I don't understand the production design...
- Thread starter Arpy
- Start date
And TOS looked very 1960s. Right down to the beehives and miniskirts!
Yes, you would. You call it sterile? Compare it to the other ships that care for you not a lick? In the real world, if you had to live on a Federation starship for twenty years, hands down it’s a Galaxy Class starship. It doesn’t matter how much kewler you think another ship is. You’re not looking at it from the outside. You’re stuck in it, banging your knees on the oddly-placed duranium handrails and smacking your head on exposed piping.
Please do not speak for me. I know what I like, what environments I have lived in and what I prefer. And I have worked with a lot of beige and tan in my life, because it is considered "neutral" and "non-threatening."
The tans and beiges are not appealing to me from an aesthetic point of view.
And it has nothing to do with "kewl." That's putting words in to my mouth.
It’s not about “putting words in your mouth.” Which Federation starship would you spend twenty years on?
I'm not fireproof78, but I can't not say something about this. I'd want to spend 20 years on none of them. It doesn't matter how nice they make it, I don't want to risk getting potentially blown up whenever an enemy is encountered.
And when nothing's going on, and you're out in the middle of nowhere, you yourself can't go anywhere. You're surrounded by space. Today's equivalent is the Navy. My grandfather was in the navy. I was told that one of the songs they used to sing was "I joined the navy to see the world! And what do I see? I see the sea!"
In-universe, what Starfleet did in the mid-24th Century was ingenious. They made the military look softer and more appealing. You think you're living a life of ease. Then an enemy shows up, and then they do a bait-and-switch. What you thought you joined really turns out to be something else.
In "In the Pale Moonlight", Senator Vreenak says Starfleet is experiencing a manpower shortage. That makes perfect sense. Not just because of the casualties but because once civilians caught on to what Starfleet really is, they didn't want to join anymore. They love the idea of exploring. Getting killed while fighting the Dominion in a war that the Federation was losing for a while? Not so much. A huge missed opportunity on DS9 was not having an episode where Starfleet considered drafting people. That should've been an episode if things were really as bad as they described.
Last edited:
^ I feel like you’re making the same mistake DS9 made and are conflating today’s military with Starfleet. I see them as very different organizations.
Also, try answering the question: if you had to live on one of these starships, in the real world, for twenty years, which would it be? It would be difficult anywhere, but I think the comfortable open spaces and holodecks of the Galaxy Class stand it apart. Also, I imagine shore leave/etc make it bearable. But people left there homes for long stretches all the time historically, and I see it as much more doable In the 24th century, especially with lifespans stretching to near 150 years.
Also, try answering the question: if you had to live on one of these starships, in the real world, for twenty years, which would it be? It would be difficult anywhere, but I think the comfortable open spaces and holodecks of the Galaxy Class stand it apart. Also, I imagine shore leave/etc make it bearable. But people left there homes for long stretches all the time historically, and I see it as much more doable In the 24th century, especially with lifespans stretching to near 150 years.
My favorite version of the Enterprise is the TMP Enterprise. Inside and out. I love that ship. That's the ship I'd want to live on if I had to.
Constitution Refit or the Prometheus. Possibly Intrepid, but not 100% on that one.
And, it is putting words in my mouth by telling me what I prefer. And, when I deny it, I get told I'm wrong...it's very odd.
PIC's production design looks like a reasonable evolution from both the Berman-era aesthetic and modern sensibilities.
ST's production design has always been strongly influenced by the eras it was made in. This is nothing new.
In twenty years, when Star Trek: Series 17 is premiering, I've no doubt people will be whining on the holochron that it looks too 2040s and wondering why they couldn't just keep the classic design aesthetic of Star Trek: Picard. "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
ST's production design has always been strongly influenced by the eras it was made in. This is nothing new.
In twenty years, when Star Trek: Series 17 is premiering, I've no doubt people will be whining on the holochron that it looks too 2040s and wondering why they couldn't just keep the classic design aesthetic of Star Trek: Picard. "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
^^ and that’s the standard internet back & forth that‘s as disingenuous as it is tedious. Both are fine ships — the Prometheus heavily influenced by the Galaxy and basically a blank slate waiting for detailing that would likely make it as ultimately unlivable in the longterm as most other starships. The Constitution Refit though externally my favorite starship, is nowhere near livable for twenty years in whichever of the half dozen iterations of it that have shown up over the years. Is this opinion a decree from God? No, obviously, but come onnn.
Galactica was going for that reincarnated civilization esthetic. That was the point. Trek I don’t think is. Its just not considering anything too distant from the known present.
This is actually my problem with Dune...the idea that the year 10,000+ will look anything near what we would recognize is pure Fantasy. Tech develops exponentially. The year 2200 will look far more alien than most alien species we’ve met in Trek. Genetic-engineering, transhumanism, AI’s, uploaded consciousnesses, clones...if we don’t Jill ourselves off, it’s going to get freaky.
I'm not making a mistake, but I do have a different point of view. I suspect there's a deep philosophical divide between how fans perceive Starfleet. In TOS, it's the navy in space. In TMP, McCoy refers to how he was drafted. David Marcus in TWOK complains that scientists have always been pawns to the military. Does that mean I think Starfleet in TOS's 23rd Century was intended to be exactly the same as the Navy of the 20th Century? No. But it's similar. Just switch the sea to space. Kirk even once said in "Errand of Mercy", and I quote, "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth." And, of course, Picard is well known for being an accomplished diplomat, so Starfleet changed, at least somewhat.
As the frontier became less rough and tumble, Starfleet would have to change its image to keep its numbers up and expand. That's my head-canon reason for why they ditched the TWOK Uniforms and replaced them with something so radically different. I think they wanted to change, but found out over the course of TNG and DS9 that it wasn't always feasible.
Picard is a True Believer, though. He actually believes in what Starfleet, corrupt Admiralty and all, only claimed to believe in during the 24th Century. He's the embodiment of a particular type of Starfleet. He's virtuous, he's an explorer, he's a philosopher, he's a diplomat. He's everything that it looks like Starfleet no longer is in PIC. I think the driving force for Picard in this series is going to be: can he still be true to his beliefs even if no else shares them? That's what will make him stand out in contrast to everything else around him. We shouldn't feel like Picard's at home because he's not "at home". At least not at first.
At the start of the series, he'll have no "home" because even his supposed home (the Vineyard) doesn't feel like it. Home is where the heart is. It doesn't matter what it looks like because it isn't tangible. The ugliest, worst, dingiest place can be "home". The Sirena can become home because it's where Picard will think he has a real purpose again. Not some vineyard. And not some starship that doesn't exist anymore.
Last edited:
Ok, then if it is disingenuous then it is ultimately pointless.
Galaxy class looks sterile and uncomfortable to me...my opinion, not a decree from the Great Bird. Obviously, others will vary. Maybe the Galaxy is a majority's favorite. But, as with many opinions, there are minority and majority. I spend much of my adolescence studying the VHS of the Constitution Refit and Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise. It is the ship that is most familiar to me, most comfortable and most appealing. The Galaxy feels strange.
Believe me or not. That's my opinion.
Your interpretation of a corrupt Starfleet in which Picard is an outlier is not one I share. We saw an inordinate number of corrupt admirals-of-the-week because they were minor foils for our major series lead(s). I think the interpretation of the series cast/crew outweighs whatever else the writers might come up with weekly to have them overcome.
Last edited:
I'll take this to mean that you agree with everything else I said or at least can see where I'm coming from.
Whoosh! That was the sound of you completely missing the point of that BSG quote.
The point of the BSG quote was not to compare ST's design aesthetic to BSG's. The point was that these kinds of arguments about retaining old creative decisions vs going in new directions vs taking in influences from other works, have always been happening in fandom and always will. It is nothing new. That's all.
Oh, I dunno. Clothing aesthetics from 12,000 BCE may be different from ours, but I think time travelers from today or then would be able to at least recognize the basics.
Demonstrably not always true. Humanity existed for tens of thousands of years before leaving the Stone Age. The Iron Age and Bronze Ages lasted thousands more, relatively static. It's really only been in the last 250-500 years that we've seen exponential technological development, and I think it's questionable how sustainable that rapid pace of development is.
Yeah, but ST isn't based on modern futurists' predictions. It's based upon the conceits of 1930s pulp space opera translated into a visual medium mixed with Horatio Hornblower-style naval adventures.
Basics, schmasics -- we won't have limbs in 12000 CE.
And in previous incarnations, they've been more imaginative with the familiar bits that we do recognize. Ergo, my perplexity with this blander interpretation of the distant future. Of the future of TNG.
I'm looking forward to it, no doubt -- I've loved Chabon since Wonderboys -- but this is a head-scratcher. I'm actually a little glad that it doesn't look and feel like TNG, given the darker tones of this series. I'll enjoy this series like I enjoy every Trek one -- as an alternate universe, by its own rules. The distinctly different design will aid in that, at least.
Would you prefer the bulge accentuating one piece outfits of Bob justman?
I'd spend 20 years on the enterprise d from generations. I loved the warm and darker lighting choices over the antiseptic doctors waiting room vibe of tng.
