I hope old Spock...

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

A reboot pretending to be an alternate timeline.

Sure, just like all the other shows and films were (and are) pretending to be the same one. It's all pretend. The story can go however the writers want at any given moment, and look like whatever the designers want, etc., because that's all we're really talking about here...stories.

I don't agree. It just doesn't make logical sense to suggest that time travel can alter the past as well as the future.

Try telling that to Q, or the Prophets...

-MMoM

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And Data's head is still buried underneath San Francisco in both Prime AND Kelvin timelines, since his head was sent back to a point that long predates the divergence.

Exactly.

As of 2233, both the Prime and Kelvin timelines are possible futures. So any time travel that originates from either timeline (such as COTEOF) still happens.

 

[Discofan]

And Data's head is still buried underneath San Francisco in both Prime AND Kelvin timelines, since his head was sent back to a point that long predates the divergence.

There is no guaranty that Data would still exist in the Kelvin timeline (in which case his head would simply cease to exist and history would be adjusted accordingly). Noonian Soong was born long after the events of the Kelvin and therefore his birth could have been prevented by say his parents never meeting or something like that. My parents, for example, met because of a completely random occurrence and it wouldn't have taken much of a discrepancy for them to never have been near one another, in which case I would not exist.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is no guaranty that Data would still exist in the Kelvin timeline (in which case his head would simply cease to exist and history would be adjusted accordingly).

I agree that there might not be a Noonien Soong - and therefore no Data - in the Kelvin timeline, but Data's head is still there.

This is because Data's head was left in San Francisco long before the divergence. It came from the future of the prime timeline, which still exists. Therefore, both the prime and Kelvin timelines have Data's head underneath SF.

Remember: As of 2233 (the point of divergence), both the prime and Kelvin timelines are possible futures. Therefore, any time travel that originates from EITHER timeline will still occur, even if that time travel ends at a point before the divergence. So characters from both timelines could travel back to a point prior to 2233 and even meet each other...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Regardless of where you fall on the debate of the Kelvin movies being a alternate timeline of the same multiverse, if Spock can tell his younger self about Kahn, he can tell them about anything.

Then again, Spock probably should have said "Oh, a white guy? Not the same Kahn, nevermind."

 

[Discofan]

Regardless of where you fall on the debate of the Kelvin movies being a alternate timeline of the same multiverse, if Spock can tell his younger self about Kahn, he can tell them about anything.

Then again, Spock probably should have said "Oh, a white guy? Not the same Kahn, nevermind."

Old Spock could have said: "At least you're spared that painful meeting with that backstabbing fiancee of mine/yours!"

 

[BillJ]

Old Spock could have said: "At least you're spared that painful meeting with that backstabbing fiancee of mine/yours!"

I'm sure T'Pring survived. No way they're chucking the opportunity for a future T'Pring/Uhura cat fight!

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm sure T'Pring survived. No way they're chucking the opportunity for a future T'Pring/Uhura cat fight!

No catfight, Spock caught T'Pring doing the Vulcan nasty with Stonn..

 

[BillJ]

No catfight, Spock caught T'Pring doing the Vulcan nasty with Stonn..

Stonn is ash.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I guess it's true, then. T'Pring really does have a heart of Stonn.

 

[Yistaan]

...told his younger self about V'ger and the "Whale Probe", both those crises (threatening twice the total destruction of life on Earth) were solved by the skin of their teeth by the combined ingenuity of Kirk and Spock and neither case should be affected by the change in the timeline, IE V'ger is still headed for Earth in search of its creator and the Whale Probe is still wondering why it hasn't received any whale call for more than two hundred years...

Don't you agree?

I find it highly unlikely that all Section 31 operatives in the Kelvin timeline were killed after 'Star Trek Into Darkness'. If any of them survived, they'd surely have figured out the presence of Spock Prime hanging around filled with all that amazing future knowledge.

It wouldn't surprise me if Spock Prime's "natural" death in Star Trek Beyond was in fact a Section 31 fabrication to cover the fact that they killed him and uploaded his brain into a computer. "Spock Prime's Brain"

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Nero traveled back in time, altering events from that point forward. However, because future events were altered, that would have also altered future incursions by people going back in time prior to Nero's arrival, thus further altering the timeline before the incident with the Kelvin (and explaining some of the pre-existing - pre-Kelvin - differences that don't jive with the established Prime timeline). The effects of Nero's trip back in time therefore effect both future and past events. Effects can precede causes.

 

[Yistaan]

Nero traveled back in time, altering events from that point forward. However, because future events were altered, that would have also altered future incursions by people going back in time prior to Nero's arrival, thus further altering the timeline before the incident with the Kelvin (and explaining some of the pre-existing - pre-Kelvin - differences that don't jive with the established Prime timeline). The effects of Nero's trip back in time therefore effect both future and past events. Effects can precede causes.

This doesn't work. Orci said Enterprise is canon to the Kelvin timeline. Enterprise featured borg left over from first contact. Thus, prime universe time travel still occurred in the kelvin timeline past and was not undone by nero.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Orci's wrong. lol

 

[Yistaan]

Orci's wrong. lol

Star Trek Beyond has clear references to the Xindi. The Xindi war was a direct result of the Temporal Cold War, which involved time travel from the Prime timeline. Krall was a MACO. It seems very likely that Enterprise is canon to the Kelvin timeline.

 

[Shawnster]

What else is out there? Monsters easily dealt with - any two-bit skipper could have blown the Space Amoeba to bits, and people other than Kirk would probably fare better with the Doomsday Machine or the Dikironium Cloud.

This brings up an interesting point to further the divergence. Kirk never served as a lieutenant on the Farragut under Captain Garrovick. Therefore Kirk never develops the Ahab like obsession with the cloud creature.

Kirk likewise never had to report Ben Fenney for his error on the Republic. Did he even meet Finney? Was Jamie named after someone else?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Star Trek Beyond has clear references to the Xindi. The Xindi war was a direct result of the Temporal Cold War, which involved time travel from the Prime timeline. Krall was a MACO. It seems very likely that Enterprise is canon to the Kelvin timeline.

ENT is canon in BOTH timelines, as it predates the divergence by several decades.

 

[Yistaan]

ENT is canon in BOTH timelines, as it predates the divergence by several decades.

I agree that Enterprise is canon to Kelvin, it was @Sisko_is_my_captain who seemed to imply that ENT is not canon to the Kelvin timeline due to his theory that all Prime time travel into the past is negated by Nero (i.e. Enterprise can't be canon to Kelvin because it features Borg drones from the Prime timeline).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Remember what I just said. Prior to the divergence in 2233, both Prime and Kelvin are possible futures. All time travel that originates from EITHER timeline will still occur.

Yes, in ENT we see Borg drones from Prime. But if characters from Kelvin were to travel back that far, we’d see them too. Since ENT predates the divergence, anyone or anything travelling back from BOTH timelines could meet there.

 

[Yistaan]

^ Remember what I just said. Prior to the divergence in 2233, both Prime and Kelvin are possible futures. All time travel that originates from EITHER timeline will still occur.

Yes, in ENT we see Borg drones from Prime. But if characters from Kelvin were to travel back that far, we’d see them too. Since ENT predates the divergence, anyone or anything travelling back from BOTH timelines could meet there.

Are you pointing to my quote? Because I agree with everything you said, always did. I'm not the one you should try to convince, I have always believed that the Enterprise is canon to both timelines.

My discussion about ENT not being canon because of Borg was paraphrasing what (I think) @Sisko_is_my_captain is trying to say, and not reflective of my own views. If I got @Sisko_is_my_captain 's views wrong, he's welcome to comment. But his "Orci's wrong. lol" post seems to imply he doesn't think ENT is canon to Kelvin.