I Want Some Old TNG!

[Nardpuncher]

I was looking at the KRAD post-Destiny book today and it made me think how I miss TNG with the Enterprise D and Data and Riker and everyone else together. ( sorry if that sounded like I don't approve of the new book...I haven't read it yet)

I know it's a lot of nostalgia on my behalf that i want books set during the 3rd or 4th season so much...I was 15 or so at the time.
Would anyone else like to see some books set comfortably in the middle of the 7 year mission we know and love from the TV show?

 

[DimesDan]

I want gets nothing.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I was looking at the KRAD post-Destiny book today and it made me think how I miss TNG with the Enterprise D and Data and Riker and everyone else together. ( sorry if that sounded like I don't approve of the new book...I haven't read it yet)

I know it's a lot of nostalgia on my behalf that i want books set during the 3rd or 4th season so much...I was 15 or so at the time.
Would anyone else like to see some books set comfortably in the middle of the 7 year mission we know and love from the TV show?

To be honest, the 7-year period is so crowded anyway it would be somewhat unbelievable to cram in any more adventures. Not that it couldn't be done; I recall Christopher Bennett mentioning how he prefers to link his mid-series stories into existing episodes to make it more believable. Still, it's a stretch...but that's just me, because I take continuity issues seriously. Anyway, more mid-series books would add yet another series slot to the schedule, and I'm not willing to have less DS9-relaunch, Titan, etc. But that's just me....

 

[Nardpuncher]

I know what you mean, but Kirk's original 5 year mission seems to have about 10 years jammed into it.
Believability be damned!

 

[seigezunt]

I take continuity issues seriously.

And may God have mercy on your soul...

 

[seigezunt]

I know what you mean, but Kirk's original 5 year mission seems to have about 10 years jammed into it.
Believability be damned!

Alternate timelines, baby.

 

[Greg Cox]

Have you read the THE SKY'S THE LIMIT anthology? That's all TNG all the time . . . .

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Would anyone else like to see some books set comfortably in the middle of the 7 year mission we know and love from the TV show?

The important question is this. Did books like Hollow Men, the String Theory trilogy, and Troublesome Minds (which is, honestly, too early to make a determination) sell demonstrably better than books set outside the broadcast confines of their respective television series? Or did they see lower sales than books set post-finales or with original-to-novels characters and concepts?

Publishers are going to follow the money. If mid-series books see a sales increase, it's financially sensible to commission more. If the post-finale books sell better, then that's where the commissions are going to be.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I take continuity issues seriously.

And may God have mercy on your soul...

I was asking for it, typing that, wasn't I.....

 

[JD]

I'll be honest here, at this point I really don't have interst in alot of new series based books. While a new one every now and then is a nice change of pace, I'm still alot more intersted in book only and relaunch series. Not that I'm saying I'm saying I won't get them if some come out, in fact I already got Troublsome Minds, and I plan on reading it as soon as I finish Open Secrets and Treason.

 

[RandyS]

I was looking at the KRAD post-Destiny book today and it made me think how I miss TNG with the Enterprise D and Data and Riker and everyone else together. ( sorry if that sounded like I don't approve of the new book...I haven't read it yet)

I know it's a lot of nostalgia on my behalf that i want books set during the 3rd or 4th season so much...I was 15 or so at the time.
Would anyone else like to see some books set comfortably in the middle of the 7 year mission we know and love from the TV show?

Yes I would. And, in spite of the imbecilic, moronic, idiotic move in not letting B-4 evolve into Data the way Nemesis intended (yes, I understand the reasons why the writers went the way they did, but I still think it's stupid), I also want to see the present TNG storyline continue.

Personally, I think there should be a balance. Novels set in the series timeframe, and in the present. TOS occasionally does it, why can't TNG?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I was looking at the KRAD post-Destiny book today and it made me think how I miss TNG with the Enterprise D and Data and Riker and everyone else together. ( sorry if that sounded like I don't approve of the new book...I haven't read it yet)

I know it's a lot of nostalgia on my behalf that i want books set during the 3rd or 4th season so much...I was 15 or so at the time.
Would anyone else like to see some books set comfortably in the middle of the 7 year mission we know and love from the TV show?

Yes I would. And, in spite of the imbecilic, moronic, idiotic move in not letting B-4 evolve into Data the way Nemesis intended (yes, I understand the reasons why the writers went the way they did, but I still think it's stupid), I also want to see the present TNG storyline continue.

Personally, I think there should be a balance. Novels set in the series timeframe, and in the present. TOS occasionally does it, why can't TNG?

I think it would be stupid for B-4 to "evolve" into Data. B-4 has Data's memories, not his katra. Memories alone aren't personality. Data is dead, and all that's left is his memories inside an artifical mind too unsophisticated to make use of them.

 

[Christopher]

Yes I would. And, in spite of the imbecilic, moronic, idiotic move in not letting B-4 evolve into Data the way Nemesis intended (yes, I understand the reasons why the writers went the way they did, but I still think it's stupid), I also want to see the present TNG storyline continue.

There's a misconception there about the intent of Nemesis. Brent Spiner wanted to kill off Data because he's too old to keep playing an immortal android. It was the intent that NEM should be Spiner's last appearance as Data or any Soong android. However, in Hollywood, bets are always hedged, since nobody likes to completely close a door that could prove profitable later on. So a small back-door opening, a hint that Data's memories might still be present in B-4, was included to give them options on the off chance that a) the film did well enough to warrant another sequel and b) the studio was willing to offer Spiner enough bags full of money to convince him to return again (and maybe use digital techniques to make him look younger).

It's the same as with Janeway's death in the books. The intent was for the death to be final, but a small loose end was included just in case future circumstances (such as a future movie or TV show depicting a live Janeway) required revising that intent.

 

[Trent Roman]

There's a misconception there about the intent of Nemesis. Brent Spiner wanted to kill off Data because he's too old to keep playing an immortal android. It was the intent that NEM should be Spiner's last appearance as Data or any Soong android. However, in Hollywood, bets are always hedged, since nobody likes to completely close a door that could prove profitable later on. So a small back-door opening, a hint that Data's memories might still be present in B-4, was included to give them options on the off chance that a) the film did well enough to warrant another sequel and b) the studio was willing to offer Spiner enough bags full of money to convince him to return again (and maybe use digital techniques to make him look younger).

How does any of that make RandyS's comments a misconception? B4 was the setup; if another movie were made, that's how Data would have come back. NEM telegraphed this quite clearly.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Deranged Nasat]

There's a misconception there about the intent of Nemesis. Brent Spiner wanted to kill off Data because he's too old to keep playing an immortal android. It was the intent that NEM should be Spiner's last appearance as Data or any Soong android. However, in Hollywood, bets are always hedged, since nobody likes to completely close a door that could prove profitable later on. So a small back-door opening, a hint that Data's memories might still be present in B-4, was included to give them options on the off chance that a) the film did well enough to warrant another sequel and b) the studio was willing to offer Spiner enough bags full of money to convince him to return again (and maybe use digital techniques to make him look younger).

How does any of that make RandyS's comments a misconception? B4 was the setup; if another movie were made, that's how Data would have come back. NEM telegraphed this quite clearly.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But surely it didn't. The end of the film simply told us that "Data's memory will live on...". It did it in a rather literal way. There was, as far as I interpreted, no indication that this ending intended to say "Data will return...in a hypothetical sequel (possibly)". Maybe I'm wrong though, i don't know much about the filmaker's intent, just saying how I interpreted it.

 

[Christopher]

My point is that RandyS's comments implied that the filmmakers intended for Data's death to be temporary and that the decision of the novelists to keep him dead was a "stupid" abandonment of the filmmakers' intent. That is not true. The filmmakers intended for Data to die. The whole reason for the film's climax is that Brent Spiner wanted to stop playing Data. So the novelists aren't "idiotically" betraying the filmmakers' intentions by failing to immediately resurrect Data. They're staying true to the filmmakers' intentions, business-mandated backdoors notwithstanding.

In fact, if there had been any realistic chance of a further movie resurrecting Data, then Pocket probably wouldn't have been allowed to resurrect Data even if the novelists and editors had wanted to, because that would've conflicted with the movie plans. If the books had turned B-4 into Data and then a new movie had been announced that would show B-4 turning into Data, the novels would've had to reverse B-4's Data-fication, just as DC's Trek comics set after The Search for Spock had to reverse Spock's mental recovery (and everything else that had happened in the interim) in order to lead into The Voyage Home. And that would've just been awkward.

 

[Trent Roman]

My point is that RandyS's comments implied that the filmmakers intended for Data's death to be temporary and that the decision of the novelists to keep him dead was a "stupid" abandonment of the filmmakers' intent. That is not true. The filmmakers intended for Data to die. The whole reason for the film's climax is that Brent Spiner wanted to stop playing Data. So the novelists aren't "idiotically" betraying the filmmakers' intentions by failing to immediately resurrect Data. They're staying true to the filmmakers' intentions, business-mandated backdoors notwithstanding.

Whether Data's death would be temporary or permanent depended on whether or not there would be another movie. Had Wrath of Khan tanked, Spock's death would have been permanent (outside a resurrection in other media); since another film was made, it was temporary. The setup with B4 was there in case they did decide to make another film after all, as a way to bring back Data--in other words, it was the tool for any continuation. And I think the point being made is that the novels disregarded the setup (for the time being, it should be said; B4 isn't going anywhere) when pursuing their own continuation, which doesn't go in the direction NEM foreshadowed. Novels are perfectly free to go in their own direction, of course, but it's perfectly natural that those who had put stock in that foreshadowing would be peeved to have their expectations frustrated, particularly when it comes to a popular character. As much as certain people found the Data-through-B4 angle of the Countdown mini trite, I don't see how they could have done otherwise when pursuing their particular continuation: it's what the film all but promised the audience was going to happen.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Deranged Nasat]

My point is that RandyS's comments implied that the filmmakers intended for Data's death to be temporary and that the decision of the novelists to keep him dead was a "stupid" abandonment of the filmmakers' intent. That is not true. The filmmakers intended for Data to die. The whole reason for the film's climax is that Brent Spiner wanted to stop playing Data. So the novelists aren't "idiotically" betraying the filmmakers' intentions by failing to immediately resurrect Data. They're staying true to the filmmakers' intentions, business-mandated backdoors notwithstanding.

Whether Data's death would be temporary or permanent depended on whether or not there would be another movie. Had Wrath of Khan tanked, Spock's death would have been permanent (outside a resurrection in other media); since another film was made, it was temporary. The setup with B4 was there in case they did decide to make another film after all, as a way to bring back Data--in other words, it was the tool for any continuation. And I think the point being made is that the novels disregarded the setup (for the time being, it should be said; B4 isn't going anywhere) when pursuing their own continuation, which doesn't go in the direction NEM foreshadowed. As much as certain people found the Data-through-B4 angle of the Countdown mini trite, I don't see how they could have done otherwise when pursuing their particular continuation: it's what the film all but promised the audience was going to happen.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But as I wrote in my last post, NO IT DIDN'T. "Nemesis" ended with a scene showing us that B-4 has successfully downloaded some of Data's recent memories. It's a sweet if somewhat literal manner of reminding us "Data will always live on IN MEMORY", not "Data's coming back!"

 

[neogothboy74]

^Agreed. I didn't think Data was coming back, and if I had I'd have felt more let down by the movie than I already was. Data's sacrifice was the only worthwhile thing in the movie as far as I was concerned... If they'd brought him back in the books I'd have been disappointed, and his return in 'Countdown' was the one thing I didn't like about the book. I was also aware that Brent Spiner's concerns over playing the character pretty much precluded him from appearing in later sequels without some major fiddling with the character, so I had every reason to believe that this was the last I was seeing of Data. I'm grateful that the books didn't go in the direction of resurrecting Data right away; just like in real life, I mourned him and then I moved on. If they decide to go that direction later to include the events of 'Countdown' I could live with that - it's just not something that I wanted in any way... And I'd hate to see yet another Trek's character's death cheapened by a lame resurrection plot.

As for old Next Generation stories, that wouldn't bother me, but like others have said, it would cut into the releases of the current books being released, and I don't want that, as I'm enjoying the current crop quite a lot.

 

[Christopher]

Whether Data's death would be temporary or permanent depended on whether or not there would be another movie.

You're missing my point. The issue is not whether the download of Data's memories into B-4 was intended to set up his possible return, which it obviously was. The issue is whether the filmmakers' intention was to actually bring Data back. My point is that, yes, B-4 would've provided a method for bringing Data back if they decided to do so, but that's not the same thing as saying that they intended to do that specific thing.

By analogy, if you buy fire insurance for your house, it doesn't mean you intend to set your house on fire and collect the insurance. If you need to rebuild your house after a fire, then that insurance policy would be the way you'd go about doing so, so clearly the intent of the policy is to allow you that option. But that's not the same as actually having the intent of burning and rebuilding your house. We're talking two different levels of intent here.

Also, I agree with the two previous posters -- it's oversimplistic, and overly metatextual, to assume that the only possible reading of B-4 remembering "Blue Skies" is "Hey, don't worry, Data will be back in the next movie." Obviously that possibility was a consideration on the part of the storytellers, but that doesn't mean it was their only consideration. It can just as easily be taken to indicate that Data has left a legacy -- that B-4 will never be Data (and the film made it very clear that B-4 was extremely crude and limited in comparison), but maybe the bit of Data's "soul" that was left in him would help give him the necessary spark to begin growing as an individual. Which is what Data wanted most for himself and for B-4 -- the ability to grow. To me, that's a more meaningful interpretation than "Here's an excuse to convince Spiner to come back for the next movie." Especially since there pretty clearly aren't going to be any more TNG movies now.