I just had a revelation

[Yanks]

Timewalker: But where is the line drawn at allowing ordinary citizens to replicate harmful substances/stuff? I know someone who is deathly allergic to garlic, but gets higher than a kite on cinnamon. And in spite of Tasha's speech to Wesley about drugs, it's difficult to believe that NOBODY on Earth has a drug habit or other harmful addiction of some sort.

True. But one could make the argument one of the main contributors to folks getting on drugs is economics. That kind of goes by the wayside with replicators.

I just don't think Earth achieves the utopian goal with out that technology.

Didn't they have technology built in to the replicators that made it so that certain stuff couldn't be replicated?

Money (I think we learned that in TNG) etc...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Commander Troi in season 3, did not have the security clearance to replicate REAL chocolate, no matter how desperate she got.

TROI: Computer, dispatches.
COMPUTER: A research enquiry from the Manitoba Journal of Interplanetary Psychology and three communiqués from your mother.
TROI: Transfer the letters from my mother to the viewscreen. And, computer, I would like a real chocolate sundae.
COMPUTER: Define real in context, please.
TROI: Real. Not one of your perfectly synthesised, ingeniously enhanced imitations. I would like real chocolate ice cream, real whipped cream
COMPUTER: This unit is programmed to provide sources of acceptable nutritional value. Your request does not fall within current guidelines. Please indicate whether you wish to override the specified programme?

 

[Lance]

I had a Revelation today.

I read that in the novel that Riker and Dee had a baby.

"Natasha"

I'm struggling to identify any deep personal connection between Dee and Yar.

It's 20 years later, half the Federation fell in the Dominion war, and 900 billion died in the last Borg assault... But 20 years ago there was this lady with big shoulders and a Sandy Duncan haircut who they just must name their first child after... (Okay Dee had a space baby in season two, but that barely counts.) So then I wondered if Tasha didn't have a relationship with Dee strong enough to earn her naming rights, what about Will? Which is when it dawned on me, that XO and the Secruity Chief must have been at it hot and fast through out most of 2364.

And that's my disgusting revelation for today.

"Today's revelation was brought to you by the letter 'X', and the number '3'."

 

[Timewalker]

Timewalker: But where is the line drawn at allowing ordinary citizens to replicate harmful substances/stuff? I know someone who is deathly allergic to garlic, but gets higher than a kite on cinnamon. And in spite of Tasha's speech to Wesley about drugs, it's difficult to believe that NOBODY on Earth has a drug habit or other harmful addiction of some sort.

True. But one could make the argument one of the main contributors to folks getting on drugs is economics. That kind of goes by the wayside with replicators.

Yeah, 'cause there are no rich people with drug habits.

Commander Troi in season 3, did not have the security clearance to replicate REAL chocolate, no matter how desperate she got.

TROI: Computer, dispatches.
COMPUTER: A research enquiry from the Manitoba Journal of Interplanetary Psychology and three communiqués from your mother.
TROI: Transfer the letters from my mother to the viewscreen. And, computer, I would like a real chocolate sundae.
COMPUTER: Define real in context, please.
TROI: Real. Not one of your perfectly synthesised, ingeniously enhanced imitations. I would like real chocolate ice cream, real whipped cream
COMPUTER: This unit is programmed to provide sources of acceptable nutritional value. Your request does not fall within current guidelines. Please indicate whether you wish to override the specified programme?

That doesn't actually state she doesn't have the clearance. The computer offers her the choice of overriding the program, so she must have the authority to do that if she wants. Of course, that would probably result in a negative note in her medical records.

I wonder if someone could get kicked out of Starfleet for eating too much chocolate? (even if it was the healthy kind)

 

[Lance]

Just think about what you would do if you won millions in the lottery. The freedom you get by such a win is enormous.

The thing is, in OUR society it would mean chaos, because we are trained and educated to work to live, and sometimes live to work. If you took the pressure away from people all of a sudden, of course at first the majority of them would turn into lazy couch potatoes. Money is right now the greatest element of ambition in our society.

But in Star Trek, humans have slowly developed to the point were they work for their own enjoyment, because the switch to a no money society didn't come out of the blue. They don't need money as motivation, and they don't need the pressure of a deadline to finish their work.


When you look at extremely rich people, most of them donate their money to charity (so, as Picard would say, they are trying "to better themselves and the rest of humanity"), and I give them the benefit of the doubt that they do it because they WANT to do it, and not because their PR manager told them to.

Yes it's a human at the end of a social evolution we see, not how we would end up if we magically woke up like this today. I for one would not get off the beach for a decade.

I wish we had seen the rebellious element on earth, the outliers that were still on that planet. Does anyone pay you to take the piss? I bet all art is govco approved, you don't get to live the evolved secure life if you manage to be outside of what the officials think is worthy of it.

As you've sort of touched upon, the very fact that there is even a 'New Zealand Penal Colony' at all indicates that 24th century human society still has social problems to deal with. I mean, I assume Tom Paris ain't using those showers all on his lonesome down there.

It does open up sinister overtones to the Star Trek universe, though. What if you're an outcast who refuses to "go with the flow"? What if you are driven by selfish interests, you do covet material possessions, you do everything that humanity is supposed to have "evolved" away from? What do the Feds do with you? Do they come for you in the middle of the night? Tie you down to a machine at a rehab facility, and send you out into the community again 'fully cured' and "able to make a valuable contribution to society"? (But only because, you 'want' to.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Cassidy Yates works as a freighter Captain in Alien space for cash.

After the Federation assimilates Bajor, she is going to move on to where she can earn and reap the benefits of earning.

Will the Bajorans be happy about the woman taking her magic baby with her?

 

[HIjol]

Tonight I was having real life conversation about the Borg and how in First Contact Starfleet still don't know a lot about the Borg compared to say, the Romulans, and that is why Picard was sent to the outer rim and not allowed in the fight because of this unknown quantity. And I was thinking about how so many people are devoted to researching the Borg and trying to understand them, how they tick and their weaknesses and how admirable this is. And then it occurred to me how much more EFFORT would be happening in such an area in the future, and in all and every area of research and science because no one has any physical needs to worry about. You don't worry about grant money, or paying the bills, or paying for the kids you don't live with or saving enough for a house or a car or retirement. Everything is absolutely taken care of and you get up every morning and work for your deep and abiding interest in the topic.

Your work is unconnected to eating and living and life security.

Probably there are a myriad of jobs that get you everything you want, you just sign up for one of them and you have travel credit, house credit, retirement credit. And it doesn't matter what job it is so if you are Mr. Science guy you get to play all day in science and if you are Mr. Lazy guy you find the least tasking thing you can get away with and do that. And the only people who get nothing are ones who opt out of the system completely and earth makes it so difficult for them they end up on some crap world working their butt off for a hamburger and this really puts a damper on opting out.

Anyway my revelation was that more would get done, people would be more excited about working to better the world if that work wasn't tied to their own financial and personal security. I don't know if this is true though.

A utopia /juːˈtoʊpiə/ is a community or society possessing highly desirable or near perfect qualities.

Teacake, your revelation is deep and wide...in some ways, the Star Trek life is reflected here in the UAE, more for Nationals than Ex-Pats, but some for both...as an American, I do not worry about mortgages or taxes or related financial instruments...my money goes home to needs there, so I really do not "see" much currency, save that which I need for food and recreation...

...the point is, I am free to work and explore and assist the education improvement effort here...much as I would be free in the Star Trek world to pursue intellectual and social improvement, individually and as a team...it is about as multicultural as it can get here, and there is also an element of time travel, in that a significant portion of the Arab population is still steeped and practiced in traditions and efforts we might deem archaic or backward...

...as to your revelation about Effort,you could not be more correct...here the Nationals want for nothing, and achieve incredible engineering, transport, social, medical and geographic wonders, and I believe it is because they are free to muse and envision and experiment and DO...

...One Ring rules them all here, in a way...do not mistake me, there are gaps and procedures we would probably not welcome...one ruler to each Emirate and One Ring to bind them (the President)...he/they say "do it" and it is done...not like the Star Trek world, to be sure, but some of the structure and freedom is similar...and yes, there is currency and renumeration here, but it is truly (mostly) a tool to create more for the society and the system...

...I believe your revelation that "...people would be more excited about working to better the world if that work wasn't tied to their own financial and personal security" ...there are security concerns in the region, to be sure, but the areas that I am comparing to your revelation are, though maybe what we would not call Utopia, safe and secure and supportive of the above prose...people ARE excited to work and better the world here in so many different ways, and I think your revelation is also a portend...

 

[Guy Gardener]

How do the "rapegangs" from Tasha Yar's childhood reconcile with the term "utopia"?

 

[Timewalker]

How do the "rapegangs" from Tasha Yar's childhood reconcile with the term "utopia"?

That doesn't count, since it wasn't Earth.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes the rape gangs weren't earth and the ruling perfect class of the UAE isn't the foreigners from third world countries they pay to clean their houses. In the future everything gets sonically cleaned and menial labor is tricky tech work where eyes are needed so not menial at all.

It's not people that have evolved it's how controlled society is on earth that's evolved. But Picard etc.. have drunk the root beer and absolutely believe all this civilization is in their DNA rather than a product of their freedom from material needs and ability to make earth inhospitable to those that don't meet the standards required for that freedom.

Of course brainwashing a whole species into thinking they have evolved into nice people marks the culture and being nice people is now seen as the default, so would have a positive effect behavior.

 

[HIjol]

How do the "rapegangs" from Tasha Yar's childhood reconcile with the term "utopia"?

Quoting teacake's words having to do with describing a kind of utopian society..."rape gangs."....not sure where you are getting that...???

 

[Gov Kodos]

How do the "rapegangs" from Tasha Yar's childhood reconcile with the term "utopia"?

That's what holodecks are for. Barclay did very bad things to holo-Riker, very bad.

Seriously, though, how much is Federation society moving toward the Talosian ideal (and fear) where machinery, robots, and holo-technology are taking away the need to work in the 24th century?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tasha was born in 2337 on the failed colony world of Turkana IV.

Not enough people "gave" their utility freely and the economy failed.

But then it could have "failed" for a lot of reasons right down to crop failure or weather issues, or meteor strike.

But remember, Earth and the Federation did not step in quickly before most of the population was terrorized and possibly eaten.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Tasha was born in 2337 on the failed colony world of Turkana IV.

Not enough people "gave" their utility freely and the economy failed.

But then it could have "failed" for a lot of reasons right down to crop failure or weather issues, or meteor strike.

But remember, Earth and the Federation did not step in quickly before most of the population was terrorized and possibly eaten.

That's what comes of not having a forward thinking leader who prepares for the survival of the better, more evolved members of the society.

 

[Guy Gardener]

As long as you know enough Shakespeare to hide from the fuzz when you're on the lamb after the fact.

 

[Gov Kodos]

As long as you know enough Shakespeare to hide from the fuzz when you're on the lamb after the fact.

...be not afraid of greatness. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em. Thy Fates open their hands. Let thy blood and spirit embrace them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You'll do fine.

Just check any daughters you might have for "crazyeyes".

 

[Gov Kodos]

You'll do fine.

Just check any daughters you might have for "crazyeyes".

Bright as a blade before it is stained with blood.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not a revelation.

But the Bad guy who the Romulans know about that the Federation is in the dark about are the Hirogen because their hunting grounds do extend to the far end of Romulan Space form the Federation side.

 

[Yanks]

How do the "rapegangs" from Tasha Yar's childhood reconcile with the term "utopia"?

That doesn't count, since it wasn't Earth.

Turkana IV