Agreed, they want play it completely safe (and dull) as possible, keep the characters static and pretty much remove the heart of the story along with it.
I do not like MCU films
- Thread starter Dales
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Agreed, they want play it completely safe (and dull) as possible, keep the characters static and pretty much remove the heart of the story along with it.
So you truly believe there was more heart involving Tony's part in the comics than in the movie? Honest question because the movie made me hate so much the fact both Tony and Steve were fighting, I hated to watch that (in all the good ways) while I never once felt anything towards Tony in the comics, save disappointment at how badly he was being written.
I'm going through the same thing with Captain Marvel in Civil War II. If they ever make that into a movie (they won't), I hope they completely rewrite it so that I don't hate her as much as I do now and actually make both sides sympathetic.
I'm going through the same thing with Captain Marvel in Civil War II. If they ever make that into a movie (they won't), I hope they completely rewrite it so that I don't hate her as much as I do now and actually make both sides sympathetic.
The movie at least made me think that both Tony and Steve had valid reasons for believing what they did and reasons based on what they've experienced in the movies so far. Tony has increasingly tried protect the world from itself usually due to something he created. His weapons were sold to terrorists, his Iron Man technology was used by others to make weapons, his AI because Ultron and even becoming a superhero created a chain of events that lead to a world we see in the MCU. Meanwhile Steve has seen how having some people make decisions on how to handle a crisis can lead to corruption and even having it used against him. The World Council tried to nuke New York to stop an alien invasion, SHIELD was slowly taken over by Hydra and the Accords quickly became more focused on capturing superheroes than dealing with the actual threat.
Both have valid reasons for seeing things the way they do and both have their obvious flaws. It's a difficult issue.
Meanwhile the conflict in Batman v Superman is that Batman sees Superman as an alien who has no concern for human life or the damage he is capable on inflicting on cities while Superman sees Batman as a criminal who has no concern for the lives of the criminals he catches. Superman seems to ignore that he has pretty much just killed every being he's fought himself and the fact he killed thousands of innocent people. Maybe this would work if it were the classic boy scout version of Superman, but not really in the DC Murderverse. Luthor manipulated both for reasons I don't fully understand and don't think the writers did either. He seems to be afraid of other aliens, but wants to kill the one alien with an emotional connection to Earth and humanity. He should see Superman as a possible ally and should want to work with him to fight these threats or at least control him to some degree. Instead he's jealous because that's who Luthor is supposed to be and he comes off as crazy and more like the Joker than Lex Luthor. But it all fails because Batman and Superman both love their mommas and they happen to have the same name, so they're instant best friends.
Both have valid reasons for seeing things the way they do and both have their obvious flaws. It's a difficult issue.
Meanwhile the conflict in Batman v Superman is that Batman sees Superman as an alien who has no concern for human life or the damage he is capable on inflicting on cities while Superman sees Batman as a criminal who has no concern for the lives of the criminals he catches. Superman seems to ignore that he has pretty much just killed every being he's fought himself and the fact he killed thousands of innocent people. Maybe this would work if it were the classic boy scout version of Superman, but not really in the DC Murderverse. Luthor manipulated both for reasons I don't fully understand and don't think the writers did either. He seems to be afraid of other aliens, but wants to kill the one alien with an emotional connection to Earth and humanity. He should see Superman as a possible ally and should want to work with him to fight these threats or at least control him to some degree. Instead he's jealous because that's who Luthor is supposed to be and he comes off as crazy and more like the Joker than Lex Luthor. But it all fails because Batman and Superman both love their mommas and they happen to have the same name, so they're instant best friends.
Yeah by far. I mean good writing for a character is not just about being likable or not. The comic Iron Man became extreme but it did fit his character and it drove the conflict in an interesting way. And both sides were sympathetic, stood their ground for their beliefs. You could root for Iron Man and disagree with his ideals or actions, and the same with Steve. Here they don't really want to hurt eachother in that fight there's not much feeling to be had. There's nothing to think about.
They do and it should be, and is in the comics, but it's not really in the movie imo. They leave both characters untouched without going into their flaws very much at all. In their big fight Tony is just avenging his parents and Steve is just defending Bucky who has already been established as innocent guy who was mind controlled. Neither character is cast in any sort of bad light.
Deaths happened from the result of Zod's battle, he didn't go out to kill them. He was doing the best he could to save people. There is a montage of him saving a ton of people in BvS as well. I don't see the problem there.
Yes Superman became humanized to Batman because of that moment. Which actually ties into the story rather than fighting over Superman's mind controlled best friend. But it is an easy target to make fun of and create memes about.
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The entire story hinges on the coincidence that both their mothers had the same name. If not, Batman would have killed him. That's extremely lazy writing.
I want good DC movies, not this crap they're slinging out. The material deserves better.
I want good DC movies, not this crap they're slinging out. The material deserves better.
The story doesn't hinge on that coincidence, there's 2+ hours of story there (in which both of the character's parents are brought up and connected to the story) yet people only mention the Martha moment for some reason. Nothing lazy about it.. Batman's parents are crucial to his character and bringing them up is a good reason for a change of heart in him.
It's a handwave. They just needed a reason for them to stop fighting so they could have another action scene. Why not have Batman learn from observing him and being a detective that Superman is trying to do good and that Luthor is trying to manipulate them into fighting? It would be true to the character and show an aspect of the character not usually shown in the movies. But no, they need Batman to fight Superman in an extended scene that contributes absolutely nothing to the plot or the characters. It's a forgone conclusion that they'll eventually work together, so the whole movie is really building up to them fighting a cave troll that escaped from Lord of the Rings. If you only want flashy action scenes with no purpose or logic, then by all means enjoy the movie. But I want a movie where Superman acts like Superman and Batman acts like Batman. I'll admit that they come really close to getting Batman right. Other than murdering people, he's probably the best Batman put on screen that isn't animated. But Superman is Space Jesus with 9/11 imagery which doesn't mix well.
I wish Disney would buy DC, then we could finally get a decent movie.
I wish Disney would buy DC, then we could finally get a decent movie.
Batman already knew Superman was trying to do good, and the movies goes very in depth on his reasoning for why he still wanted to kill him, giving the audience a lot to think about, relatively speaking.
The whole movie was building towards them fighting each other, it's not a very long fight and it does develop Batman. Meanwhile in Civil War there is no such equivalent, there's an airport brawl where the characters make joke after joke and then a final fight about Tony's parents.
That is the Marvel movies in a nutshell... and I have no turning my brain off to enjoy them, but Civil War had potential to be a much better story.
The whole movie was building towards them fighting each other, it's not a very long fight and it does develop Batman. Meanwhile in Civil War there is no such equivalent, there's an airport brawl where the characters make joke after joke and then a final fight about Tony's parents.
That is the Marvel movies in a nutshell... and I have no turning my brain off to enjoy them, but Civil War had potential to be a much better story.
I never understood this rivalry between Marvel and DC Comics. To be honest, I find it unnecessary. And I think today's audiences are getting too caught up in this so-called rivalry, thanks to the media, the studios and Marvel/DC Comics.
I've been watching films from both DC Comics and Marvel since "Superman" came out in 1978. Why do certain films from one comic book industry have to be better than those from another comic book industry? I've seen films from both that really knocked my socks off. And I've seen films from both that left me feeling disappointed.
So, for me to decide whether the Marvel films or the DC films are better is ridiculous to me. Regardless of who performs better at the box office, I'm the one who will decide which films I want to see and which ones I want to buy, regardless of whether they came from DC Comics or Marvel.
I know I have said this before, but if Marvel had allowed the third Captain America film to finish off the story regarding Steve's connection to HYDRA, Bucky, Sam and the Carter women; and allowed the Civil War arc to simply be an Avengers film, I would have been more satisfied.
I've been watching films from both DC Comics and Marvel since "Superman" came out in 1978. Why do certain films from one comic book industry have to be better than those from another comic book industry? I've seen films from both that really knocked my socks off. And I've seen films from both that left me feeling disappointed.
So, for me to decide whether the Marvel films or the DC films are better is ridiculous to me. Regardless of who performs better at the box office, I'm the one who will decide which films I want to see and which ones I want to buy, regardless of whether they came from DC Comics or Marvel.
I know I have said this before, but if Marvel had allowed the third Captain America film to finish off the story regarding Steve's connection to HYDRA, Bucky, Sam and the Carter women; and allowed the Civil War arc to simply be an Avengers film, I would have been more satisfied.
I don't think anybody is saying that one company's movies have to be better, but right now it's pretty much a fact that the Marvel movies are getting a better over all fan and critical reaction. Most fans would probably like both companies to release equally good movies, but the general opinion is that that hasn't happened. I'd personally put Suicide Squad up there with the Marvel movies, but I know I'm in the minority there.
I really think the rivalry tends to be blown out of proportion, I've seen a lot of people around here, and on some of the other geek media websites, who are big fans of both companies. I know I am, my two favorite superheroes are Batman and Spider-Man.
I don't decide which is better based on box office. I decide based on which I find more entertaining. Since Iron Man one, I find Marvel's films more entertaining, period. I have always found Marvel's comics more entertaining, although there are DC heroes I'm fond of.
The rivalry is pretty much fan driven, not media and not the studios. The studios have a good-natured competition going, but they're really in a "rising tide" situation. They will cheer for each other as long as all superhero films make money.
I pick a side because I don't work for either company and that is my right.
But that doesn't really mean anything. We don't even know the true reason behind the more positive reaction to Marvel's films at the moment. We really don't. Yes, there might be more people who believe that the current Marvel films are better. But I have encountered opinions that favor the current DC Comic movies. As for the critics . . . I stopped regarding their opinion as fact a long time ago. And even their opinions are dictated by personal tastes, or . . . possibly by other factors that we know nothing about.
In the end, the matter over whether Marvel or DC Comics make better films still strike me as irrelevant.
Really? Because I have been encountering a great deal of this rivalry nonsense from the media. And I don't know if this is their own agenda or if they are being encouraged by the fans or the studios. I've encountered some actors from the Marvel films engage in this rivalry as well.
It's just ridiculous to me because the box office returns on these movies will not personally affect me.
Considering how this whole Accords storyline began in the first place, I feel that it should have done so in an Avengers film.
There will always been a few people who like one group of movies,like the DC movies over the Marvel ones, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of people have liked the Marvel movies more. The whole reason I said fan and critic reaction is to show that this is more general and not just critics or fans. There have been a lot of movies critics loved but fans love, and the other way around, but with the Marvel and DC movies so far the opinions seem to be lining up pretty well.
I have seen some stories about the rivalry but that usually still goes back to the fans and not the companies.
I've seen some of the Marvel actors make comments about not liking BvS or stuff like that, but I just see that as giving their opinion on a movie, not "engaging in the rivalry". The few times I've seen them saying things like "DC sucks!!", it's been pretty clearly tongue in cheek, and not a serious comment.
At this point there's so much crossover between the companies, both in comic pages and on the TV/movie screens it would pretty fucking stupid to make real honest nasty comments about the other company. I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, but in the last few years there have been quite a few writers who have written comics for both companies at the same time, and in the last two years Kevin Tancheroen has directed two Flash, one Arrow, one Supergirl, and six Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episodes. The large number of AoS episodes is probably related to the fact his sister is one of showrunners. Gotta love that nepotism.
I have seen some stories about the rivalry but that usually still goes back to the fans and not the companies.
I've seen some of the Marvel actors make comments about not liking BvS or stuff like that, but I just see that as giving their opinion on a movie, not "engaging in the rivalry". The few times I've seen them saying things like "DC sucks!!", it's been pretty clearly tongue in cheek, and not a serious comment.
At this point there's so much crossover between the companies, both in comic pages and on the TV/movie screens it would pretty fucking stupid to make real honest nasty comments about the other company. I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, but in the last few years there have been quite a few writers who have written comics for both companies at the same time, and in the last two years Kevin Tancheroen has directed two Flash, one Arrow, one Supergirl, and six Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episodes. The large number of AoS episodes is probably related to the fact his sister is one of showrunners. Gotta love that nepotism.
This is still irrelevant to me. Why? Because it all boils down to preference. There are a lot of fans of the "Transformer" films. A lot. Which is why those movies generate a great deal of money. But whether the fans only love them or not, it is still all irrelevant, because it's all subjective. The only opinion that should matter is your own. Or my own. The old "majority rules" factor is meaningless to me, except in terms of profit.
The idea that we're supposed to be accept that the Marvel films are better, because film critics or a large number of movie fans say so is irrelevant. I don't accept this view, because I don't share it. I've seen a lot of comic book movies in my time. From my perspective, only the individual movies count. I don't care whether they're Marvel, DC Comics or whatever comic book company that the movie came from. And considering that art and entertainment are subjective in the end, what's the point in declaring that Marvel films are better or that DC Comics movies are better? It's a waste of time to me. And irrelevant. I think we all should concentrate on liking whatever movies that appeals to us and not bother on which company makes the better films.
Judging from what I have read and seen, I have a different opinion. But it's just me.
Iron Man took one look around the prison thing and kind of gave up on the whole idea so the conflict is effectively over as far as I can tell. Since it was all revealed to be part of the bad guy's plan the debate on oversight is probably going to be dropped like a hot potato.
If you care so little what other people think, then why bothere even coming onto message boards like this? The whole point of coming onto sites like this is to share our opinions, and to discuss them.
In a situation like this where one company is so clearly trying to mimic another company, and then by pretty every possible qualification, fan reaction, critical reaction, and box office, one seems to succeed to an almost ridiculous level, and the other can struggles to eve come close to that, it's pretty clear that one of them is doing something right that the other is not.
I've actually enjoyed the DC movies, but even I can tell that objectively, there is something that Marvel is obviously doing right that DC hasn't been able to find yet.
I'm keeping my opinion out of this, and looking at this purely from the reactions of fans, critics, and the box office. I'm looking at this purely from the popular opinion, not my subjective one.
How so? I don't remember seeing any cast members making comments directed at the movies being DC rather than Marvel.