I have a question for everybody: What is Deaf?

[Supreme Admiral]

That question I’ve wanted to ask you long time to comes. It’s something that I didn’t expected to ask you of this. As of late, I noticed that you’re having a trouble to understand my writing here on the forum, I thought that my writing was excellent as I’ve been told, because none of deaf people share that gift that I have.

Sister Bonnie who happens to be catholic nun, we were working together to studying for me to accept that religion of mine, I wrote that letter to people that I know in my life. Sister Bonnie took my letter and take her time to reading this letter before being sending, she was under impressed that my writing is nothing that compares to deaf people who are struggling to master that English language of theirs.

Not that I collect to master this English writing skills, but I don’t understand why you’re having a trouble with my writing here on the forum. To me, you would be able to understand my good writing, but had I been wrong.

You see, I have a beautiful gift from within. It has been slept for years without my acknowledge, I had no idea that I have that gift to writes to inspires to one another. Despite of being deaf, I has to approaching that question to better understanding; What is deaf? Why are we being like this? Should we be able to skill ourselves like hearing people does?

I thought to myself; “Why can’t we live among our hearing people who has a amazing gift to inspires to one another? Why are we here? What of our purpose here on the earth in the universe? What challenge that awaits us in the ahead of our lives? Can we do it like hearing people do?”

My, my, my, I was unable to comprehends the true truth about being deaf and all. You see, I’m very good at reading books to understand each words that beams into my brain, maybe that was my gift that has been slept for years? There are so many questions that I want to answer them all at once.

But former teacher of mine told me that I wasn’t allowed to reading 8th grade book, she said that it would be harder for me and my classmates to reads, you know what? I find it bullshit! Who says that we can’t read grade level of our own? I wanted to learn so many new words, they never did to teach us this new words from each days.

Like “comprehend”! I didn’t understand that word until now, I felt like I’ve been missing out on those each words. I felt like it’s unfair for me to know each words of them from the each books of the grade level of its each own. That leads me to wondering; do hearing people fears of deaf people who can do anything like them?

I admit that this is my second language, but still, I convinced myself that I was doing well with my English writing as you understood them from time to time. Answer my question: What’s wrong with my English writing?

I need your help to overcome this! I want to master my English writing, so you can understand them better. Forgive me for writing like this, because I needs to know what went wrong with my writing, that’s all.

We need to discuss about this. It would be good thing to approaching that question; “What is deaf?”

I didn’t meant to insult the deaf culture, but I want to know why are we here on the earth while our hearing is close on the door, where we’re unable to open the door to hearing the sounds like this again. To be honest with you, I want to open that door to hearing the sounds again before my time is up here on the earth.

I want to hear audio books, hear each words to understand myself, trusts myself that I can do it. To improves my English skills.

Since it’s beyond my comperhensive; will you answer that questions?

 

[JustKate]

Answer my question: What’s wrong with my English writing?

Supreme Admiral, your writing is vivid and distinctive, and you have a real gift for conveying feeling. I can indeed almost always understand exactly what you mean, and as you know, that's quite a feat. I certainly couldn't do make myself understood in any language other than my first one.

However, you simply make many mistakes - you write like someone whose first language is not English. The problem isn't your vocabulary - it's things like when to use take and when to use took, when to use slept and when to use sleeping, when a noun takes an article such as a or an and when it doesn't. It's all basic stuff, but "basic" doesn't mean "easy." It's basic stuff that people who learn English as a second or third language have trouble with. It's learning how to write English idiomatically.

Surely you've seen people - hearing people who learn sign language late - stumble when they try to use sign language. Well, they are probably making the same sort of mistakes that you do. They don't know the idioms, they don't know how sentence structure varies between sign and spoken English, they don't know how to conjugate their verbs, they don't know which pronoun to use, they don't know which preposition to use.

One of the other sites that I visit is a grammar website, and there's a section there for questions from people whose first language is Japanese or Chinese or Latvian or something, and those folks have the same problems that you seem to have. And I mean exactly the same problems.

Actually, lots of people whose first language is English have trouble writing, too, and the reason is that spoken English isn't the same as written English. It is apparently a lot closer to written English than the ASL (I think you said before that this is your usual form of communication?) that you use, though. But still, there are differences, and people who can talk English just fine have to make adjustments when they need to write English. (And not all of them succeed, by the way.) So I think that's what you're going to have to do, too - find out how written English differs from ASL and make adjustments accordingly.

You do have one advantage over someone whose first language is Japanese or Latvian, in that you can read and comprehend written English, and the folks whose first language is Latvian have nearly as much trouble reading English as they do writing it or speaking it.

As for how you can make your English more idiomatic, I'm hoping you know a teacher with expertise in this area, because I have none. I can make suggestions, but of course I'm only guessing. You might start, if you haven't tried this already, by reading something more idiomatic than a novel, for example - such as scripts or plays or novels with lots of dialog. You'd need to get advice from somebody as to specific works that might be useful in this way.

 

[Miss Chicken]

The problem I have with your writing is there is no real excuse for all the mistakes you make.

I assume you started to learn to write in English when you were five or six? If you weren't taught than you had very poor teachers as I know that written English is considered to be extremely important by educators of the deaf.

I also assume that you have read a great deal throughout your life? Maybe your teacher held you back when you were younger but you have been an adult for several years and it is now totally in your hands. You should have a better idea from that on how a sentence should be structured etc if not, you need to teach yourself.

English might be a second language to you, but you have been exposed to it most of your life. I assume you can lip-read? That you read subtitled films and read books. I cannot understand why you haven't grasped the basics of English from having these skills.

 

[JustKate]

^ I've heard from one other deaf person, Miss Chicken - I'm not pretending this is definitive or anything, but it is interesting - that the expectations of his teachers in the deaf school he attended were very low regarding written English. He said, in fact, that he and the rest of the kids in his class were taught almost no basic English grammar.

He was very angry about it - when he came out in the real world and found out how important it is.

And actually, lots of people who aren't deaf aren't taught it either - at least not in the U.S. They pick it up by ear. Sad, but true. I've heard, but again this is just heresay, that it's much harder to pick it up via reading than it is by ear.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Nice avatar, Supreme Admiral. We don't see a lot of Sarek ones.

Your English writing is better than many people on this board. It is somewhat off-rhythm in syntax at times, but I don't find it very hard to understand.

I think the reason people may have been reacting negatively to your writing is because so many are lazy in their writing skill, that it becomes a constant issue to understand each other.

As a result, some may be thinking that you are yet another lazy writer, because of your unusual syntax. So they give you some griping because of that.

What is deaf?
There is physical deafness, such as yours. But that is not the worst kind. The worst kind of deafness are those people whose minds are so full of their own thoughts they can't hear anyone else.

 

[JonathonWally]

That question I’ve wanted to ask you long time to comes. It’s something that I didn’t expected to ask you of this. As of late, I noticed that you’re having a trouble to understand my writing here on the forum, I thought that my writing was excellent as I’ve been told, because none of deaf people share that gift that I have.

Same paragraph:

This question I've wanted to ask of you for a long time. It's something that I wasn't expecting to ask you. As of late, I've noticed that you're having trouble understanding my writing here on this forum. I thought my writing was excellent, I've been told as much, because other deaf people don't share my gift.


You're issue is tenses and articles. I don't know sign, but I would guess sentence structure is handled much differently than written English. We understand what you're trying to say. And it's not your fault really. English tends to be a suck language like that.

It's spoken and written differently. The other thread you started that people were saying was hard to understand was because you weren't being clear, it was coming out like gibberish. That tends to happen when people are upset, frustrating, or trying to type as they think.

I'm definately guilty of that last one. I always just type on here as I think and often don't go over my posts so my grammer and syntax is usually off.

English doesn't flow that well sometimes. I'm sure with practice and more interaction you'll get it perfect though. It just takes patience.

 

[thestrangequark]

It is important to note that ASL uses English words but in a structure that is more grammatically similar to French than to spoken/written English. When I read your writing, Admiral, and imagine the words are French, your grammar makes a little more sense. The grammar that comes naturally to you is correct for ASL, but somewhat different to spoken English and written English.

I was deaf as a young child, though my hearing was restored by the time I was 4. I didn't start speaking aloud until 4-5, and spoke ASL primarily for my first 4 years. I was too young to really remember the transition, but I owe my fluency to my mother's encouragement to study as many books as I could, before and after my hearing was restored. I think you should read whatever you can get your hands on! The only way you are going to master written English is to read it as written by skilled writers. Read, read, read -- that's number one. Also, continue to post here and see if you can find other venues in which to communicate with hearing English speakers. It is no insult to deaf culture to want to explore hearing culture. Deaf culture is something to be valued, but it wouldn't keep you from exploring Chinese culture, or Native American culture, or any other culture.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

While I have no problem giving Supreme Admiral some slack and working a little harder to understand him, let's remember that he has expressed an urge to be a professional writer. As his writing currently stands he is going to face instant rejection should he attempt to purse that. That doesn't mean you have no talent Supreme Admiral and you couldn't eventually be successful but I would recommend seeking out people with experience in ASL and writing who can help you develop a style that is more suited to what people are used to. I wouldn't give up on your dream at all though. I always wanted to be a writer and even with your disability you are a lot further along than I ever was. Good luck and we here at the board will give you any help you need.

 

[JonathonWally]

While I have no problem giving Supreme Admiral some slack and working a little harder to understand him, let's remember that he has expressed an urge to be a professional writer. As his writing currently stands he is going to face instant rejection should he attempt to purse that. That doesn't mean you have no talent Supreme Admiral and you couldn't eventually be successful but I would recommend seeking out people with experience in ASL and writing who can help you develop a style that is more suited to what people are used to. I wouldn't give up on your dream at all though. I always wanted to be a writer and even with your disability you are a lot further along than I ever was. Good luck and we here at the board will give you any help you need.

Eh, I wouldn't worry, that's why Editors have jobs.

 

[CaptainStoner]

While I have no problem giving Supreme Admiral some slack and working a little harder to understand him, let's remember that he has expressed an urge to be a professional writer. As his writing currently stands he is going to face instant rejection should he attempt to purse that. That doesn't mean you have no talent Supreme Admiral and you couldn't eventually be successful but I would recommend seeking out people with experience in ASL and writing who can help you develop a style that is more suited to what people are used to. I wouldn't give up on your dream at all though. I always wanted to be a writer and even with your disability you are a lot further along than I ever was. Good luck and we here at the board will give you any help you need.

Eh, I wouldn't worry, that's why Editors have jobs.

No, it's a valid criticism. There's little point in sugar-coating things. If the OP is going to write professionally, they are going to have to master the language and its syntax. The only way I can see it working in the current state, is to have a co-writer. It would be incredibly unfair to try and make an editor wade through hundreds of pages written like that.

 

[thestrangequark]

^The OP is still in 8th grade. I think that if he works at it he could achieve fluency in written English by the time he's ready to turn professional. Many people learn to write fluently and artistically in other languages, and the OP has an advantage in that ASL and spoken/written English have a strong commonality.

 

[CaptainStoner]

^ oh, really? 8th grade. Oh hell, he's got it cornered.

Ahhh, to be that young again....the world is before you, SupremeAdmiral.

 

[Mallory]

^The OP is still in 8th grade.

According to the MySpace page in his profile, he's 24. That seems to be a little old for 8th grade.

 

[Shaw]

Well, I'll share this... I have what amounts to a learning disability with regards to language. What I found was that while reading I have no inner voice. In effect, I don't generally hear the words I'm reading.

This has always effected my writing, but I didn't really realize the issue until I had reached a level of mathematics in which I didn't have anyone to talk to about the subject. I was reading and learning new words to describe aspects of what I was studying, but I had never associated sounds with those words. When a professor came to town to discuss my work, it took me a while to understand what he was saying and I hadn't heard many of the terms spoken aloud until that point (which, I would add, was an embarrassing experience).

Grammar was always the hardest thing for me in writing. In speaking, I would listen to myself speak sort of like music... listening for off tones (bad grammar). And without an inner voice for writing, I wasn't able to apply the same technique for my written correspondence... until about 15 years ago.

What changed was finding text-to-speech software Apple included with their System 7 operating system that would let the computer read back what I had just written. Proof reading is always hard as you usually superimpose what you meant to say over what you are reading. But what the computer is reading is what you've written right back to you, so you hear every word and you can hear the grammar.

I listen to everything I write before I let anyone else see it (including this post) to make sure I'm saying what I mean to say.

So why bring this up here? If I couldn't hear what I've written, my written grammar would read very much like Supreme Admiral's. I use tools to get around issues that he can't because of his disability. And I keep that in mind when reading his posts.

After all, someone born deaf most likely doesn't have an inner voice for language... which is something I can empathize with.

 

[pookha]

But former teacher of mine told me that I wasn’t allowed to reading 8th grade book, she said that it would be harder for me and my classmates to reads, you know what? I find it bullshit! Who says that we can’t read grade level of our own? I wanted to learn so many new words, they never did to teach us this new words from each days.

the 8th grade incident seems to be from the past.
see "former" teacher.

 

[Supreme Admiral]

^The OP is still in 8th grade. I think that if he works at it he could achieve fluency in written English by the time he's ready to turn professional. Many people learn to write fluently and artistically in other languages, and the OP has an advantage in that ASL and spoken/written English have a strong commonality.

No. I'm not in 8th grade anymore. I've graduated from New Jersey school for the Deaf. Sorry to confusing you.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Got it. The misreading was on my part!

 

[RoJoHen]

Sorry to confusing you.

The problem seems to be that you don't understand when and why to use verb tenses and articles.

In this sentence, you should not have said "to confusing," yet you did. Do you know why you did? Or did you just pick a random form of the verb and decide to use it?

You should have said either:

"Sorry to confuse you" or "Sorry to be confusing you."

There are rules in written english, and you just don't seem to have a firm grasp on them. You write like someone who is attempting to translate another language, which is a fine place to start, but you still have a lot of learning to do.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I actually translated it as "sorry for confusing you".

 

[RoJoHen]

I actually translated it as "sorry for confusing you".

That works, too, and I think it makes the topic that much more interesting. English is so complex, it's no wonder SA has a hard time writing it. I certainly couldn't imagine trying to comprehend things like articles and prepositions and verb tense without ever actually speaking or hearing the language.