I grok Tuvok

[Rom's Sehlat]

I just realized today that VOY is the second Star Trek show to include a Vulcan in the main cast. I've come to realize how much I missed Vulcans in Trek. I really admired Spock in TOS.

Here, we have a full Vulcan! For some reason he integrated into the crew better. That might be a result of this being about 100 years later into the Federation. (Perhaps, in a sad way, he wasn't rejected because he wasn't a hybrid.)

In TNG all I remember of Vulcans was a random Vulcan nurse during one away mission. She checked some dying guy for a disease that was fatal. In DS9 we had a psycho Vulcan murderer and an arrogant Vulcan baseball player.

But Tuvok brings back the classic Vulcan logic! And this time, he's like 100 years old with teaching, command, and intelligence experience. He's no relatively young pup whose still not in contact with his parents over his decision to enter Starfleet.

<-- My first emoticon on TrekBBS!

 

[F. King Daniel]

I thought Tuvok a somewhat bland character. It annoyed me how badly he always treated poor Neelix.

BTW, that "nurse" in TNG was Dr. Selar, played by Suzie Plakton (K'Ehylar, Mrs. Q). The original plan, believe it or not, was to keep her as a recurring character and pair her up with Worf(). The character ended up in the New Frontier novel series as part of the Excalibur crew.

 

[exodus]

Too me what made Tuvok great was not only his tempered wisdom but his dry wit.
For a Vulcan, Tuvok was really funny.

I think what was great about the Tuvok/Neelix dynamic was that because Tuvok was prejudice toward Neelix, it showed that Vulcans aren't as higher evolved and intelligent as they believe. It showed they can have the same flaws and failings as humans which was further fleshed out in the ep. "Gravity".

 

[heavylids]

I for one loved how he treated Neelix. He truly was incredibly irritating.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Too me what made Tuvok great was not only his tempered wisdom but his dry wit.
For a Vulcan, Tuvok was really funny.

Definitely agreed. He had a great subtlety to his delivery that walked the line perfectly between neutral and condescending. And he'd often deliver a great zinger that would be perfectly objective and logical, but humorous for a Vulcan. He was also quite a badass for a Vulcan.
For these reasons he is my favourite Vulcan.

 

[exodus]

Too me what made Tuvok great was not only his tempered wisdom but his dry wit.
For a Vulcan, Tuvok was really funny.

Definitely agreed. He had a great subtlety to his delivery that walked the line perfectly between neutral and condescending. And he'd often deliver a great zinger that would be perfectly objective and logical, but humorous for a Vulcan. He was also quite a badass for a Vulcan.
For these reasons he is my favourite Vulcan.

Say Word!!

 

[antiquityscion]

I thought Tuvok a somewhat bland character. It annoyed me how badly he always treated poor Neelix.

BTW, that "nurse" in TNG was Dr. Selar, played by Suzie Plakton (K'Ehylar, Mrs. Q). The original plan, believe it or not, was to keep her as a recurring character and pair her up with Worf(). The character ended up in the New Frontier novel series as part of the Excalibur crew.

Well I guess they kind of did that; same actress, just different character.

BTW, Tuvok is AWESOME!

 

[RyuRoots]

I for one loved how he treated Neelix. He truly was incredibly irritating.

True that. I mean, this is someone who calls him "Mr. Vulcan", waves ferns in his face, then laughs and sings his culture's funeral dirge knowing what it is; and this is just a few minutes of one episode, not counting how much of a shithead he is over the course of the whole show.

I still think it's hilarious, if believable, that Tuvok's test of how much rage he can withstand before he flips out and murders someone was being stuck in a room with Neelix. Too bad that strangling was just on the holodeck.

I really love Tuvok; I thought he was one of the best characters on the show, and was woefully underused. He has a great wit, and was just generally a likable, entertaining character. He has some of the best moments in Voyager (such as the ending of Prime Factors, and his scenes with Seven and Janeway in Year of Hell), too.

 

[DoBa]

"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, Captain."

Tuvok was awesome. I enjoyed the contrast between him and Neelix.

 

[froot]

Too me what made Tuvok great was not only his tempered wisdom but his dry wit.
For a Vulcan, Tuvok was really funny.

Definitely agreed. He had a great subtlety to his delivery that walked the line perfectly between neutral and condescending. And he'd often deliver a great zinger that would be perfectly objective and logical, but humorous for a Vulcan. He was also quite a badass for a Vulcan.
For these reasons he is my favourite Vulcan.

Say Word!!

Thirded.

 

[exodus]

True that. I mean, this is someone who calls him "Mr. Vulcan", waves ferns in his face, then laughs and sings his culture's funeral dirge knowing what it is; and this is just a few minutes of one episode, not counting how much of a shithead he is over the course of the whole show.

Ironic how the writers themselves were seriously doing the same thing when trying to "respect" Native American culture.

Art imitating life, I say.

 

[sonak]

Tuvok is awesome. It was great to see a non-conflicted full Vulcan who was also well-acted(in contrast to T'Pol) as a main character on Trek.


I think they were going for a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Neelix/Tuvok, but it didn't work because Neelix was more annoying and less respected than McCoy.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Tuvok is awesome. It was great to see a non-conflicted full Vulcan who was also well-acted(in contrast to T'Pol) as a main character on Trek.


I think they were going for a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Neelix/Tuvok, but it didn't work because Neelix was more annoying and less respected than McCoy.

I didn't get a Spock/McCoy vibe from it.
From what I've seen, it seems McCoy is just always pissed at Spock, and Spock just acts like Spock.
Neelix likes and respects Tuvok, and wants respect back, and Tuvok is somewhere between indifferent and annoyed.
I know which dynamic worked better for me.

 

[Shatnertage]

Two of Tuvok's greatest verbal hits:

"During my three years on Voyager, I have grown to respect a great many of you. Others [sideway glance to Paris and Kim] I have learned to tolerate."

"Shall I have them flogged as well?"

And there's much, much more.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Two of Tuvok's greatest verbal hits:

"During my three years on Voyager, I have grown to respect a great many of you. Others [sideway glance to Paris and Kim] I have learned to tolerate."

"Shall I have them flogged as well?"

And there's much, much more.

My personal favourite is
"A wise precaution..... for a doctor".
(I'm paraphrasing, so I could be slightly off on that)

 

[sonak]

Tuvok is awesome. It was great to see a non-conflicted full Vulcan who was also well-acted(in contrast to T'Pol) as a main character on Trek.


I think they were going for a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Neelix/Tuvok, but it didn't work because Neelix was more annoying and less respected than McCoy.

I didn't get a Spock/McCoy vibe from it.
From what I've seen, it seems McCoy is just always pissed at Spock, and Spock just acts like Spock.
Neelix likes and respects Tuvok, and wants respect back, and Tuvok is somewhere between indifferent and annoyed.
I know which dynamic worked better for me.

hmmm, I see it a bit differently.

I don't think the idea is that McCoy hates Spock. They're friends, but they're the kind of friends that argue a lot. They secretly like each other quite a bit, they're just not as open about it as Kirk/Spock.


If Neelix respects Tuvok, he shows it in a strange way. He calls him "Mr. Vulcan," which is irritating and disrespectful, and doesn't seem to get what following the traditional Vulcan path means.


Janeway's respect for Tuvok comes across much better.

 

[RyuRoots]

I didn't get a Spock/McCoy vibe from it.
From what I've seen, it seems McCoy is just always pissed at Spock, and Spock just acts like Spock.
Neelix likes and respects Tuvok, and wants respect back, and Tuvok is somewhere between indifferent and annoyed.
I know which dynamic worked better for me.

Okay, no. He may like him, but he sure as fuck doesn't respect him. You don't respect someone if you refuse to call them by name and insult their heritage at every opportunity and insist he wants your company when he makes it very clear he doesn't. Someone of that sort deserves no respect, and I can only give Tuvok much more credit for not flushing Neelix out an airlock.

 

[exodus]

Tuvok is awesome. It was great to see a non-conflicted full Vulcan who was also well-acted(in contrast to T'Pol) as a main character on Trek.


I think they were going for a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Neelix/Tuvok, but it didn't work because Neelix was more annoying and less respected than McCoy.

I didn't get a Spock/McCoy vibe from it.
From what I've seen, it seems McCoy is just always pissed at Spock, and Spock just acts like Spock.
Neelix likes and respects Tuvok, and wants respect back, and Tuvok is somewhere between indifferent and annoyed.
I know which dynamic worked better for me.

McCoy was never pissed at Spock, he argued with him because he wanted to see if Spock ever "felt" anything or if Spock was as cold as the facade he put up.
Tuvok is annoyed by Neelix because he is what Neelix called him in "Learning Curve", "inflexible". Tuvok comes to respect Neelix in return because while Neelix is annoying, his advice in personal matters is of value.

Okay, no. He may like him, but he sure as fuck doesn't respect him. You don't respect someone if you refuse to call them by name and insult their heritage at every opportunity and insist he wants your company when he makes it very clear he doesn't. Okay, no. He may like him, but he sure as fuck doesn't respect him. You don't respect someone if you refuse to call them by name and insult their heritage at every opportunity and insist he wants your company when he makes it very clear he doesn't.

So when someone calls someone "My Ni**a", is that a sign of disrespect among friends? It's calling someone by their race and a sign of friendship.
Millions of people have friends of another race and get facts about their culture wrong. My origins are from the West Indies, yet I've had co-workers ask me if I grew up on soul food. Their intentions aren't to be disrespectful, they simply don't know any better.

 

[BlobVanDam]

I didn't get a Spock/McCoy vibe from it.
From what I've seen, it seems McCoy is just always pissed at Spock, and Spock just acts like Spock.
Neelix likes and respects Tuvok, and wants respect back, and Tuvok is somewhere between indifferent and annoyed.
I know which dynamic worked better for me.

Okay, no. He may like him, but he sure as fuck doesn't respect him. You don't respect someone if you refuse to call them by name and insult their heritage at every opportunity and insist he wants your company when he makes it very clear he doesn't. Someone of that sort deserves no respect, and I can only give Tuvok much more credit for not flushing Neelix out an airlock.

But Neelix never once did it disrespectfully. Every time he was being disrespectful was unintentional due to his own lack of understanding, but he always tried. When he called Tuvok "Mr Vulcan", he thought he was being respectful by addressing him formally, even though he wasn't, and the fact he called him by race was hilariously wrong. When he sung a Vulcan death march (or whatever it was), he was just taking an interest in Tuvok's cultural heritage to get to know him better. He didn't realize he was being disrespectful by singing the song at an inappropriate time.

His intentions were always clearly good, he just came across poorly, which is what made his attempts endearing imo. You have to see it from Neelix's POV and judge his intent. He thought he was being respectful and friendly. It definitely would have come across as disrespectful to Tuvok, but Neelix clearly respected the hell out of Tuvok, no doubt. The fact he failed is part of the relationship between the two characters, and something I felt was ultimately reciprocated in Homestead.

 

[RyuRoots]

That he never learned from any of the many, many, many, many incidents of annoying Tuvok makes him either a jackass or someone so damned stupid that he's far worse than a regular jackass.

And exodus, neither of those is really the same case at all. First of which, "among friends" is a key part of that first point which wasn't the case in VOY. If someone I didn't like to start with started calling me "Mr. Whitey", I'd have to fight myself pretty hard not to slap him silly. Secondly, as far as the food point, once you tell them that, they probalby won't ask you again. This is in contrast to Neelix who never learned anything from his interactions with Tuvok.