I Hate The Klingon Race

[DarKush]

I liked the Klingons, though I felt they were overexposed, particularly by the time of Enterprise. Similar to the Borg, I think the Trek writers kept going back to them because they were so recognizable figures and popular figures and didn't understand the concept of too much of a good thing.

Regarding the seeming contradiction of the TOS devious Klingons and the TNG honorable ones, I chalk it up to the vagaries of Klingon honor. It is supposed to be an alien culture after all and why should their concept of honor fit human notions? Also, the TNG era Klingons had some pretty devious characters too, like Gowron and the House of Duras, and the Klingon people or rulers seemed to have a jaundiced view regarding honor. Kmpec also was pretty much a pragmatist. The only one was steadfast about it was Worf, who largely lived away from the Empire, and perhaps had an idealized version of Klingon culture.

 

[Kelthaz]

Klingons are pretty boring as a race, but as long as we have Martok I can't bring myself to hate them.

 

[Anwar]

I think with the invention of pain sticks, we pretty much jumped over the cliff of taking them seriously.

I don't see how those things are sillier than any human invention.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

How could you not love Martok?

And the likes of Gowron or the Duras Sisters make fun, colorful foes every so often.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Klingons are pretty boring as a race, but as long as we have Martok I can't bring myself to hate them.

Ditto.

 

[Nightdiamond]

And they don't cook food, you know.

They'll eat your heart after battle if you're honorable.

Women cant be politicians.

And they have a "Great Council" (just 8 or so guys standing around)

But I still think they're interesting characters.

True, it's stupid when every 3rd word out of their mouths is "Honor", and they let it run every aspect of their culture.

But episodes like "Blood Oath", "Once more unto the Breach" are fun to watch.

 

[antiquityscion]

That said I do have a soft spot for Lursa and B'etor, could have seen a lot more of them IMHO.

How could you not love Martok?

And the likes of Gowron or the Duras Sisters make fun, colorful foes every so often.

+1 and +1!!!

I love the Klingons as they are, especially in the TNG\DS9\VOY era, but I do agree they were over exposed.

I also agree I would have liked seeing more of the Romulans.

But I think the biggest thing I would have liked seeing is Klingosn trying to move away from their "Warrior Ways," and trying to be more of a democracy, than an empire. I always found it inconsistent for the Federation to ally itself with the Klingon Empire. Honor aside, and battle of Kittomer aside, the two should not have been allies, with the Klingons as they were portrayed in the TNG era: IE being bloodthirstywarriors, and still oppressive to the planets they conquered. That part always seemed swept under the rug by the Federation, because that is what they are supposed to stand against.

In fact, it wasn't until the Klingons invaded Cardassian space in DS9 and the Federation condemned it, that I felt the Federation was FINALLY living up to its ideals, in regards to the Federation.

The Klingons, especially considering the Federation bailed them out of the Praxis moon explosion crisis, and Kittomer accords in Star Trek 6 TUC, seemed to be in a state of transition. Then fast forward to Season 1 TNG. Early on in TNG, the Klingons and Federation were supposed to be more of a joint venture (IE Heart of Glory), not just two major powers getting along. What happened to that angle, I am not sure, but I think it would have been more interesting, and more consistent for the Federation, if we saw the "Warrior Klingons" slowly trying to adopt more Federation and democratic philosophies, and to be less oppressive, and the strife and resistance from some Klingon hardliners who didn't want to see that happen.

That dynamic would have been interesting, in that we could have seen the "old guard" Klingons lamenting the idea of giving up territories, and being more democratic, and younger Klingons embracing those things. Especially considering that the Klingons were originally an allegory for the USSR in the 1960s on TOS, it would have been just as appropriate for the Klingons to be an allegory for the Russian Federation post-1990 on TNG\DS9\VOY (which was in the 1990s), just as they were in the TOS films Star Trek 5 & 6.

 

[Anwar]

And they don't cook food, you know.

Tell that to DS9's Klingon Chef.

They'll eat your heart after battle if you're honorable.

Tough guy talk, there are guys here on Earth who'd say the same thing.

Women cant be politicians.

They can't be on the High Council, not the same thing as not being a politician.

And they have a "Great Council" (just 8 or so guys standing around)

Feudalism, those 8 guys control Houses that encompass great amounts of power and territory that comprise the Klingon Empire. There are likely hundreds of smaller Vassal Houses that are under their control willing to allow the one House Lord to represent them all.

 

[Destructor]

I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy.

 

[T'Girl]

Women cant be politicians.

They can't be on the High Council, not the same thing as not being a politician.

And from TUC, woman can be the Chancellor of the High Council. Just skip those middleman positions and advance directly to the top.

And they have a "Great Council" (just 8 or so guys standing around)

Feudalism, those 8 guys control Houses that encompass great amounts of power and territory that comprise the Klingon Empire. There are likely hundreds of smaller Vassal Houses that are under their control willing to allow the one House Lord to represent them all.

I imagine sometimes that the Klingon Empire might be organized somewhat like the Empire in the novel Dune.

The Houses major and minor are there, and the power plays between them. The intrigue is there. Rule (per Kor in DS9) by the aristocratic. No democracy.

Differences exist too.

I can never forgive them for the death of my boy.

And from his trial in TUC, the Klingons didn't forgive Kirk, for the death of their sons at his hands.

 

[sonak]

Women cant be politicians.

They can't be on the High Council, not the same thing as not being a politician.

And from TUC, woman can be the Chancellor of the High Council. Just skip those middleman positions and advance directly to the top.

Feudalism, those 8 guys control Houses that encompass great amounts of power and territory that comprise the Klingon Empire. There are likely hundreds of smaller Vassal Houses that are under their control willing to allow the one House Lord to represent them all.

I imagine sometimes that the Klingon Empire might be organized somewhat like the Empire in the novel Dune.

The Houses major and minor are there, and the power plays between them. The intrigue is there. Rule (per Kor in DS9) by the aristocratic. No democracy.

Differences exist too.

I can never forgive them for the death of my boy.

And from his trial in TUC, the Klingons didn't forgive Kirk, for the death of their sons at his hands.

When did Kirk kill Klingons except as part of his duties in self-defense?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And they don't cook food, you know.

Tell that to DS9's Klingon Chef.

I don't recall him cooking anything just throwing it on a plate.

They'll eat your heart after battle if you're honorable.

Tough guy talk, there are guys here on Earth who'd say the same thing.

But would they actually do it.

Women cant be politicians.

They can't be on the High Council, not the same thing as not being a politician.

Not much point if you can't get to the major power positions.

And they have a "Great Council" (just 8 or so guys standing around)

Feudalism, those 8 guys control Houses that encompass great amounts of power and territory that comprise the Klingon Empire. There are likely hundreds of smaller Vassal Houses that are under their control willing to allow the one House Lord to represent them all.

And I will never understand why there hasn't been some major uprising to kill those 8 guys.

 

[Ian Keldon]

When did Kirk kill Klingons except as part of his duties in self-defense?

You know that and I know that, but the Klingons didn't see it that way. From their perspective, the Federation was acting aggressively and they were acting in self-defense.

 

[Ian Keldon]

I don't recall him cooking anything just throwing it on a plate.

Some dishes are cooked and some aren/t. Rokeg blood pie, for example, would be baked, and there is reference to a "skull stew", which would imply some cooking.

But would they actually do it.

So would some people here on earth to this day, esp in South America.

Not much point if you can't get to the major power positions.

I will never understand why there hasn't been some major uprising to kill those 8 guys.

The same reason why other kingdoms and empires have lasted for centuries or millenia: either most people don't care enough to, or the gov't is just that powerful and they can't.

That said, there have been uprisings at least on a local scale against the empire mentioned or shown in both TNG and Enterprise.

 

[Nightdiamond]

According to Kurn, they don't cook their food. They eat it raw. Like the barbarians do. They consider human cooked food bland or disgusting. Why is this not surprising?

Call me crazy, but at times, some of that Klingon stuff looks kinda of good.

Like I said the Klingons are interesting, but honestly, I don't how their empire/society could have lasted so long with their way doing things-- they hardly advance their medicine, they got a weird feudal system thing going on-the military belongs to houses-and they have a bias against science.

And these weird rules of honor, which they tie in to every aspect of their society.

But yet they're interesting!

 

[Nerys Myk]

They can't be on the High Council, not the same thing as not being a politician.

And from TUC, woman can be the Chancellor of the High Council. Just skip those middleman positions and advance directly to the top.

I imagine sometimes that the Klingon Empire might be organized somewhat like the Empire in the novel Dune.

The Houses major and minor are there, and the power plays between them. The intrigue is there. Rule (per Kor in DS9) by the aristocratic. No democracy.

Differences exist too.

I can never forgive them for the death of my boy.

And from his trial in TUC, the Klingons didn't forgive Kirk, for the death of their sons at his hands.

When did Kirk kill Klingons except as part of his duties in self-defense?

He and Spock waged a two man (unasked for) guerrilla war against the Klingons on Organia.

 

[T'Girl]

(unasked for)

They weren't doing it for the Organians, they were doing it as Starfleet officers.

It was Starfleet that "asked" them to do it.

they hardly advance their medicine

My impression is that it isn't that they can't have advanced medicine, it's that they don't want it. It would violate some of the values of their society.That doesn't mean they have a overall bias against science, it might be the warrior caste alone that doesn't avail themselves of medical care above a certain point..

they got a weird feudal system thing going on

True, but the type of government of the nation that first placed a Human in space was pretty barbaric.

And these weird rules of honor, which they tie in to every aspect of their society.

But again, that might be the warriors only, the bulk of the Klingon population could have a general place for the "Honor Thing" in their daily lives, but not be overly occupied by it.

But yet they're interesting!

At least they are different.

They eat it raw.

Sushi, steak tartare, my cousins saw to it that I immediately ate part of the raw liver of the first deer I shot.

 

[Nerys Myk]

(unasked for)

They weren't doing it for the Organians, they were doing it as Starfleet officers.

It was Starfleet that "asked" them to do it.

To paraphrase John Bigboote, it's not their planet, monkey boy.

 

[stj]

In Star Trek, basically, the Klingons are the bad guys you still make peace with. The except that proves the rule, A Private Little War, still has to be viewed in the context of the war in Vietnam. The episode falsely shares the government assumption that the Communists are the aggressors, but still comes out against direct intervention of the kind under way. The thought that it is precisely your enemies you must make peace with is still shockingly novel.

In early TNG, the Klingons are symbolic of "our" militarism, and thus to a degree satirical targets.

Both the above kinds of Klingons are admirably crafted figures. The later, cool Klingons are to some degree symbols of African Americans and the emphasis on acceptance of Klingon culture represents the concern that "we" accept the African-American culture. Unfortunately the Klingons being putative non-humans means that to some degree this is saying African-Americans are not really human, at least not like "us." This aspect makes the Klingons a dreadful concept.

Of course, part of the Klingon mythos is that they are cool (closely related to the preceding, as it is reminiscent of myths about African-American sexual prowess.) Pain sticks are supposed to be really neat. The thing is, most of that stuff, like the honor etc. is really, really stupid. The Klingon empire for instance doesn't seem to have any subject peoples. These idiots couldn't even run a city much less an empire. This is pure dumb fuckery.

 

[CAPTAINMAX]

I` m not a huge fan of them i mean like when they have an episode which is about them i usually skip it and watch another one.