I don't think the writers ever got their heads round joined Trills

[You_Will_Fail]

Watching the show, I never got the impression that the writers really had a firm grasp on what it means to be a joined Trill incorporating the host and the symbiont. Does anyone else feel this way? It seemed to swing between Jadzia basically being Dax in a new body to Jadzia having the memories of other hosts.
I certainly couldn't wrap my head around it, and I don't think the writers ever did either which is probably why she received less attention as the show went on.

 

[Navaros]

I agree with you.

The Trills are a fascinating idea on paper, but when put into practice on-screen, they are incredibly dull.

To do the Trill concept in an interesting way would require the actors playing the Trill characters to depict multiple personalities...as opposed to what we actually got on the show, which was the Trill actors orating mind-numbingly boring stories about what the people in their past lives did.

I would add that this is an acting problem in addition to a writing problem. Pulling off a Trill properly would require a very versatile and great actor. IMO maybe de Boer could have done it with writing to back her up, but Farrell certainly would not be able to.

 

[Methos]

while i do find the Trills a fascanating species on Trek, i agree they could have been done better in practice...

Perhaps the same way they did the Tok'ra in Startgate, with the symbiote 'sharing time' with the host... so it could take over with a different personality from time to time, like a body-share deal.

M

 

[RoJoHen]

It seemed to swing between Jadzia basically being Dax in a new body to Jadzia having the memories of other hosts.

It's both, and that's why it's tricky to understand. Honestly, it's such an alien concept that I kind of like that we didn't get a full grasp of it. There's no way we could ever really understand what it's like to have something like that done to us.

 

[JarodRussell]

The problem I have with the Trill concept is: how the hell did they do it in the past? The merging between Trill and symbiont involves surgery. It's not a natural process.

 

[milo bloom]

The original TNG concept honestly makes a bit more sense: basically a parasite worm that uses the body to move around and do things, with the host not really having much say once joined.


If we're armchair quarterbacking though, another way to approach it would be to de-power the slug critter a bit, so it's a repository of memories that the host can access, but not always clearly, or in order of experience, and the more hosts the symbiont lives with, the more memories they gain but the harder it gets to sort through them all.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

The problem I have with the Trill concept is: how the hell did they do it in the past? The merging between Trill and symbiont involves surgery. It's not a natural process.

I agree, this is clearly not a process that evolved naturally on Trill, because the symbiont has to be added surgically. And who was the first person to say, "Hey, you know those worms that live in the caves underground... why don't we implant them in our stomachs and see what happens?"

The original TNG concept honestly makes a bit more sense: basically a parasite worm that uses the body to move around and do things, with the host not really having much say once joined.

I like the TNG Trill much better, and at first it seemed like they were going in that direction, sort of. Early Jadzia was not a "young woman", she came off as being very stoic and wise, the product of multiple lifetimes. But then she started to morph into free-wheeling party girl Dax and, aside from "Rejoined" the symbiont aspect to her personality all but disappeared.

Then when Ezri came along, the symbiont aspect became an afterthought. Ezri Dax was way more Ezri than Dax.

 

[Methos]

i'll agree that the writers didn't really have a hang on the joined aspect of Ezri, there were a few good episodes that dealt with her confusion afterwards, like where she went back to meet her family...

But i can't say that Ezri Dax is more Ezri than Dax, because we don't have much information on Ezri to begin with... the fact is Jadzia Dax might have been more Jadzia than Dax compared to Curzon, without a LOT of information about the joining aspect, we can't make assumptions about how much personality of the host remains after joining...

M

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

It was inconsistent and changed to reflect the needs of whatever story was happening at the moment.

It's both, and that's why it's tricky to understand. Honestly, it's such an alien concept that I kind of like that we didn't get a full grasp of it.

Interesting thought.

Perhaps it is like the Tok'ra, although without such a clear distinction between the host and symbiont and with the added personalities of the previous hosts. Depending on the situation, Jadzia Dax might be more Dax or more Jadzia, more Curzon or more Torias...sort of a gestalt being with each facet of the combined personality taking turns being more or less dominant than the others.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

while i do find the Trills a fascanating species on Trek, i agree they could have been done better in practice...

Perhaps the same way they did the Tok'ra in Startgate, with the symbiote 'sharing time' with the host... so it could take over with a different personality from time to time, like a body-share deal.

M

I don't even think Stargate really mined the potential of the Tok'ra, but DS9 definitely did not do more than scrape the surface of Trills.

The problem I have with the Trill concept is: how the hell did they do it in the past? The merging between Trill and symbiont involves surgery. It's not a natural process.

Maybe the process used to be a yucky Goa'uld type thing, but the humanoid and slug residents of Trill eventually came to a mutually beneficial accommodation.

 

[RoJoHen]

Maybe the process used to be a yucky Goa'uld type thing, but the humanoid and slug residents of Trill eventually came to a mutually beneficial accommodation.

I like to think of it as some crazy scientist's pet project gone awry.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

But i can't say that Ezri Dax is more Ezri than Dax, because we don't have much information on Ezri to begin with... the fact is Jadzia Dax might have been more Jadzia than Dax compared to Curzon, without a LOT of information about the joining aspect, we can't make assumptions about how much personality of the host remains after joining...

M

Here's my reason for saying that...

When we first saw Trill in TNG's "The Host" the symbiont was everything, and the host was just a body. As was the case when Odan entered Riker, Riker's personality was pretty much gone. And again when Odan entered the female body, the host's personality was taken over completely.

When DS9 first began, it seemed like they were going that same route. Jadzia had this very "Old Man" personality that you were led to believe she got from the wisdom, experience and age of the symbiont, specifically her previous host who was an Old Man. But as the show went on, her protrayal began to change. She was less Old Man and more Young Woman. The question is, is this the natural evolution of the host/symbiont relationship or is it just lazy writers who don't have handle on the character? My vote is for the latter.

And if that's indeed the natural progression of the Trill relationship, then in my opinion Ezri should start out very Jadzia-like and slowly evolve into her own persona. But she doesn't, instead the Dax symbiont seems to influence her actual personality very little. By the time the Ezri character is written, the Trill symbiont is nothing more than a set of jumbled memores that do little more than cause confusion. The all-encompasing Trill symbiont first described is gone.

And I think it's because the writers didn't count on us fan nit-picking them to death

Oh, and I do want to add that in hindsight, I like Ezri more than Jadzia. When the spoilers first hit the 'net that Farrell was leaving the show I was pretty annoyed, but that was more because Worf had to watch another woman he loved die than because I'd miss Jadzia. To that end, I was determined to not like Ezri. But after re-watching the series, Ezri's character is much more interesting than Jadzia. She got more development in 1 season than Jadzia got in 6. Jadzia was too "I know everything" perfect and therefore boring.

 

[Ln X]

The way I see it, this was a merging of two personalities. Dax (remember the symbiont has its own personality) had all these memories of its former hosts so was influenced by them, and then there was Jadzia herself who was this ambitious Starfleet officer who loved science. Somehow Jadzia found equilibrium with Dax, but it seemed Jadzia ultimately had the final say on what to do.

Dax influenced her decisions, thinking and emotions, but it was Jadzia that acted upon all of this. Sometimes she came off a bit Curzon-like, other times she came Jadzia like, and sometimes she came off Dax-like with all that wisdom. Finally there is the symbiont's own personality and that must interact with Dax, but whether the symbiont's personality is really affected by its memories of its former hosts is unclear.

In any case, I think the writers had some idea of what they were doing, but truth be told there are so many answers and interpretations of the connection between Dax and Jadzia that it is hard to get a decent answer regarding this connection.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

I don't even think Stargate really mined the potential of the Tok'ra

I think they tried to at first, but eventually it just became the symbiont speaking all the time, like they'd given up on the 'shared body' idea and made the Tok'ra non-evil Goa'uld.

 

[horatio83]

It seemed to swing between Jadzia basically being Dax in a new body to Jadzia having the memories of other hosts.

It's both, and that's why it's tricky to understand. Honestly, it's such an alien concept that I kind of like that we didn't get a full grasp of it. There's no way we could ever really understand what it's like to have something like that done to us.

Precisely. I think DS9 handled this main paradox of the Trill pretty well.

 

[Silvercrest]

Jadzia also seemed to have inherited the quirks and phobias of every one of her past lives. "If it's not too much trouble, do you think I could have the lower bunk? Curzon once fell out of a tree, and ever since then I..."

After inheriting nine lifetimes' worth of that stuff, she should be the Trill equivalent of Adrian Monk.