it seems wild-eyed crazy, but if you look at the advances in medicine alone, over, say 200 years, then the advances in the last 20, you'll be quite surprised.

 

[Venardhi]

That is being a bit too optimistic for my tastes. Why wait for this theoretical technological revolution when we can do it now?

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, even doing it "now" means it's still decades away, especially taking into account inevitable delays. We could be back on the Moon in five years and to Mars in ten, but it won't happen; the funding and political will aren't there.

 

[john titor]

Get your ass to mars


I had to say it.