I’ll just go ahead and say it: I don’t like Star Trek.

[Butters]

Re: I’ll just go ahead and say it: I don’t like Star Trek.

I wouldn't be so sure, due to the box office take. If the margins end up being slim, yeah, they are going to try and rethink things. If it ends up being a massive success like it looks it will be, do not expect anything different. Your faith in JJ changing the depth of the sequel is likely misplaced and just that, faith. Any consideration of the facts and previous history of film would suggest that a successful formula is utilized until the profit margin slims up some, and then we have a change in formula.

Dude, I've got faith... faith of the heart...

Aren't they bringing in another writer to join Orci and Kurzman? A Lost scribe? Talk about depth...

Again, you are missing the time spent on character introductions, which was expertly spent, but took away from a more rewarding story per se.

Yeah, human faith is a dangerous and often detrimental force. I don't like it, and I would prefer people use their heads and not their hearts to make decisions.

That being said, they wasted a lot of time on a lot of different things in the movie. The pace was intentional, as the movie was not built to withstand even a modicum of scrutiny. Why? Because it is a popcorn action film and made for action and cheap thrills. Does it work? Not on I, but I appear to be in the minority. Most people seem very pleased with this action flick. However, and you have not yet addressed this, why would they change an wildly successful formula? They have the majority, and the box office takes to prove it, why would they make anything different? Time spent on character introductions could very well be spent on, I don't know, action sequences or some small service to the character interaction. I don't see the overall structure of the movie changing very much.

To which characters were we not introduced? Granted, we didn't enjoy tea and crumpets with any of them, but they all got their hello moment.

It is possible to labour a point, like a lengthy sentimental introduction sequence would have done. I'm starting to get the impression that its this navel-gazing that some fans have confused with intellectualism. Subtlety was never one of treks strong points.

 

[donners22]

I agree the McCoy portrayal was good. I didn't have a problem with him sneaking Kirk in. It was a classic McCoy-type move, the dialog was right on. That's exactly what McCoy would do, he'd use his medical seniority. I especially like when he retorts back to the officer, can't remember the exact wording, "At ease yourself."

"As YOU were!"

On a side note, why was the CMO who died not Boyce? I'm sure they said a different name, where it would have been easier to nod to canon.

 

[TheGodBen]

Again, you are missing the time spent on character introductions, which was expertly spent, but took away from a more rewarding story per se.

You do realise that every (non-sequel) movie ever made has had to introduce the characters and still have a plot, right? If you went to see any other movie which screwed up the plot as much as this movie would you honestly let it off the hook because they had to spend time introducing the characters at the beginning?

The problem was not the time spent on character-building, the movie actually needed more of that, the problem was the time wasted on pointless action scenes such as the monster chase. If they had cut five minutes of that and used the time to smooth out the story then this movie could have been good, but they didn't do that and what we have is a generic action flick.

How many people in this thread have you seen criticise this movie for spending too much time on the character details?

What I don't get is that, some of you guys would prefer it to be more like some episodes, where you don't see many space ships, there is very little action, there is a ton of dialogue, and there is a lack of good special effects.

Strawman alert!

Strawman alert!

Strawman alert!

 

[Silent_Bob]

Again, you are missing the time spent on character introductions, which was expertly spent, but took away from a more rewarding story per se.

You do realise that every (non-sequel) movie ever made has had to introduce the characters and still have a plot, right? If you went to see any other movie which screwed up the plot as much as this movie would you honestly let it off the hook because they had to spend time introducing the characters at the beginning?

The problem was not the time spent on character-building, the movie actually needed more of that, the problem was the time wasted on pointless action scenes such as the monster chase. If they had cut five minutes of that and used the time to smooth out the story then this movie could have been good, but they didn't do that and what we have is a generic action flick.

How many people in this thread have you seen criticise this movie for spending too much time on the character details?

I decided to do some timing when viewing the movie again, to see if GodBen was correct in saying time was wasted. Yes, i'm just that sad.

Combined, the pointless Car and monster chase scenes took up 4 mins 57 seconds. Now this doesnt seem like a lot, why its only five minutes of screen time, nothing major. Except when you consider the following fact:

Nero has only 5 mins 31 seconds of screentime. The villain of the film, Spock's nemesis, only recieves 34 more seconds of screen time than Nokia and Clover jnr. Would it not have made more sense to devote those minutes wasted on product placement and excuses for more toys to developing Nero as a character instead?

 

[Falcor5]

I decided to do some timing when viewing the movie again, to see if GodBen was correct in saying time was wasted. Yes, i'm just that sad.

Combined, the pointless Car and monster chase scenes took up 4 mins 57 seconds. Now this doesnt seem like a lot, why its only five minutes of screen time, nothing major. Except when you consider the following fact:

Nero has only 5 mins 31 seconds of screentime. The villain of the film, Spock's nemesis, only recieves 34 more seconds of screen time than Nokia and Clover jnr. Would it not have made more sense to devote those minutes wasted on product placement and excuses for more toys to developing Nero as a character instead?

Wow I seriously did not realize Nero was only in the movie for 5 minutes! Thats interesting. Does anyone have a comparison as to how long other past Trek movie villains were in their movies? 5 minutes seems so short I honestly thought he was in the movie more than that!

 

[Silent_Bob]

Nero has only 5 mins 31 seconds of screentime. The villain of the film, Spock's nemesis, only recieves 34 more seconds of screen time than Nokia and Clover jnr. Would it not have made more sense to devote those minutes wasted on product placement and excuses for more toys to developing Nero as a character instead?

Wow I seriously did not realize he was only in the movie for 5 minutes! Thats interesting.

And for almost half of those five minutes, he's not saying anything. Just looking menacing.

 

[Praetor]

"As YOU were!"

God, I can hear it in my head.

On a side note, why was the CMO who died not Boyce? I'm sure they said a different name, where it would have been easier to nod to canon.

Perhaps they didn't want to kill off someone relatively important (well, to Pike, in "The Cage" anyway) off-screen? For myself, I can say I liked Boyce and I'm glad it wasn't him killed this way. Doctor Piper, on the other hand...

 

[TheGodBen]

Nero has only 5 mins 31 seconds of screentime.

Whoa, now that is shocking. I would have thought he was in at least 15 minutes, but only 5?

I'm sad too, so I decided to time the dinner scene between Picard and Shinzon in Nemesis and that clocked up to 5 minutes and 25 seconds. For those of you who have erased that whole film from your memory, that scene was almost entirely back-story and character development for Shinzon; Shinzon had more development in one scene than Nero had in an entire movie. This is official now, Shinzon is a better developed villain than Nero, unlikely though that might be.

 

[Silent_Bob]

I started timing whenever any part of him appeared on-screen. So 5 mins 31 includes everything from shots of his hands smacking Kirk around, to the back of his head when he is looking at a viewscreen, so i was pretty generous with what i counted as screentime. I even added a few seconds for an unclear bald head that may or may not have been Nero.

Really is not enough time to establish a credible villain.One problem with going with Khan for a sequel is i have a feeling that the writers will be lazy and rely on our pre-knowledge of Khan to build him up as a threat, and we will end up with another 5 minute wonder.

 

[Ghrakh]

What I don't get is that, some of you guys would prefer it to be more like some episodes, where you don't see many space ships, there is very little action, there is a ton of dialogue, and there is a lack of good special effects.

Strawman alert!

Strawman alert!

Strawman alert!

To be honest, that pretty much describes all the episodes (apart from the FX, for the time they were fine but the point was that there just weren't that many).

Yet, TOS is immortal despite that. It's sad that some people think "fixing those flaws" as it were will make for better entertainment...

 

[Gepard]

I'm sad too, so I decided to time the dinner scene between Picard and Shinzon in Nemesis and that clocked up to 5 minutes and 25 seconds. For those of you who have erased that whole film from your memory, that scene was almost entirely back-story and character development for Shinzon; Shinzon had more development in one scene than Nero had in an entire movie. This is official now, Shinzon is a better developed villain than Nero, unlikely though that might be.

Holy shit. I wonder how much Bana got paid for his role?

 

[Falcor5]

I'm sad too, so I decided to time the dinner scene between Picard and Shinzon in Nemesis and that clocked up to 5 minutes and 25 seconds. For those of you who have erased that whole film from your memory, that scene was almost entirely back-story and character development for Shinzon; Shinzon had more development in one scene than Nero had in an entire movie. This is official now, Shinzon is a better developed villain than Nero, unlikely though that might be.

Holy shit. I wonder how much Bana got paid for his role?

Ya if the screen time is really only 5 minutes for Nero I would not be surprised if Shinzons Viceroy played by Ron Perlman had more screen time then Nero. Which is stunning to me considering Nero is the main Villain of Trek XI and the Viceroy is Shinzon's assistant.

 

[exodus]

I started timing whenever any part of him appeared on-screen. So 5 mins 31 includes everything from shots of his hands smacking Kirk around, to the back of his head when he is looking at a viewscreen, so i was pretty generous with what i counted as screentime. I even added a few seconds for an unclear bald head that may or may not have been Nero.

Really is not enough time to establish a credible villain.One problem with going with Khan for a sequel is i have a feeling that the writers will be lazy and rely on our pre-knowledge of Khan to build him up as a threat, and we will end up with another 5 minute wonder.

His planet was destroyed & his species wipped out. That's an ultimate extreme as it is, what more motivation is required to be a villain under those circumtances? Most people are ready to kill after loosing just one family member to a murder.

 

[Overgeeked]

His planet was destroyed & his species wipped out. That's an ultimate extreme as it is, what more motivation is required to be a villain under those circumtances? Most people are ready to kill after loosing just one family member to a murder.

There's nothing (at all) to suggest that the Romulan species was wiped out. It would make even less sense than the near loss of all Vulcans. These two peoples have been in space since at least the 3rd century (real world Earth calendar). I can't seem to find a citation for how long they've had warp. It's beyond stupid to believe that in well over 2000 years of space exploration they've never once settled a colony off their home planet. There's a crap load more Vulcans out there in ST11, and Romulans in the future alternate timeline.

 

[Borgminister]

But his wife and child and planet were.

 

[RoJoHen]

His planet was destroyed & his species wipped out. That's an ultimate extreme as it is, what more motivation is required to be a villain under those circumtances? Most people are ready to kill after loosing just one family member to a murder.

There's nothing (at all) to suggest that the Romulan species was wiped out.

Wiped out enough. The homeworld was destroyed. Like Vulcans at the end of this movie, Romulans in the original timeline are an endangered species.

 

[Overgeeked]

His planet was destroyed & his species wipped out. That's an ultimate extreme as it is, what more motivation is required to be a villain under those circumtances? Most people are ready to kill after loosing just one family member to a murder.

There's nothing (at all) to suggest that the Romulan species was wiped out.

Wiped out enough. The homeworld was destroyed. Like Vulcans at the end of this movie, Romulans in the original timeline are an endangered species.

Only if you swallow the bs notion that in over 2000 years of space exploration not a single colony of significant size, or other Class M planet(s), were settled.

 

[Falcor5]

There's nothing (at all) to suggest that the Romulan species was wiped out.

Wiped out enough. The homeworld was destroyed. Like Vulcans at the end of this movie, Romulans in the original timeline are an endangered species.

Only if you swallow the bs notion that in over 2000 years of space exploration not a single colony of significant size, or other Class M planet(s), were settled.

Plus its called the Romulan Empire. That suggests they are not all on just one planet. Was all of the Roman empire just in Rome? Nope it was spread out over great distances. Still obviously the destruction of Romulas would have HUGE effects on the "Prime" 24th century universe but I dont think that Romulans would be near extinction.

 

[TheGodBen]

His planet was destroyed & his species wipped out. That's an ultimate extreme as it is, what more motivation is required to be a villain under those circumtances? Most people are ready to kill after loosing just one family member to a murder.

Oh come on, 5 frakking minutes of screen time? You have to admit that is an absurdly low amount of screen-time for the antagonist. Nero wasn't a character he was little more than a plot-device.

I just finished watching Year of Hell, and I'm actually willing to applaud Voyager's writers for making Annorax such an interesting and well-developed antagonist. They made me feel the tragedy of a man who was destroying billions of lives for his own selfish purposes, and I felt as bad for him as for the people whose lives he destroyed. Nero is a joke in comparison.

Actually, Nero is a joke anyway.

 

[Qonos]

It is not a matter of how long Eric Bana was on screen. I found him to be an effective villain who had a presence in the movie even when he was not on screen. Every action he did the cast had to react to. He showed he did not need to be ultra hands on because his Crew respected him, and carried out his orders. If a captain has to be super hands on with a ton of crew around him, how effective is his leading ability. His motives were shown pretty well through his actions. He said what he needed to say and he was utterly psychotic when he did not get what he wanted. And I picked all that up from 5 minutes of Screen time.

Thank you very much. Why not actually watch a movie instead of always looking with a critical eye at it. It is not called Suspension of Disbelief to just sit there, PAY ATTENTION TO THE STORY instead of what the johns on level 12 look like in the enterprise. That is what later viewing is for. I went and saw a move, watched a movie, not looking for anything more than to pass time watching a movie with a woman I love and I was thouroughly entertained by the movie. The only thing that took me out of the movie was the theater was frakking antartica cold,.