I think I like how Mulgrew thinks.

[JanewayRulz!]

From Trektoday's blurb re: what do you want to convey re: Janeway in a post return movie.

According to Mulgrew, “I think I would convey in the movie Janeway’s inherent inability to grapple with the world. Her world is space and she comes to know this in a startlingly profound way when she is forced to grapple with her existence on earth.”

Good point.

Let's hope the Admiral isn't "stuck" on Earth.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Although I would prefer to see Janeway in command of a ship, I'm always a little put off by the fact that Kate always wants to make Kathryn a tragic hero. At some point, the character deserves a break.

Why can't she be happy where she is but still have a place among the stars?

 

[tomalak301]

From Trektoday's blurb re: what do you want to convey re: Janeway in a post return movie.

According to Mulgrew, “I think I would convey in the movie Janeway’s inherent inability to grapple with the world. Her world is space and she comes to know this in a startlingly profound way when she is forced to grapple with her existence on earth.”

Good point.

Let's hope the Admiral isn't "stuck" on Earth.

I was just thinking if that's the mentality of all the captains. Kirk felt the same way, and so did Picard. It's hard to adjust in desk job after spending a lot of years of your life in space.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

You'd think after 7 years of trying to get back to earth she'd be happy to be there. But to be honest I can't imagine her sitting behind a desk doing paperwork.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I see it like someone who's a great teacher, respected by her coworkers, but is eventually promoted to "Prinicipal". That's not what she wanted when she became a teacher, it was just thrust upon her, and she never gets to teach again.

Janeway aspired to be a Starship Captain... and Mulgrew, like many of us, fears in the mind of the writers any promotion beyond Captain is in effect... a demotion since she'll "supposedly" never captain a ship again. (Kirk did Kate!)

In effect, Janeway "was" Maureen McGovern's Sailor... who was brought home. Trouble is, once the sailor has been to sea, they really can't stay home anymore.

"I could have been a Sailor"

I'm a happy woman, I made my choice in life
I chose to settle down, I chose to be a wife
And I take pleasure in my quiet hearth, And happy home
I never gave my heart, Its chance to roam

I could have been a sailor, And sailed the seven seas
The wind in my face all day Can you taste the salty breeze?
I could have been a lover, Watchin' waves before me part
But I settled for safer harbors Of my heart

I'm a lucky woman, I'm the envy of my peers
Never ask for favors, And I never show my fears
Surrounded by too many friends, I am a one-man band
With all the trappings of A life lived second-hand

I could have been a sailor, Rollin' through the night
My sails before the wind, And the stars my only light
I could have been a dreamer, But dreams just fall apart
So, I settled for safer harbors Of my heart

And I take pleasure in my quiet hearth, And happy home
I never gave my heart, A chance to roam
I could have been a sailor, And sailed the seven seas
The wind in my face all day Can you taste the salty breeze?
I could have been a dreamer, But dreams just fall apart
So, I settled for safer harbors Of my heart

I settled for safer harbors Of my heart

 

[crusher]

Couldn't really imagine her happy behind a desk, maybe research but not desk bound. Honestly could picture her taking a ship toward the delta quadrant or such.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Admirals have ships. Depending on their job. Some are earthbound, some have starbases, some have starships and some float about to command particular resources native to the area of contention.

Some one wanted Kathy earthbound.

Besides, Kathryn Janeway will never be allowed singular control of any device that can be used for timetravel (Kim, too.) because she (her/their archetype.) has no respect of love for the integrity of the timeline. It's like staffing a drunk as nightwatchman at a brewery. Bad juju is gonna happen.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Well, to be fair, the only time travel incidents that are reported were the following:

Endgame
Future's End (which she really had no control over getting into the 20th century)
Relativity (the Fleet time cops recruited her to help, so I don't think that counts against her)

Endgame is the only one that is super questionable, and, even then, it wasn't the Kathryn now but a different Kathryn that actually distorted the timeline.

 

[kimc]

Although I would prefer to see Janeway in command of a ship, I'm always a little put off by the fact that Kate always wants to make Kathryn a tragic hero. At some point, the character deserves a break.

Why can't she be happy where she is but still have a place among the stars?

Because conflicted characters are more interesting for actors to play.

I would love to hear Jeri Ryan's take on the original proposed "tragic arc" for Seven. While her death would have been a blow to Seven fans as an actress I imagine it would have been a lot more interesting to play.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Of course you're right.

I had a sappy moment of 'happily ever after' disease, you know? Sometimes, you just want to see the tragic hero have some happiness.

 

[kimc]

Of course you're right.

I had a sappy moment of 'happily ever after' disease, you know? Sometimes, you just want to see the tragic hero have some happiness.

Oh I love a happy ending too. I was just viewing things from what I believe to be an actor's view for a moment.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I would love to hear Jeri Ryan's take on the original proposed "tragic arc" for Seven. While her death would have been a blow to Seven fans as an actress I imagine it would have been a lot more interesting to play.

Especially when you consider all Seven was in "Endgame" was an object to be fought over, by the Queen, the Admiral, the EMH and Chakotay.

The character really had very little place in the finale, other than to "be" pretty.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Though that was pretty much the case for all the character but Janeway (either one). "Endgame" was a Janeway show.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I did say "Archetype". They each hold inside themselves the potential to justify going through with the atrocities their future selves already have done.

Have you see the Deadzone Movie(I've been watching a lot of The west wing lately) Chris Walken sees a future, about a decade later, where Martin Sheen, then the President, fires off America's nuclear arsenal. Chris has to decide if he should kill this guy now for the genocide he is going to commit, and the cock ups that lead them down that path, to possibly avert the end of the world.

Relativity showed us that you can be charged with crimes you are going to commit in the future.

People are weak.

Admiral Janeway destroyed 30 years of good history where the federation thrived and the Borg were "managed" just to pair up the Indian and the borgette like some sort of space yentel. The future is now completely unclear especially since the Borg have a 30 year head start on developing defences against federation future technology they haven't even invented yet, making it autoredundantly useless. She is willing to risk a Borg Apocalypse just so Chuckles has a date on Friday night.

Kim ditto for Timeless. Timeless is ridiculously the same script as Endgame, but he destroyed 20 years of good history where the federation thrived to save barely a 150 people. He killed everyone in the universe constantly for twenty years like some sadistic bastard. meanwhile over in Endgame, Captain Kim told Janeway not to destroy his time line, himself and his crew and the entire universe, because that would be bad, being murdered is bad, but then changed his mind and for some reason, and his dopey crew didn't mutiny to save their lives from their Captain callously executing everyone of them and their families and every one they knew and every one they didn't know.

I believe that Janeway was promoted out of any position where she could do anything dangerous to the timeline and Kim will NEVER be promoted into a position where he can do anything dangerous to the timeline.

They are bad people.

 

[AuntKate]

I believe that Janeway was promoted out of any position where she could do anything dangerous to the timeline and Kim will NEVER be promoted into a position where he can do anything dangerous to the timeline.

Frankly, my dear, I think this is BS. I can't imagine how promoting any officer to admiral would prevent him/her from doing "anything dangerous to the timeline." If anything, admirals who are in the command chain (as we see Janeway occupying in "Nemesis") have just as much or more of a chance to play around with the timeline than a lowly captain in charge of a single starship would have.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh, it's certainly BS from the writers perspective, because I doubt they thought they were ever making anything than the best hero ever that no one would ever doubt was larger than life and even larger than Kirk... but humorously the facts fit my logical conclusion that the monster called Janeway needed to be restrained into a small box before she destroyed the universe again, and that she was so held.

You hear "Admrial" AuntyKate and you might think "in charge" when really there are many degrees of admiral with different levels of scope with acute to oblique renditions of power given that they are legally allowed to exact, and lets not forget on earth IN THE ADMIRALTY that there are probably thousands of Admirals in close quarters bumping elbows mastering known space like Princes the Universe. Admiral Janeway in the movie sat in an office on earth and delivered orders to captains in the field that she possibly had input in the construction of. She's a Press Secretary (been watching a lot of the West Wing lately. Alison Janey is magnificent.) parroting the admiralties will. If that's all Janeway's Job is, then that's all her job is no matter what her collar says, she has to be in that room to tell captains what other admirals say like some sort of appendix or shunt between the big sky thinkers and the blue collared cowboys chomping at the bit to serve at the will of Starfleet. Janeway is on a tight leash, or should be on a tight leash and the movie didn't lead us to believe in any other conclusions.

A Captain however, in the field away from purview and oversight is far too autonomous to get up to no good when they think no one is looking. Sure they have to do what they are told, but they have to be told what to do and there's a lot of wiggle room to do whatever the frak they feel like before, during and after orders.

 

[kimc]

^ Is there any way this could not be an "angry fanboy" reaction to Janeway giving Picard orders in a TNG film? I mean, Janeway showed up as an admiral in "Endgame" but I don't recall seeing the "contain her as an admiral" theory until after the movie. Just wondering...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nope. It's about destroying time for frivolous reasons.

Destroying time period is a dick move, but you can almost be forgiven if it's to save trillions and trillions of lives from slavery or death or put right that which once went wrong (or was made wrong by some evil bastard) while saving trillions and trillions of people from slavery or death. You know, desperately trying to save the fall of your empire if you're the good guys, but it's still a dick move.

Have you seen Stargate Continuum? The last movie?

SG1 is in an altered present and they're telling the the general played by Beau Bridges that they have to fix time and put everything back to how it was, and Beau replies "NO! ARE YOU INSANE!? I CANNOT BELIEVE THE SHEER ARROGANCE OF YOU PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!"

It was very loud.

I don't hate Janeway, I just think that some of her decisions should have had her courtmartialed and sentenced to confinement in a small box for most of the rest of her life because she is too dangerous to be allowed to roam free.

Besides, I'm accusing harry of being a criminal for exactly the same reasons in Timeless and Non Sequitor. he's not exactly an advertisement for testosterone but medically he qualifies as at least a boy.

 

[AuntKate]

The Admiral Janeway of "Nemesis" is not the same admiral we saw in "Engame." I always thought it was bogus to arrest Captain Braxton for crimes he was going to commit, and I don't think they can blame "Endgame" Captain Janeway for what the elder Janeway did.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is that directed towards me?

Are you insinuating I can't tell the difference between a 40(ish) year old Katrhyn Janeway from one effect of time and a 61(ish) year old Kathryn from a completely foreign effect of time and how because they are from from conflicting effects of time that they will never be the same persona again after Admiral Janeway violated the integrity of her life history?

However, if you track backwards to seconds before Admiral Janeway from the 25th century mangled in on her own history forcing her youngerself into living a completely different life... But they were the same person for the first 40 years of their life. Inside their soul they have the same driving instincts and predilictions to respond alike to identical influences... Of couse Admiral Janeway from 2404 had 27 years to become a different person, and probably had some really defining moments in the extra 14 years she spent in the delta to make her completely different, but honestly, the older you get the more entrenched in our ways people generally do become that the lessons we learn in latter life stick with lesser efficacy.

Old Janeway had less balls too. Her plan was over born by Captain janeway with in seconds and she capitulated immediately as if the force of young Janeways will was to cuinning and resolute for the old girl to put her shoulder in against. Unless, young Janeway was so predictable that old Janeway proffered up a bullshit feint that the youngling would have no choice but to go at odds with because she's so damn argumentative that she can't help but be kindling to the most dour reverse psychology.

Young Janeway has the capacity to kill time. It is in her nature to not become any at all squeemish at the thought of murdering every one in the universe to mulligan anything that's personally of some importance to her that have become unsuck or out of bounds.

Young Janeway will become a different old Janeway, but that's just another Janeway who scoffs at the thought of risking the rise and fall of empires and the conception and raising of children to save one member of her crew form being a little glum.

I must watch Sliding Doors again some time soon.