I Had the Most Amazing Day

[backstept]

Not to undermine your understanding of the situation, but if most people heard a man screaming and yelling in desperation, their conclusions would be quite different.

it's all about the context.


back in January I ran sound for a 5 hour time of worship for several local churches. it was wonderful! it's hard to describe, but the flow of time seemed to change. the Spirit of God was definitely there. time seemed to stop, but also to move quickly . . . it didn't feel like 5 hours, it felt like an eternity in an instant
the band played one of the songs for over an hour, but it didn't get old. people were dancing, clapping, kneeling, weeping, laughing, praying

if you've never experience this, it may seem pretty strange, but it really is an amazing thing

 

[Squiggy]

...but the flow of time seemed to change...

I've run sound for some NASA shows that felt this way.

 

[T'Baio]

And while god was working in this church, thousands died.

Is this for real?

Why is this okay, totally accepted, we are warned about anymore mocking, but I could say Scientologists are flakes and no one would bat an eye? It's the same thing! Outside of a religious context, this would be the rantings of a loon!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

... soon after everyone began to hear the man in one of the rooms behind the stage screaming and yelling. I don't remember what he said, but I was aware of cries of desperation. I was just in prayer at that time overcome with joy.

So, you hear a man crying out in desperation, and your reaction is to be overcome with joy? Any thought of say, helping the man? Or asking, "hey, is everything alright back there?"

Does any part of you for even a second question that maybe they just had a dude screaming in the background and said he had a demon in him? You didn't actually see anything happen.

I just don't understand why people can't just worship God without the sermon turning into a Buffy episode.

 

[Michael Chris]

So, you hear a man crying out in desperation, and your reaction is to be overcome with joy? Any thought of say, helping the man? Or asking, "hey, is everything alright back there?"

They weren't really related (I was overcome with joy because of the connection I felt with God), but it was certainly joyful that the demon was being driven out. It wasn't the man that was crying out, after all.

Does any part of you for even a second question that maybe they just had a dude screaming in the background and said he had a demon in him? You didn't actually see anything happen.

No, not at all. I felt God in what was happening, so unless they could somehow influence the Holy Spirit in some sort of lie they couldn't. Besides the pastoral team would not deceive the congregation in that manner.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

More power to ya then, I just don't get it.

 

[Outpost4]

The above Christian posters attend churches in a Pentecostal/evangelical tradition. I, instead, have gone mostly to Congregationalist and Methodist churches. There is no screaming or speaking in tongues in those denominations. The only time a Congregationalist screams in church is at the minister just before he's fired. In general, you also won't find great displays of emotion in Catholic churches and the more conservative Protestant denominations like Lutheran, Presbyterian or Episcopal. It doesn't make one way of communing with God better or worse than any other. It's just what trips your trigger.

When I've attended fundamentalist services, people ranting have always made me feel uncomfortable. I like a more staid service.

And I've found I can feel the Holy Spirit move me just as well during a quiet, sedate service, thank you.

If I can use an analogy, some folks like to go to a baseball game or a cricket match where the crowd is mostly subdued. Others like the raucousness of football. Same difference.

 

[T'Baio]

So how come there's no demon possessions in the other congregations?

As a matter of fact, how come there's no demon possessions outside of church communities? People speaking in tongues, and all? Why would the demons go directly to where they're most likely to be found out and where there are people who have the power to stop them?

Or are the schizophrenia meds somehow limiting the demons?

 

[Outpost4]

You might as well ask why is English food bland compared to Mexican food? Why do some couples show affection in public while others don't? Why do some people like scary movies and others avoid them at all costs?

You seem to have a "one size fits all" attitude toward religion. If God is universal, why can't he show the appropriate face to the appropriate individual? If God only spoke Chinese, I wouldn't understand a word he says. If he only spoke quietly, a Southern Baptist might miss his message. Some people enjoy histrionics. I don't. Why shouldn't God speak to me in a way I appreciate?

And there are demonic possessions outside of church communities. Ever seen anybody addicted to crack cocaine? That's a demonic possession. We just don't call it that but I clearly see that it is.

 

[Plecostomus]

Some of you will probably think I'm crazy, but I just feel compelled to share about this awesome experience. I was at church when I felt the holy spirit on my heart like never before, and seconds later I could hear a man in one of the backrooms having a demon driven out of him by God. I could just feel God in the church. The love that God gave me during that time was just amazing, I was just so overwhelmed from the sheer joy of what He was doing!!

Cool isn't it?

 

[T'Baio]

So in other words, people see what they wanna' see.

Gotcha'.

 

[Outpost4]

Yes, you got me.

You can always explain away religious faith with "gotcha" answers. 100% of the time. Something I'd see as a miracle you would see as a coincidence. It has to be that way. Otherwise there is no place for faith. And without that leap of faith, there is no free will. God wants us to love him. He doesn't demand it. If he expressed himself so obviously that even the strongest atheist was converted, then we'd all be forced to believe in God. That's not worship. That's slavery.

T'Baio, I'm not evangelical. I could care less who or what you believe in. If you want to believe that an Italian salami created the universe, it's OK by me. The only reason I was drawn into this thread was the ridiculing of Michael's religious ecstasy. My whole point, made way back up thread and repeated as recent as my last post, is that there are many pathways to feel that oneness with the universe. Back in college I discovered that 250 mics of good LSD can do the trick. Sitting on a mountaintop for the afternoon works equally well. And going to a Sunday service in a sedate, conservative church, singing a few songs, reflection on a couple of Bible passages, listening to a sermon and praying quietly for a few minutes can also get you to the same place.

 

[Mallory]

Nicely put Outpost4.

 

[T'Baio]

What's the difference between "religious ecstasy" and delusion?

Really, what's the difference between hearing a man possessed by a demon and believing a priest is casting that demon out, and believing the spirit of John Lennon has possessed my mother and I have to sing "Let It Be" for three hours before he is cast out?

 

[Michael Chris]

What's the difference between "religious ecstasy" and delusion?

The existence of the subject.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

So how come there's no demon possessions in the other congregations?

As a matter of fact, how come there's no demon possessions outside of church communities? People speaking in tongues, and all? Why would the demons go directly to where they're most likely to be found out and where there are people who have the power to stop them?

Or are the schizophrenia meds somehow limiting the demons?

What schizophrenia meds? Please explain.

 

[T'Baio]

What's the difference between "religious ecstasy" and delusion?

The existence of the subject.

In the examples, who are the subjects?

 

[T'Baio]

So how come there's no demon possessions in the other congregations?

As a matter of fact, how come there's no demon possessions outside of church communities? People speaking in tongues, and all? Why would the demons go directly to where they're most likely to be found out and where there are people who have the power to stop them?

Or are the schizophrenia meds somehow limiting the demons?

What schizophrenia meds? Please explain.

Please explain what you don't understand.

 

[Amaris]

Yes, you got me.

You can always explain away religious faith with "gotcha" answers. 100% of the time. Something I'd see as a miracle you would see as a coincidence. It has to be that way. Otherwise there is no place for faith. And without that leap of faith, there is no free will. God wants us to love him. He doesn't demand it. If he expressed himself so obviously that even the strongest atheist was converted, then we'd all be forced to believe in God. That's not worship. That's slavery.

T'Baio, I'm not evangelical. I could care less who or what you believe in. If you want to believe that an Italian salami created the universe, it's OK by me. The only reason I was drawn into this thread was the ridiculing of Michael's religious ecstasy. My whole point, made way back up thread and repeated as recent as my last post, is that there are many pathways to feel that oneness with the universe. Back in college I discovered that 250 mics of good LSD can do the trick. Sitting on a mountaintop for the afternoon works equally well. And going to a Sunday service in a sedate, conservative church, singing a few songs, reflection on a couple of Bible passages, listening to a sermon and praying quietly for a few minutes can also get you to the same place.

Nicely put Outpost4.

Wholeheartedly seconded. Beautiful post, Outpost4.

T'Baio, if you think Michael's off his rocker, you need to let me explain my own faith to you sometime.
The thing is, it harms no one and it works for me, just like Michael's works for him. It brings him joy and you don't have to pretend to care. What could be better?

J.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

So how come there's no demon possessions in the other congregations?

As a matter of fact, how come there's no demon possessions outside of church communities? People speaking in tongues, and all? Why would the demons go directly to where they're most likely to be found out and where there are people who have the power to stop them?

Or are the schizophrenia meds somehow limiting the demons?

What schizophrenia meds? Please explain.

Please explain what you don't understand.

I didn't see anyone mention the meds is all.