"Grimdark"?I've never seen one canon example of Star Trek being "grimdark."
Mirror Universe? Or is that too campy to be grimdark?
I don't understand the production design...
- Thread starter Arpy
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Mirror Universe? Or is that too campy to be grimdark?
"Grimdark"?
I think that's why everyone, including myself, is using it in quotations.
Campy Grimdark. It's its own genre (if it's not, I'm making it up right now) and it's closely related to Black Humor. So that's why I think arguments about what goes on in the Mirror Universe are so ridiculous. This is how I describe the Mirror Universe: looks like Michael Keaton's Batman, feels like Adam West.
"Grimdark"?
"The Best of Both Worlds", "The Drumhead", "The Wounded" from TNG alone. There's "The Siege of AR-558" from DS9, "Year of Hell" from Voyager, "The Enemy Within" and "The Day of the Dove" from TOS.
Star Trek can do dark themes with the best of them.
Honestly, I'm not sure why this matters. What I would want in real life, and what I enjoy in entertainment are completely different things. In real life, sure, I'd choose to sit in a comfy easy chair, in front of a fireplace, reading a good book, preferably with a cat on my lap, but that wouldn't make a very exciting TV show. The question is what works theatrically and provides a dramatic setting for engrossing stories.
Would I want to fight the Borg in real life? Of course not. Is "Q Who?" a great episode? Absolutely.
That's not what grimdark means. It comes from Warhammer 40,000, and was originally mocking settings that add tons of brutality, pessimism, explicit sex content, and ultraviolence in order to convince the teenagers who are most attracted to it that it's "mature" - not "kid's stuff." One important trait is it takes itself totally seriously - it's not attempting to be campy like the MU Trek episodes.
Yep, that unfortunately describes Discovery pretty accurately (minus explicit sex content, which it could have had more of instead of Boringham monologues)
I must watch different shows.
"Grimdark"?
DSC. Nomming people, severed heads galore, rape, graphic surgery, war crimes....
It’s like Brandon Braga’s Holodeck Fantasy withe safeties off.
None of those have dark themes. Closest there is seige. VOY did a couple of dark steps, and I hear ENT did. There’s one or two DS9 that are quasi dark...but still with the ‘hero’ nature to prevent it.
Discovery is much more "mama's boy plays heretic". Look at the way they handled the word "fuck".
Nope.
And we have seen LCARS in a couple shots in the trailers.
Americans don’t like naughty words, female nipples or bush. Hence the violence instead.
Hmm...I must not be an American...
Hmm...I must not be an American...
Ok...let’s just say...the overall powers that be aren’t fond of it. The people are very fond of it, but aren’t allowed it in most entertainment, but shooting in the face with guns is very wholesome apparently. Have the overall powers that be got over Janet Jackson’s nipple yet, or are they still receiving counselling?
No one asked my opinion on the matter.Ok...let’s just say...the overall powers that be aren’t fond of it. The people are very fond of it, but aren’t allowed it in most entertainment, but shooting in the face with guns is very wholesome apparently. Have the overall powers that be got over Janet Jackson’s nipple yet, or are they still receiving counselling?
However, I also believe that everyone would benefit from being nudists so what do I know?
I can't say I understand this particular critique. User interfaces change in real-life and in fiction.
In universe, Picard's Stargazer had movie-era panels in 2355. By 2364, 9 years later, Starfleet had switched to LCARS. It's been 18 years since we last saw TNG-era LCARS on screen. One would expect to see changes. In fact if we didn't see change, it would indicate a technologically stagnant universe.
TNG wanted to demonstrate that the the Stargazer was an older ship. The only reason the production used movie-era UI on the Stargazer was because they had the assets around. We're long past the era of film-negatives backed by lighting gels to represent computer panels. If the production had today's technology available, it is almost certain that they would've come up with a distinct UI for the Stargazer to tell the audience "this is old."
From the vantage point of 2399, LCARS is just as old as this:
Mac in 1987 v. Mac in 2020
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There was nothing sexy about tng costumes
Axanar is about a guy saving the Federation single handedly from klingons during a war and no one bats an eye, put a woman in the same situation and suddenly she's a Mary sue and star trek shouldn't be about war. Oh trekkies *laughs and shakes head*That's all well and good but there is real world considerations that balance my fan desires. So, yes, safe and familiar is what sells and Hollywood is more risk adverse. I don't need a marketing degree to observe trends.
Fans speak a good game but haven't demonstrated a willingness to purchase it. So, that's the rub.
I mean, fan films went down the darker more grittier path long before DSC got accused of being "grimdark." Fan films explored ideas of war, and trauma and loss. So, if anything, CBS went the path that fans supposedly wanted. And yet, there is this neverending litany of complaints of them missing the point of Star Trek...
