I am excited about the Chevy Volt eletric/hybrid car.

[Meredith]

I hope the chevy Volt will be a success because it is more of a Hybrid than the prius anyways, A pious uses a heavy transmission and gearbox for the gas motor, as the gas motor is linked directly to the wheels, wheres the Volt only uses the motor to re-charge the battery/run the electric motor, kinda like a diesel locomotive, except it has a battery pack and can be plugged in to the wall at home. Can't do that with a Prius without an un supported un warrantied upgrade. Couple it all with a navigation system which is becoming a standard along with a 40 some mile range and the car becomes great little commuter car, and it also has the gas motor to fall back on with incase you need extra range due to unexpected trips. Also the gas motor on the Volt runs a constant rpm to power the generator which makes the generator more simple and the engine can be optimized for that RPM for economy, something you can't do with a direct drive Prius. With a Navigation system you can help keep the gas engine from running as often as well.

Consider this, you live 18miles from work, so you drive 36 miles to and from work. You put your route on the navigation system and you plug your car in at night. The gas engine normally kicks in when your charge reaches 20% on your battery pack. This is a "soft limit". When you reach 5% the GAS engine kicks on unconditionally. Battery pack has a 40 mile range on it.

Get in car to go to work, on the way to work your car notices you are going to work and makes a note of it. On your way home it notices you are driving home. 4 miles from home it would normally kick in the gas engine because your battery is at 20%, but instead your nav system politely asks you if you are going home, you press the big green touchscreen YES button and the care remains running on battery till you reach home and are able to plug it in. You reach home and your car has a 10% charge on it and you plug it in. The next morning you are at 100% and you have used no GAS for the previous day's commute.

Say the next day you need to make a detour on your way home and you drive a different route then your car will notice this by it's navigation system and will turn t6he gas motor on at 20% to ensure you have pleanty of juice to get home on.

Oh and the Volt uses modular components, so a gas and diesel volt or stiring engine volt will use the same electrical parts as well.


I just home GM don't kill it with mismanagement like they did the EV-1.

 

[farmkid]

I agree. I was first made aware of the Volt a year or so ago and was very excited about it. It's a great idea. And, as you mentioned, there is no reason it has to use a gas engine. It can use diesel, hydrogen, natural gas, propane, coal/steam (yeah, right), Mr. Fusion, zero point energy, or whatever energy source you can think of, assuming it's practical of course. It could even use a fuel cell to generate electricity directly instead of the engine/generator combo. I think this concept, coupled with solar panels on everyone's roof to recharc the car and run the house, would be a HUGE step toward solving our energy problems. Employers could even put solar panels on their building to provide energy to recharge their employees' cars as perk.

I love this idea because it provides all the benefits of an electric car, while using a smaller battery (weight savings, more environmentally friendly) and solving the deal-killing drawbacks of all electric cars.

 

[The Fatman]

I'm also extremely excited about the Volt, but I am extrememly concerned about pricing. Current estimates place it starting between 25 and 30 thousand USD, which is way, way too high to ever gain decent market penetration. As a small sedan, which only gets it's best benefit at under 40 miles without a charge, this car should be at absolutely no more than $20k, right around the same as the (much larger) Malibu.

 

[John Picard]

Too much electronic crap in that car. There was a site in Canada where a Pruis owner chronicled what a TURD that thing was. The computer would randomly shut the car off or restrict it to speeds of no more than 30mph (limp mode) as well as other various problems.

Compare that to Microsoft, creators of The Blue Screen of Death, and Ford Motor Company, an automaker that has literally perfected the engine fire, teaming up to combine the know-how of both companies into a line-up of vehicles. Nope. Just make something that goes from Point-A to Point-B and doesn't require a degree is Astrophysics to repair.

We are a long, long way from an alternative vehicle, so don't go getting all hot and bothered over the Volt.

 

[Meredith]

I'm also extremely excited about the Volt, but I am extrememly concerned about pricing. Current estimates place it starting between 25 and 30 thousand USD, which is way, way too high to ever gain decent market penetration. As a small sedan, which only gets it's best benefit at under 40 miles without a charge, this car should be at absolutely no more than $20k, right around the same as the (much larger) Malibu.

If it proves popular maybe the Pontiac version will be in your price range

I agree. I was first made aware of the Volt a year or so ago and was very excited about it. It's a great idea. And, as you mentioned, there is no reason it has to use a gas engine. It can use diesel, hydrogen, natural gas, propane, coal/steam (yeah, right), Mr. Fusion, zero point energy, or whatever energy source you can think of, assuming it's practical of course. It could even use a fuel cell to generate electricity directly instead of the engine/generator combo. I think this concept, coupled with solar panels on everyone's roof to recharc the car and run the house, would be a HUGE step toward solving our energy problems. Employers could even put solar panels on their building to provide energy to recharge their employees' cars as perk.

I love this idea because it provides all the benefits of an electric car, while using a smaller battery (weight savings, more environmentally friendly) and solving the deal-killing drawbacks of all electric cars.

I really thing that the hood ,roof and trunk of the car goof candidates for thin film solar cells that could at least run some of the acessories while the car is driving down the road on a sunny day, you could squeeze a few more miles rang out of the batteries and thus save several dollars on the gas per day of sunny day driving. Or at least run the fans for the A/C etc....

You know how hot your car can get during the day out in the sun.

Imagine parking your car in the park and spending the day in the park and when you go to go home your battery has gained a few extra miles so you don't need to use the gas engine on your way home.

At the very least the soalr cells could help run the computer, every little bit helps you know.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/solar-powered_t.php

These people did this but only use the solar when the car is running and gained anywhere between 6% and 10% more effrecency.

 

[gh4chiefs]

Too much electronic crap in that car. There was a site in Canada where a Pruis owner chronicled what a TURD that thing was. The computer would randomly shut the car off or restrict it to speeds of no more than 30mph (limp mode) as well as other various problems..

One guy has a lemon and you declare "alternate vehicles" dead? By that logic since my Prius has NO problems, then I can declare them the perfect solution?

All I know, my Prius runs flawlessly and I'm getting around 46-47 MPG on a pretty consistent basis. Might not be the perfect solution, but I'm guessing things would a lot better from a gas consumption standpoint if there were a lot more of them on the road and less SUVs and BIG pickup trucks.

 

[gh4chiefs]

I hope the chevy Volt will be a success because it is more of a Hybrid than the prius anyways,.

I'm hopefull of this too, but I'm concerned about the effect on the electrical grids which are already taxed pretty heavily in places like CA. And whether it uses a gas engine or you plug it in, that energy has to come from somewhere. And right now, we don't have it unfortunately.

 

[John Picard]

Too much electronic crap in that car. There was a site in Canada where a Pruis owner chronicled what a TURD that thing was. The computer would randomly shut the car off or restrict it to speeds of no more than 30mph (limp mode) as well as other various problems..

One guy has a lemon and you declare "alternate vehicles" dead? By that logic since my Prius has NO problems, then I can declare them the perfect solution?

All I know, my Prius runs flawlessly and I'm getting around 46-47 MPG on a pretty consistent basis. Might not be the perfect solution, but I'm guessing things would a lot better from a gas consumption standpoint if there were a lot more of them on the road and less SUVs and BIG pickup trucks.

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

 

[Garrovick]

My life style would allow me to own a vehilce like that. My entire "day to day world" is about 1.5 miles in diameter.

 

[Brolan]

Too much electronic crap in that car. There was a site in Canada where a Pruis owner chronicled what a TURD that thing was. The computer would randomly shut the car off or restrict it to speeds of no more than 30mph (limp mode) as well as other various problems..

One guy has a lemon and you declare "alternate vehicles" dead? By that logic since my Prius has NO problems, then I can declare them the perfect solution?

All I know, my Prius runs flawlessly and I'm getting around 46-47 MPG on a pretty consistent basis. Might not be the perfect solution, but I'm guessing things would a lot better from a gas consumption standpoint if there were a lot more of them on the road and less SUVs and BIG pickup trucks.

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

Allow me to confirm that the Prius runs flawlessly and gets that mileage at a minimum. I've gotten over 50 MPG using the Hyper-mileage techniques like Pulse and Glide.

 

[farmkid]

I hope the chevy Volt will be a success because it is more of a Hybrid than the prius anyways,.

I'm hopefull of this too, but I'm concerned about the effect on the electrical grids which are already taxed pretty heavily in places like CA. And whether it uses a gas engine or you plug it in, that energy has to come from somewhere. And right now, we don't have it unfortunately.

I've thought of that, too. That's part of the reason I mentioned the idea of coupling it with solar panels on everyone's house and possibly on people's workplace as well. This kind of distributed energy generation capability will allow the current grid to supply the supplemental energy needed without being overloaded. Without solar panels on most homes (or windmills where appropriate), the electrical grid will require major upgrades to handle the demand as electric cars like the Volt become more common.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Electric and Hybrid are the near-term winners in the quest for owner economy.

I'm still incredulous about those touting hydrogen fueled vehicles. Yeah the vehicle burns green, but an economical and environmentally friendly method of producing huge amounts of the stuff is yet to be seen.

Guess it all hinges on more nuke plants, which'd be just fine with me.

AG

 

[gh4chiefs]

Too much electronic crap in that car. There was a site in Canada where a Pruis owner chronicled what a TURD that thing was. The computer would randomly shut the car off or restrict it to speeds of no more than 30mph (limp mode) as well as other various problems..

One guy has a lemon and you declare "alternate vehicles" dead? By that logic since my Prius has NO problems, then I can declare them the perfect solution?

All I know, my Prius runs flawlessly and I'm getting around 46-47 MPG on a pretty consistent basis. Might not be the perfect solution, but I'm guessing things would a lot better from a gas consumption standpoint if there were a lot more of them on the road and less SUVs and BIG pickup trucks.

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

Call BS all you want, that's what I get. I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. Not at all.

And who said anything about the enviromental impact? All I said was mine runs flawlessly and I get good gas mileage. Period. Trust me, if you knew me, you would know that I am MOST DEFINITELY NOT an enviromentalist.

I'm going to refrain from saying anying further, but DO NOT call me a liar again.

 

[TerriO]

All I know, my Prius runs flawlessly and I'm getting around 46-47 MPG on a pretty consistent basis. Might not be the perfect solution, but I'm guessing things would a lot better from a gas consumption standpoint if there were a lot more of them on the road and less SUVs and BIG pickup trucks.

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

Call BS all you want, that's what I get. I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. Not at all.

g4chiefs, I don't believe he was calling you a liar. I believe he was saying he doesn't find your mileage data claims credible. There's a big difference there.

How about presenting us with some data to back up your 46-47MPG claims, that way John_Picard can take that data and assimilate it into the way he looks at the Prius going forward?

Tell you what. Here are a couple of links to help out:

From consumeraffairs.com:

The Toyota Prius is the #1 gas saver on the road according to the government's new top 10 fuel economy list. Of the ten most efficient vehicles, five were made by Toyota.

The 2007 Prius tops the list with 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 mpg on the highway. Many Prius owners, however have disputed the government mileage numbers from previous years and have reported to ConsumerAffairs.com that average fuel economy for the hybrid is approximately 43 miles to a gallon.

From hybridcars.com, someone posting the gas mileage they actually get on their Prius:

Most reviewers keep listing Prius mileage as 60
> town,
51 highway.
I've been driving 40 mpg cars for 20 years
> and am very
> careful how I drive to maximize mileage. I have
> driven my 2005 Prius
> for 15,000 miles. Here's what they actually do.
>
> Town--36
> Highway--48
>
> My 15,000 mile averate is 46.5

John_Picard, I hope you didn't intend to call g4chiefs a liar, but just to ask for more data to back up his claim. That's the way I'm going to interpret it. If I'm wrong, I hope you'll have the decency to apologize.

 

[gh4chiefs]

g4chiefs[/b], I don't believe he was calling you a liar. I believe he was saying he doesn't find your mileage data claims credible. There's a big difference there.

I don't see the difference at all. I told him what I'm getting on my car. I'm not making claims about what any other Prius is getting, I'm only stating what MY car is getting. And him calling BS on my statement is the same as him calling me a liar whether you think it is or not. He doesn't know me, and he no right to call BS on a statement that he has absolutely no idea about.

I'm telling you what my computer is showing me that I'm getting and I don't know how to provide you data to that effect other than me telling you. I will admit to making one error though. I said it was consistent but that's not true as it does go down during the cold weather to low 40s and during really cold weather, especially driving into a cold wind, it can drop significantly. But during the spring weather, I have been getting highway mileage consistently in the high 40's and occaisonal I'll get over 50 in a single trip. You can either choose to believe me or not, but that's the truth whether John Picard wants to believe or not.

 

[TerriO]

g4chiefs[/b], I don't believe he was calling you a liar. I believe he was saying he doesn't find your mileage data claims credible. There's a big difference there.

I don't see the difference at all. I told him what I'm getting on my car. I'm not making claims about what any other Prius is getting, I'm only stating what MY car is getting. And him calling BS on my statement is the same as him calling me a liar whether you think it is or not. He doesn't know me, and he no right to call BS on a statement that he has absolutely no idea about.

Would it help if I phrased it that there is a difference between saying that you don't think a particular collection of data can be considered credible and saying someone's lying? One is questioning the information given, the other is a personal attack against the person giving the information. I should hope if John_Picard's intent was to call you a liar, he'll be man enough to admit it and apologize for that.

I'm telling you what my computer is showing me that I'm getting and I don't know how to provide you data to that effect other than me telling you. I will admit to making one error though. I said it was consistent but that's not true as it does go down during the cold weather to low 40s and during really cold weather, especially driving into a cold wind, it can drop significantly. But during the spring weather, I have been getting highway mileage consistently in the high 40's and occaisonal I'll get over 50 in a single trip. You can either choose to believe me or not, but that's the truth whether John Picard wants to believe or not.

And, John_Picard, now you have your data to back up the mileage claims.

 

[Alaedhros]

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

Call BS all you want, that's what I get. I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. Not at all.

g4chiefs, I don't believe he was calling you a liar. I believe he was saying he doesn't find your mileage data claims credible. There's a big difference there.

With all due respect, Terri, I believe that you are mistaken and that gh4chiefs is correct--JP was calling him a liar. The reason I am so certain is because, in a thread in Misc. about a month ago where I stated similar facts to the ones that gh4chiefs has made here, JP also told me that I wrong (and implied, it seemed to me, it was intentional). Of course, then, as now, JP did not present any reason why I was wrong. Given that incident and this one, I really do not see any alternative but to believe what I do...

 

[David cgc]

But take into account the smelting involved in making the batteries, and the materials that were trucked across the ocean to various factories, and your "eco minded" vehicle is not.

I've heard about this before. Point the first- nickel (the metal to which you obliquely refer), as surprising as this may sound, is not produced exclusively for hybrid car batteries. In fact, if I remember right (and I know I do, because I just checked), Toyota gets all of their nickel from one plant in Canada, purchasing one half of one percent of that plant's annual nickel production. (Source) And that half-percent isn't just going to hybrid batteries, but all aspects of Toyota's automotive production, which leads to...

Point the second- Nickel, as you may be aware, is an element used in the construction of steel, which is an alloy used in the construction of most every car out there. The average (as in, statistical mean) car contains 50 pounds of nickel within its steel. A Prius's hybrid battery pack uses 22 pounds. I'm quite certain that the gross amount of nickel used in a Prius is equal to or, more likely, less than that of heavier vehicles.

Point the third, there's nothing special about component parts being shipped from one factory to another. Unlike the insinuation that the Prius is the only device made by the hands of man that uses the toxic, environment-killing metal known as nickel, this doesn't even set it apart as especially hurtful to anyone.

Oh, and I call BS on your mileage claims.

Do you want that I should begin documenting the milage on my own Prius? Since, apparently, the word of a Prius owner isn't good enough (unless it's a single irate blogger), maybe I can photograph the odometer every time I fill up next to the gas receipt and the front page of that day's newspaper. And then get it notarized.

 

[TerriO]

Call BS all you want, that's what I get. I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. Not at all.

g4chiefs, I don't believe he was calling you a liar. I believe he was saying he doesn't find your mileage data claims credible. There's a big difference there.

With all due respect, Terri, I believe that you are mistaken and that gh4chiefs is correct--JP was calling him a liar. The reason I am so certain is because, in a thread in Misc. about a month ago where I stated similar facts to the ones that gh4chiefs has made here, JP also told me that I wrong (and implied, it seemed to me, it was intentional). Of course, then, as now, JP did not present any reason why I was wrong. Given that incident and this one, I really do not see any alternative but to believe what I do...

Having just read the thread in question, you are correct, Alehedros.

John_Picard, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I was mistaken in doing that, obviously. Next time you want to call someone's data "BS" or imply (outright or not) that they're lying, please provide some concrete data to back your assertion. I'm not going to warn you on this one, but I am going to give you a strong friendly.

g4chiefs, in light of this new information, I would like to apologize for giving John_Picard the benefit of the doubt. I hope you can understand why I had to do that from the beginning.

Alehedros, thank you for pointing out the secondary information. I appreciate it.

 

[Alaedhros]

^ Damn, how the hell did you find that thread?! I didn't see a way to search just threads that I had posted in, else I'd have linked it for you. I feel bad that you had to dig it up yourself...