I Want a Doctor Who Hanukkah Special!

[The Great Meech]

And, for that matter, isn't it far more Christian to behave towards non-Christians with love by wishing them happiness, too?

Well, yes and no. I was agreeing with you up to that point.

I'm a Christian, and in Christmas time, I usually wish people "merry Christmas". I don't say that because I want to wash their brain and force them to adhere to my weird cult, I don't say that because I'm part of a conspiracy dedicated to negating the right of minorities to celebrate whatever they want to celebrate, I say that because it's Christmas and I want people to feel merry. If they get offended by that, honestly, it's their problem.

Well, okay, but wouldn't "Happy Holidays" perhaps show you want people to feel happy?

Not to exactly defend the removal of Christmas. I see no problem with saying "Happy holidays" or "Season's Greetings" since the holiday season has a ton of holidays in it. It's not because anyone will get offended--it's because it's a simple fact that not everyone celebrates Christmas and wishing everyone a Merry Christmas is like wishing everybody on Earth a happy birthday every day of the year--it's a really nice thought, but it's a little puzzling as to why you're doing it.

No, it's when weird shit like trying to call a Christmas tree a "Holiday tree" crops up. Then it's just stupid. No one sane is offended by a big pretty tree.

 

[Starkers]

Yes I like it, the Doctor could aid some heroic Redcoats against evil insurgents led by George Washington (who'd be some evil and disfigured lunatic, possibly in league with the Daleks)

Actually, the Doctor would be more likely to aid the heroic rebels against the oppressive Redcoats and the tyrannical British.

That's probably why there's not been a Revolutionary War episode. To be true to the Doctor's personality, the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

Come on now, at least a third of Americans were actually on our side anyway, besides the Doctor is bound to be anti-slavery.

Maybe the Doctor could have a Genesis of the Daleks moment over the creation of the United States (Just a joke ok!)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

That's probably why there's not been a Revolutionary War episode. To be true to the Doctor's personality, the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

Come on now, at least a third of Americans were actually on our side anyway, besides the Doctor is bound to be anti-slavery.

Are you thinking of the John Adams quote? Historical consensus now is that Loyalist strength was at most 20 percent, probably only about 15, with Loyalists concentrated more in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, and less concentrated in New England and the south.

Maybe the Doctor could have a Genesis of the Daleks moment over the creation of the United States (Just a joke ok!)

I know of one Doctor Who story involving the American Revolution -- John S. Drew's "The Revolutionaries" from Short Trips: The History of Christmas.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Well, okay, but wouldn't "Happy Holidays" perhaps show you want people to feel happy?

It would, but still, it is Christmas, whether people celebrate it or not. It is Christmas, and hope everyone is merry. It's simple enough. It means: "here's who I am, here's where I'm speaking from, and I wish you the best whoever you are".

In my opinion, cultural diversity can only be achieved when people acknowledge that there are different cultures. Trying to create some kind of culturally-neutral common ground is not only absurd, it's also a waste of time, if you ask me.

 

[David cgc]

I know of one Doctor Who story involving the American Revolution -- John S. Drew's "The Revolutionaries" from Short Trips: The History of Christmas.

There's also the deleted scene from "The Lazarus Experiment," where the Doctor mentions that he met Thomas Jefferson and kept his first draft of the Declaration of Independence as a souvenir. So, that had to happen sometime between the Cybermen two-parter (where he stole that tux from Pete's party (which, incidentally, begs the question of why they had a pair of black Chuck Taylors for the help)) and when he met Martha (because, apparently, she wasn't at the Revolution with him).

 

[The Badger]

[I know of one Doctor Who story involving the American Revolution -- John S. Drew's "The Revolutionaries" from Short Trips: The History of Christmas.

Don't forget his reference in "The Unquiet Dead" as to how he "pushed boxes at the Boston Tea Party".

 

[The]

In my opinion, cultural diversity can only be achieved when people acknowledge that there are different cultures. Trying to create some kind of culturally-neutral common ground is not only absurd, it's also a waste of time, if you ask me.

Spot-fucking-on!

 

[Starkers]

That's probably why there's not been a Revolutionary War episode. To be true to the Doctor's personality, the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

Come on now, at least a third of Americans were actually on our side anyway, besides the Doctor is bound to be anti-slavery.

Are you thinking of the John Adams quote? Historical consensus now is that Loyalist strength was at most 20 percent, probably only about 15, with Loyalists concentrated more in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, and less concentrated in New England and the south.

Well it's been a while since I read the article in question, I was sure it'd say a third...will have to dig it out now methinks (probably find its a quarter and we're both incorrect)

 

[captcalhoun]

there's been reports in the papers of Councils forbidding 'happy christmas' or 'merry christmas' from their cards or decorations, schools have also been reported to be banning carols and stuff.

and funnily enough, Muslims and others have said in the Mirror letters page when this comes up, they celebrate christmas as much as christians, but as a time for getting together and being happy, like thanksgiving...

 

[Sci]

Well, okay, but wouldn't "Happy Holidays" perhaps show you want people to feel happy?

It would, but still, it is Christmas, whether people celebrate it or not. It is Christmas, and hope everyone is merry. It's simple enough. It means: "here's who I am, here's where I'm speaking from, and I wish you the best whoever you are".

In my opinion, cultural diversity can only be achieved when people acknowledge that there are different cultures. Trying to create some kind of culturally-neutral common ground is not only absurd, it's also a waste of time, if you ask me.

You know, I'm inclined to say that someone who gets genuinely offended at being told "Merry Christmas" is being ungracious and ethnocentric. Just because someone wished you a Merry Christmas doesn't mean that they were trying to oppress you or impose their belief system on you; it's an honest gesture of goodwill and should be taken in that spirit.

By the same token, I think that someone who just assumes that everyone he meets observes Christmas rather than some other holiday is being just as ungracious and ethnocentric. "Happy Holidays" is a way of wishing people happiness without putting your holiday above theirs; if you wish them happiness, you ought to be wishing them happiness on their holiday, too, not just yours. There's no good reason to put elevate Christmas above, say, Channukah or Diwali in your desire to wish people well.

 

[wamdue]

Yes I like it, the Doctor could aid some heroic Redcoats against evil insurgents led by George Washington (who'd be some evil and disfigured lunatic, possibly in league with the Daleks)

Actually, the Doctor would be more likely to aid the heroic rebels against the oppressive Redcoats and the tyrannical British.

That's probably why there's not been a Revolutionary War episode. To be true to the Doctor's personality, the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

just to follow up on this, a quote from my "Time Travellers Almanac"

The Boston Tea Party

"I pushed boxes at the Boston Tea Party" - The Doctor to Rose Tyler (Cardiff 1869)

 

[Peacemaker]

The title of the episode should be "Dradel of Death"...it would, of course, be shown in 8 parts.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I don't know how it is in other countries but in Britain Christmas is just as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one. Non-Christians can and do celebrate Christmas, the Christmas of Santa Claus and his elves, getting together with family for a roast turkey dinner, sharing presents etc. It is silly to suggest it should be called anything other than Christmas because that's what it is. Yes there are other religious festivals in December but they're not secular. The National Holiday of Christmas is something that can be and is shared by the whole country.

Charlie

 

[AN_D_K]

There have been some attempts to make Christmas more politically-correct in Britain but a lot of the people that complain about making it that way are Non-Christians that don't mind.

Most non-christians I know are happy to have the days off, family around them and extra presents.

 

[Sci]

Yes I like it, the Doctor could aid some heroic Redcoats against evil insurgents led by George Washington (who'd be some evil and disfigured lunatic, possibly in league with the Daleks)

Actually, the Doctor would be more likely to aid the heroic rebels against the oppressive Redcoats and the tyrannical British.

That's probably why there's not been a Revolutionary War episode. To be true to the Doctor's personality, the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

To flog a dead horse...

I dunno about that. They could certainly do an episode where the Doctor maybe allies with an honorable Briton who loves King and Country but believes that the colonies' rights to self-governance are being violated and that they therefore have the right to revolt and establish independence in the course of fighting, say, an evil Redcoat general who has allied with evil alien monsters in his bid to re-conquer the colonies. That way, it could honor the decent parts of Britain's heritage whilst also acknowledging its darker parts.

Certainly the current show hasn't hesitated to condemn British imperialism in the past. "They're ours for the good of the British Empire?" "Excuse me? There is no British empire."

 

[Jim Steele]

the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

The show and its audience are smart enough to differentiate between British imperialism circa 1775 and the British TV viewing public post-y2k.

Besides, it's not like we're blind to the failings and faux-pas of our nation in its long history, and we're quite used to being portrayed as villains. Seriously, this isn't a concern.

 

[Starkers]

the target audience would have to be painted as the villains of the piece.

The show and its audience are smart enough to differentiate between British imperialism circa 1775 and the British TV viewing public post-y2k.

Besides, it's not like we're blind to the failings and faux-pas of our nation in its long history, and we're quite used to being portrayed as villains. Seriously, this isn't a concern.

Actually a historically accurate Who episode that dispeled a few American myths about 'satanically evil' redcoats (yes Im talking to you Mel Gibson ) could be a breath of fresh air.

We didn't want America anyway...

 

[Neroon]

Actually a historically accurate Who episode that dispeled a few American myths about 'satanically evil' redcoats (yes Im talking to you Mel Gibson ) could be a breath of fresh air.

This may be humorously intended, but at least it's an attempt to get back to some semblance of the original topic. 'Twould be wise to follow along a line as this than along any of the other sidebars that have been cropping up.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Doctor Jew, eh? An eight night special would be cool anyway. Then again, I don't even know if Christmas was mentioned in the special, I don't believe it was so it mgiht not really be necessary to "even the score" as it were.

If there's an inequality in Doctor Who it might be in blacks vs. people of Indian descent who make up a higher percentage of the English population but have a much lower profile in the Whoverse.

 

[captcalhoun]

Christmas was mentioned, cuz the urchin said 'it's Christmas Eve'.