Does being completely indifferent count as an in-between? I don't know of many people who actually hate Chakotay, but I know plenty who just don't care about him.
i don't know how i feel about chakotay...
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I just watched both parts of Scorpion last night (and plan to watch them again today if I can find the time!) and I was sort of impressed with Chakotay there. I liked the fact that he expressed his own opinions and executed his own plans of action. Then I realized that he wasn't really acting , but was reacting to Janeway and Seven. Still, it was nice to see him not just being Janeway's yes man for a change.
I've always like him, he was very good looking but it annoyed me that he started a relationship with seven . But for more on his character he had a lot of potential but the writers just didn't do a good job for him towards the end series.
Actually, I think that was a stunt double. I remember thinking when I read it was a stunt double, "awww, man you killed the mood!!!!!"
I thought it was real too and my mouth almost dropped when I saw it!I believe it was in Star Trek:The Magazine that I read one of the writers say that it was very hard to write for Chakotay or Tuvok because they were essentially the same character. As a result, each got about half the use he deserved.
Thinking back, it seems like about half the times Janeway got the advice her XO should be giving her,it came from Tuvok instead.
Oh, and it did bother me when they had Chakotay make a gift of a Dreamcatcher, and explain how it works by basicly quoting the cards that come with the things in a store, which is only mildly mangled from the reality really.
He basically said it works as a filter, keeping out bad dreams.
As I understand it, the main thing a Dreamcatcher is supposed to do is to allow you to remember your dreams.
There is a technique called "directed dreaming", where it is possible for a person to control his own dreams. Apparently, the big key is to become aware that you are dreaming:usually in dreams you are not aware it is a dream until you wake up. But if you can realize it is a dream, you can then steer the dream to whatever you want: flying, sex with celebrities, whatever.
As I understand it, the idea behind the Dreamcatcher is that the dreamworld is every bit as real as the "real" world, and that in either of those worlds being able to remember what happened to you in the other gives you power.Just as being aware that you are dreaming can give you control over the dream, remembering your dreams gives you power in the waking world. And a Dreamcatcher is supposed to trap your dream experiences so you can remember them.
As I understand it, most of the true Celtic religious practices died out centuries ago. Most of what modern Celtic enthusiasts do is based on the writings of some guy who really didn't know what he was talking about. It is sort of like trying to re-create a religion based reading its entry on wikipedia.
Chakotay struck me as very like that: rather than practicing rituals that were handed down from generation to generation for centuries, he seems to be (or be the child of) someone trying to recreate the rituals of his ancestors based on poorly researched descriptions.
Thinking back, it seems like about half the times Janeway got the advice her XO should be giving her,it came from Tuvok instead.
Oh, and it did bother me when they had Chakotay make a gift of a Dreamcatcher, and explain how it works by basicly quoting the cards that come with the things in a store, which is only mildly mangled from the reality really.
He basically said it works as a filter, keeping out bad dreams.
As I understand it, the main thing a Dreamcatcher is supposed to do is to allow you to remember your dreams.
There is a technique called "directed dreaming", where it is possible for a person to control his own dreams. Apparently, the big key is to become aware that you are dreaming:usually in dreams you are not aware it is a dream until you wake up. But if you can realize it is a dream, you can then steer the dream to whatever you want: flying, sex with celebrities, whatever.
As I understand it, the idea behind the Dreamcatcher is that the dreamworld is every bit as real as the "real" world, and that in either of those worlds being able to remember what happened to you in the other gives you power.Just as being aware that you are dreaming can give you control over the dream, remembering your dreams gives you power in the waking world. And a Dreamcatcher is supposed to trap your dream experiences so you can remember them.
As I understand it, most of the true Celtic religious practices died out centuries ago. Most of what modern Celtic enthusiasts do is based on the writings of some guy who really didn't know what he was talking about. It is sort of like trying to re-create a religion based reading its entry on wikipedia.
Chakotay struck me as very like that: rather than practicing rituals that were handed down from generation to generation for centuries, he seems to be (or be the child of) someone trying to recreate the rituals of his ancestors based on poorly researched descriptions.
Withers
Captain
Chakotay struck me as very like that: rather than practicing rituals that were handed down from generation to generation for centuries, he seems to be (or be the child of) someone trying to recreate the rituals of his ancestors based on poorly researched descriptions.
I agree with that. It was exacerbated by his "vision quests." Rather than using the hallucinogenic ingredients his people used to induce the state of mind required he used technology in the form of that stone-thing. I actually heard the sound of eyes rolling (they were my own.) I'm not Native American but I think the idea of substituting something from the Earth for something man-made in order to reach a spiritual plane seems... wrong. I get that they couldn't just straight up show Chakotay getting high but c'mon...
-Withers-
I agree with that. It was exacerbated by his "vision quests." Rather than using the hallucinogenic ingredients his people used to induce the state of mind required he used technology in the form of that stone-thing. I actually heard the sound of eyes rolling (they were my own.) I'm not Native American but I think the idea of substituting something from the Earth for something man-made in order to reach a spiritual plane seems... wrong. I get that they couldn't just straight up show Chakotay getting high but c'mon...Chakotay struck me as very like that: rather than practicing rituals that were handed down from generation to generation for centuries, he seems to be (or be the child of) someone trying to recreate the rituals of his ancestors based on poorly researched descriptions.
-Withers-
agreed, i think a better way they could have broached that topic would have been maybe his tribe developed the ability to reach that state without the drugs or that in a certain state their brains released chemicals that mimicked the drug's influence, but to use technology just seemed weak.
"check out how modern indians are now! pass the engineered peace rock!"
I have not seen the episode with the dreamcatcher in it yet. I am glad that I have been warned about it. I can prepare my facial muscles for cringing in advance now and avoid cramps in my forehead.
Poor Chakotay. I really want to like him. I just can't stop feeling sorry for him.
Poor Chakotay. I really want to like him. I just can't stop feeling sorry for him.
Log onto any other board but this one and you'll find LOTS of Chakotay hate out there.
I agree with that. It was exacerbated by his "vision quests." Rather than using the hallucinogenic ingredients his people used to induce the state of mind required he used technology in the form of that stone-thing. I actually heard the sound of eyes rolling (they were my own.) I'm not Native American but I think the idea of substituting something from the Earth for something man-made in order to reach a spiritual plane seems... wrong. I get that they couldn't just straight up show Chakotay getting high but c'mon...Chakotay struck me as very like that: rather than practicing rituals that were handed down from generation to generation for centuries, he seems to be (or be the child of) someone trying to recreate the rituals of his ancestors based on poorly researched descriptions.
-Withers-
agreed, i think a better way they could have broached that topic would have been maybe his tribe developed the ability to reach that state without the drugs or that in a certain state their brains released chemicals that mimicked the drug's influence, but to use technology just seemed weak.
"check out how modern indians are now! pass the engineered peace rock!"
See my signature for my opinion on what Jeri Taylor did to Chakotay.
Why, Lynx? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start an argument. I'm honestly curious about what you consider Chakotay's good qualities. As I said, I'm trying to learn to like him myself, but so far . . . meh.
If a woman rapes him. Harvests him sperm, and then artificially inseminates herself.
He has the moral compass to medically need to raise the child and save it from his psycho bitchmonster of a mother.
That's a splendid and admirable character trait.
He's right up there with Ward Cleaver or Mike Brady.
He has the moral compass to medically need to raise the child and save it from his psycho bitchmonster of a mother.
That's a splendid and admirable character trait.
He's right up there with Ward Cleaver or Mike Brady.
yeah, but it wasn't his baby, it was that culluh dudes. but im only on season 3, maybe there is stuff i do not know yet.
Withers
Captain
I'm really glad I'm not the only one who was incensed by that particular aspect of his character. If ever there were an example of Trek writers being racially/culturally/historically insensitive through lack of imagination Chakotay's non-drug inducing miracle peace rock was it. That it even exists in the STU is still enough to make my guts churn a little. I guess it shouldn't really be a surprise though; he's a show that had a lot of difficult differentiating between technology and straight up magic.
-Withers-
It was his baby until a new producer took over between season two and three who changed the storyline, reversed the stroyline, but even with factoring in retroactively the NEW truth, Chuckles still responded and reacted to the outrageous situation with honor and dare I say it "nobility"? Oh goodness. I can't believe that i am really going to type the next bit: He Cowboyed up.
Worf on the other hand kicked his kid to the curb and his parents back on earth took up the slack.
Worf on the other hand kicked his kid to the curb and his parents back on earth took up the slack.
Withers
Captain
I wish Worf would have just eaten Alexander and been done with it. But yeah, that's a pretty good point you raise; in a Universe where examples of, shall we say, lackluster parenting are abound Chakotay decides to do the morally upstanding thing. He deserves some snaps for that.
-Withers-
Right, I had sort of forgotten about the alleged lil' Chakotay, Jr. back in the Kazon days. Chakotay definitely deserves some respect for trying to do right by his kid.
It occurs to me that Chakotay probably has many other redeeming characteristics, especially the sort that have to do with being a nice guy and having good ethics and so forth. But Chakotay's a quiet sort of character to start with, and when he's in a scene with the outgoing Janeway (and Mulgrew's intense stage presence), nobody notices the quiet guy.
I shall try to pay more attention.
Random complaint: I wish the poor dude had a first name!
It occurs to me that Chakotay probably has many other redeeming characteristics, especially the sort that have to do with being a nice guy and having good ethics and so forth. But Chakotay's a quiet sort of character to start with, and when he's in a scene with the outgoing Janeway (and Mulgrew's intense stage presence), nobody notices the quiet guy.
I shall try to pay more attention.
Random complaint: I wish the poor dude had a first name!